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Author Topic: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism  (Read 573 times)

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Online DecemRationis

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #15 on: Today at 08:20:59 AM »
What you're defending is the honor of catechumens who were saved via their faith alone, Trent condemned this idea. I suggest that you avoid doing that from now on.

St. Aiphonsus de Liquori tells us that there were approximately eleven million martyrs in the first three centuries of the Church's history. Out of these eleven million martyrs, and the thousands of others which have been recorded since by various Church historians, there are about ten cases in which the martyrs are reported to have died without baptism. In not one of these cases can we assert or conclude positively that these persons were not baptized.
Stubborn,

See my Brownson quote to OA. Trent beat O A Brownson (1803-1876) by a couple of hundred years or so . . . means of communication must have been exxxtttrrreeemmmeeelllyyy slow back then, since he publicly advanced in print a teaching so contrary to Trent.

Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #16 on: Today at 09:30:21 AM »
I am not here to argue anything, I am only sharing some things that people here may have never seen before. 

Pope Gregory XVI, in the Bull of Canonization of St. Alphonsus Liguori declared the following:



This passage may be read here, on p. 584:  

https://archive.org/details/lifeofstalphonsu00np/page/584/mode/2up


"An Exposition and Defence of All the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined By the Sacred Council of Trent". By St. Alphonsus Liguori, p.128-129. This is from google books.






Account of the martyrdom of St. Genesius, Victories of the Martyrs, by St. Alphonsus Liguori, p. 291-292

https://archive.org/details/VictoriesOfTheMartyrs/page/n295/mode/2up






Online Stubborn

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Re: The Desire/Intention/Wish/Will to Receive Baptism
« Reply #17 on: Today at 10:48:31 AM »
Stubborn,

See my Brownson quote to OA. Trent beat O A Brownson (1803-1876) by a couple of hundred years or so . . . means of communication must have been exxxtttrrreeemmmeeelllyyy slow back then, since he publicly advanced in print a teaching so contrary to Trent.

As St. Thomas, the greatest of all the theologians was wrong about the Immaculate Conception, the same is to be said about all the others who taught salvation through faith alone, which is a BOD - we know they were wrong because of the teaching of Trent. 
Points to consider.......

1) It is with certainty of faith that we know that you, me, and all those who have ever been and ever will be baptized, are baptized via the Divine Providence. Almighty God *always* provides us with the time to do it, and the water for doing it, and the minister for doing it - always.

2) As such, you must believe that if God can arrange for you and everyone else to be baptized, that it is by that very same Providence that He can and will arrange for anyone else who desires or is willing to receive it and enter the Church.

3) When God made the sacrament a requirement for heaven, God bound Himself to provide the sacrament to all who desire it - even if that means a miracle - remember: what is a miracle to God? Nothing, nothing at all.

4) The only way a BOD works, is when God purposely withdraws His providence from the event. this means that with the divine providence, a BOD fails, without it, it works. 

5) The condemned doctrine says that the recipient of a BOD saves themself, this idea is known as salvation through faith alone, which again, the Church condemns.

6) There is no getting around any of this if a BOD is to actually be salvific. You have got to take God *completely* out of the formula, which is what the doctrine of a BOD does.