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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 905 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 05:26:15 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 04:23:16 PM
You should read the book of Job, even those God loves the most can end up suffering in the worst ways imaginable. God sometimes stay silent or does not outwardly care about the suffering of the most saintly people under Him. That is because He wants them to accuмulate as many merits as possible in heaven.

God always provides, yes. And not necessarily in a way that one can see with their own eyes. Otherwise He wouldn't be God.
God said very clearly that unless you are baptised in water you cannot be saved. God said very clearly that he would not destroy the earth again by flood.


God is not a man, that he should lie, nor as the son of man, that he should be changed. Hath he said then, and will he not do? hath he spoken, and will he not fulfill?
[Numbers 23:19]
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 05:30:41 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 04:33:00 PM
Not to mention the 3 greatest theologians in Church history (St Augustine, St Aquinas, St Liguori) unanimously agree on BOD/BOB.

From what I can see, those believing in the BOD/BOB error do not bother studying theology. They only read a bunch of random scattered texts and truncate them in order to justify their theological errors.
Wrong. St Augustine changed his opinion after dealing with the Pelagian heretics. Saying we should never say that God would allow any of His elect to die before receiving the sacrament of the Mediator.

Many of the saints who came after only professed BoD because they were going along with the other saints who ultimately thought St Augustine taught BoD.

St Thomas was speculating how it could work in theory and St Alphonsus even mentioned a baptism of tears.

St Gregory nαzιunzus denied BoD but you guys never care for that fact.

Saints are not infallible which is why I posted those quotes from the Popes and councils, they hold more authority than opinions from Saints, but too many trads are attached to human respect for Saints and other men, ignoring councils and Popes who speak with authority and ignoring the saints who denied BoD.
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Offline Lazarus

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 06:08:37 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on Yesterday at 05:30:41 PM
Wrong. St Augustine changed his opinion after dealing with the Pelagian heretics. Saying we should never say that God would allow any of His elect to die before receiving the sacrament of the Mediator.

Many of the saints who came after only professed BoD because they were going along with the other saints who ultimately thought St Augustine taught BoD.

St Thomas was speculating how it could work in theory and St Alphonsus even mentioned a baptism of tears.

St Gregory nαzιunzus denied BoD but you guys never care for that fact.

Saints are not infallible which is why I posted those quotes from the Popes and councils, they hold more authority than opinions from Saints, but too many trads are attached to human respect for Saints and other men, ignoring councils and Popes who speak with authority and ignoring the saints who denied BoD.
1)You are twisting what St Augustine said, considering that he argued that God could confer the baptism invisibly to those who needed it. Which means exactly what you said, that God would never allow one of His elect to die before getting this sacrament, since He would surely give it to them before death. Again, you are truncating what the Saints said, out of context. I am sick, and tired, of your tendency to do so. 

2)Who gave the title of Church doctor to St Aquinas/Liguori? Do you think, if those men were so prone to error, they would have been bestowed with such a title? Can you use your critical mind for at least 30 seconds? Among the thousands of theologians in the history of the Church, why would those two get the title of Doctor if they could make such a basic mistake?

3)Learn your place. 
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