What a relief!  I'm sure everyone rotting in Hell as a result of V2 will be so happy to discover it was all just a big mistake!

If the apostolic authority granted to and exercised by the Supreme Pontiff, in union with the Fathers, can "approve, decree and establish" that which is erroneous, contrary to faith and morals, to souls, etc., WHAT GOOD IS IT???!?!?! 

If Papal Infallibility ONLY means the Supreme Pontiff cannot say -- in a docuмent whose supposedly-binding nature cannot possibly be mistaken -- the Holy Trinity is really just TWO Persons, for example, that ain't much of a promise and protection.

Again, I've never heard a satisfactory response to this and we're not going to.

What a relief!  I'm sure everyone rotting in Hell as a result of V2 will be so happy to discover it was all just a big mistake!

The real 'problem' under discussion here is Catholicism itself. God lay down His religion in the Scriptures, but had to put His Church, His religion, in the hands of men who would run His Church and guide the flock in it. One of these rules was that His apostles, His Cardinals and Bishops would chose who was to be the reigning Pope, to be known as the Vicar of Christ. The Flock were also told that they must follow and do what his Pope, Cardinals, Bishops and priests tell them. This 'system' worked well until the middle of the Nineteenth century, when those men who ran God's Church began to submit to modern thought and secular scientism. But the rule that the flock must follow their popes, cardinals, bishops and priests was still a rule all Catholics had to obey to remain Catholic. By then, Catholic theology had become so complicated that few lay Catholics on Earth had the knowledge to know what was completely orthodox ot what was modernist (one day it is Catholic, the next day it is different) coming from the hierarchy from 1820 onwards. Who in their struggle to live in the cities, towns or countryside heard or read Pope St Pius X's encyclicals warning all that Modernists were spreading doctrinal error among them? Very few. At best the flock trusted their pope, cardinal, bishop and priest to guide them to keep their faith and get to heaven.

Some of us know that anti-Catholic Modernism got worse and worse in the 20th century. Nevertheless, and I was around as an altar-boy since 1948, listening to sermons, serving at retreats etc, and like everyone else was totally unaware what was going on as we approached Vatican II time. The Catholic rule even then was that our Pope was the one who lay down the laws of the Church and that he was protected by the Holy Ghost. Not one Catholic I knew at the time questioned what was going on. Oh yes, I know there were those with enough knowledge of the Catholic faith who knew there were errors creeping into Catholic belief that were causing big changes as to what was Catholic or not. But your average Mass-goer hadn’t a clue and went along with their popes and their new Mass.

‘What a relief!  I'm sure everyone rotting in Hell as a result of V2 will be so happy to discover it was all just a big mistake!’ writes Bodeens above in response to earlier posts.
As I said above, most simple Catholics who went along with Vatican II were simply following their hierarchy as had been the practice since Jesus founded Catholicism. They were not informed theologians able to sort out the endless theological aspects of the faith and even if they could they dared not ignore what they were obliged to do as Catholics; follow their popes and hierarchy.

Now we all know God will be our judge. He knows the majority of the flock were lured into errors because they followed their pope and hierarchy. Their errors then were material, not formal, and no God would send them to hell for obeying a pope of the Catholic Church unaware of what was really going on. If we went along with this, then we could say God told us to obey the man He said was to represent Him in His Church. In other words God was to blame. Yes, the knowledgeable Modernists could well be guilty of formal heresy and end up in Hell. God will be the judge of that.

To have lived as a Catholic from 1948, it took me many years after Vatican II to realise what went on.  It was only when we rediscovered the Mass of Trent again that we got the grace to see that Vatican II introduced a Modernist Catholicism into the world. With Pope Francis now openly showing their new religion, many more are seeing that the Catholicism established up to Vatican I had been put aside to the cellars and Mass-rocks and that a new one had been put in place. Such a thing, we 1948s believed could not happen, but it did. A real question that should be debated is how did the Holy Ghost allow this to happen? Didn't He say it never could?

Yes Marion, there are many prophesies in Scripture that predict man will fall under the temptations of the Devil. But there are none that say directly that the Church itself could be hijacked by a corrupt hierarchy.

The only such a prediction came from La Salette. Heaven’s awareness of the freemasonic revolution against Christ and His Church was made known first to a French nun Sister Marie de St Pierre (1816-1848) and then by her request at La Salette in France on Sept. 19, 1846, where a crowned Mother of God appeared to two children. Among the most poignant predictions was that: ‘Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.’ Three popes, Pius IX, Leo XIII and Pius X, approved this apparition, but the message was met with furious opposition from many bishops as one can imagine.

Thirty-three years after the apparition, on 20th August 1879, a basilica at La Salette was consecrated, and the following day, August 21st, the Archbishop of Paris in France (representing the Melchisedech Priesthood and Melchisedech Kingship) crowned the statue of the Virgin of La Salette according to the prescription of the sacred Congregation of Rites. Heaven’s awareness, it seems, was given new impetus.

On the very same day as this coronation, 21st August 1879, as only heaven can co-ordinate, there occurred an active but silent apparition at Knock,  a small town in west Connaught, Ireland, a place ‘ruggedly inhospitable and not conducive for agriculture.’ 

On that miserable wet night, in a meadow field outside the gable-end of the church of St John the Baptist, a small church ‘dedicated to all the nations of the world,’ there occurred an active but silent (i.e., the figures were speaking but could not be heard) apparition at Knock, that small town in Connaught. The apparition, which lit the immediate area with a brilliant light, included magnificent images of St Joseph (Powers-Priesthood-Tiara), the Virgin Mary, Saint John the Evangelist (Powers-Priesthood-Tiara), and a forlorn Lamb on an empty altar (Holy Sacrifice of the Mass) surrounded by angels, it of course representing Christ and the Sacrifice of the Catholic.

I can give you more information on Knock if any want it.

But getting back to the only direct prophesy that Rome would become the seat of the antichrist, when I first heard that I was shocked and thought it must mean something else, not the Church of Rome. But I have lived to see it was the hierarchy of Rome that Our Lady of La Salette spoke of. Nevertheless, you don't hear much of that prophesy among Catholics today, not like Fatima that has taken over all apparitions.

I can give you more information on Knock if any want it.

But getting back to the only direct prophesy that Rome would become the seat of the antichrist, when I first heard that I was shocked and thought it must mean something else, not the Church of Rome. But I have lived to see it was the hierarchy of Rome that Our Lady of La Salette spoke of. Nevertheless, you don't hear much of that prophesy among Catholics today, not like Fatima that has taken over all apparitions.

I would like to see more info on Knock. You're right about Fatima taking over all apparitions. It's all too easy to forget about the others. 

Before one can possibly try to understand such ‘messages’ from heaven, one must fully accept and comprehend the war declared by God in Genesis 3:15 between the Christ and the antichrist, and know how this battle of ‘Principalities and Powers’ is carried out on a temporal and spiritual plane. The message of Knock, we suspect, was, like the Book of Revelation, a warning to the flock of the current state of this war as it was in 1879 and warning of what was to happen in the future.

It is obvious the apparition at Knock cannot be interpreted by way of theological norms. Its purpose therefore is allegorical, coming as it did in the wake of the continuous attacks on Europe’s Christian Kingships and the Papal States in the early years of the 19th century; most by then replaced by Masonic republics, democracies etc., all now under the sole protection of Mary in Heaven. It is also a fact that the only place where the word allegory is mentioned in Scripture is in St Paul’s Letter to the Galatians: ‘things are said by an allegory’ (Gal. 4:24). We also know that it was the Galatians who were advised that if an angel from heaven should preach a different gospel to that which they had been taught, to reject it. (Gal 1:8)

    Scholars on the origin of European peoples tell us that a fair number of the old and true Galatians (Celts) had migrated from southern Europe to the northern states including Ireland and settled there. Then along came Oliver Cromwell with his infamous reform in the sixteenth century. Cromwell, that docuмented Satanist who conquered in the name of God, was the first to deliberately usurp the divine right of kings by purging his own in England and replacing him with the beginnings of freemasonic ‘democracy,’ where men alone and not kings subservient to God would rule the world according to their own laws. Cromwell, who committed untold atrocities against the Catholic Irish, was a champion of what he called ‘religious liberty,’ but this liberty did not include traditional Catholicism and certainly not the traditional Latin Mass which he hated. Thus began the Penal times for Irish Catholics. One of these laws was against the traditional Catholic Mass, with penalties as severe as death to priests caught saying it.

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It was then Cromwell ordered all Catholics of Ireland to decide their destiny: ‘To hell or to Connaught.’ Choosing Connaught to death, or Protestantism, some Catholics moved into this desolate, infertile and barren west of Ireland where they continued to be persecuted in any event. It was their descendants, some of those Celts who resided there from early times that occupied Knock in 1879. Weren’t these people some of the same flock that St Paul had advised ‘things are said by allegory,’ a place worthy to convey to the world a message wrapped in allegory as happened at Knock.

Final Interpretation

God never leaves us ignorant. It is plain to see that God chose Knock to warn Catholics of the greatest battle of all to come, the attempt to try to eliminate the Latin Mass of all ages by replacing it with one similar to that of Oliver Cromwell. Nowhere else in the world or in history after Holy Thursday was there mention of an attack on this Mass of all time. The Message is delivered by St John the Evangelist, author of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Prophecy; the Book predicting a great apostasy incorporating the beast, the forces of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.  Given the Mass is the source of grace that enables Catholics to keep the faith and thus keep Christianity alive and well, there is no doubt Knock was warning of an attack on the Mass and its priesthood to come.

There is of course yet another means by which the interpretation of Knock can be known, by way of time itself. In 1884, five years after the apparition at Knock, Pope Leo XIII had an experience of his own, hearing the Lord allowing the Devil 75 to 100 years to try to destroy Catholicism on Earth. Unlike those trying to interpret the message of knock in 1879, and for many years after that, we now live in times well past those 75 to 100 years and can now see for ourselves what happened the Catholic Mass of Knock and its priesthood, the same Mass that Oliver Cromwell had tried to suppress and substitute with one more based on Protestant lines, a Mass the Irish were warned by proprio motu in 1649 not to be deceived by. We refer of course to the Latin Mass of Trent and Knock in 1879, a Mass defended like so in 1570:

“Quo Primum” is a papal bull decreed by Pope St. Pius V on July 14, 1570, which set in stone for all time the exactness of the holy sacrifice of the Mass to be said in the mother tongue of the Church. To quote his instruction:  " itshall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to read Masses according to any formula other than that of this Missal published by Us; ...” Another: “... which shall have the force of law in perpetuity, We order and enjoin under pain of Our displeasure that nothing be added to Our newly published Missal, nothing omitted therefrom, and nothing whatsoever altered therein.” Another: “In the case of those resident in other parts of the world it shall be excommunication ‘latae sententiae’ and all other penalties at Our discretion ...” Finally: “Should any person venture to do so, let him understand that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”

While not set in ‘infallible stone,’ the intent of this pope was to secure the unity the Latin Mass gave to Catholics worldwide. By then Protestantism with its own forms of ‘service’ was spreading throughout Europe. Now while very minor additions were added to the Catholic Mass right up to 1962 by different popes, the Latin Mass remained the same, its graces, instructions and Holy Communion helping millions to keep the faith and drawing many, many vocations to the priesthood.
   
On 28 October 1958 however, at age 76, Cardinal Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli was elected pope taking the name Pope John; yes John, the first to do so in 500 years. Accordingly he became Pope John XXIII, the same as the last Pope John XXIII (1410-1415) who was declared an anti-pope by the Church. Soon after his election John XXIII called a council of the Church, Vatican II. He said the call came to him in a dream. Pope John promised a ‘renewal’ in the Church that was flourishing at the time. History records tradition was ‘thrown’ out of Vatican II to be replaced by ‘renewal,’ especially by way of ecuмenism, not a renewed conversion of non-Catholics but an acceptance of non-Catholicism. As regards the Mass, well it too was to be renewed to make it more compatible to Protestants and others. To begin with, it was proposed the language of the Mass be changed from the Latin to the vernacular, the language of peoples all around the world. Cardinal Ottaviani said of this move:

‘To abandon liturgical tradition which for centuries was both the sign and the pledge of unity of worship (and to replace it with another which cannot but be a sign of division by virtue of the countless liberties simplicity authorised, and which teems with insinuations or manifest errors against the integrity of the Catholic religion) is, we feel in conscience bound to proclaim an incalculable error.’ 

Everything Ottaviani said came to pass. What was once the same Mass worldwide, signifying a unity in Catholicism, became a potpourri similar to a Protestant meal service, while other such Masses were adopted to accommodate such things from clowns to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs. Needless to say, millions abandoned such graceless Novus Ordos, priests left their duties in their droves, and vocations dried up, seminaries, convents etc., emptied and Catholicism lost all its influence in the world.
    Nevertheless, the traditional Latin Mass of Trent and Pope Pius V survived in the era of the Novus Ordo. A society of priests, the SSPX, was founded with the intention of keeping the Latin Mass and traditional teachings of the Church alive. Their Masses and traditional teachings were sough out by Catholics shocked by ‘renewed’ doctrines and Masses of Vatican II. 

Thank you Cassini, for the five posts describing the Knock apparition. I read all five thoroughly and with great interest. There's much food for thought in them. I'll probably have questions which I'll post later.