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Offline cassini

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That pagan obelisk IN ROME
« on: December 07, 2025, 10:22:45 AM »
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    • https://www.lifesitenews.com/episodes/if-we-lose-rome-we-lose-the-fight/?utm_source=daily-world-2025-12-06&utm_medium=email

    Watching this video reminded me of that OBELISK in St Peter's Square. So I made the comment below. Before reading it last paragraph below, here is the story of it you should know

    As a sign of its power in the world, pagan Rome transported many Egyptian monuments and artefacts for display throughout their city, more than any other conquering powers in the world. Obelisks were deemed ideal for this purpose. One such obelisk was the giant made out of solid granite, climbing 25 metres high and weighing in at over 320 tons and whose history showed it was made for ancient Egypt’s most sacred city Anu, known to the Greeks as Heliopolis, meaning ‘The City of the Sun,’ a city that had at its centre this heliocentric Sun Temple. This obelisk was unusual in that no hieroglyphics were written on it. The story goes that in 38AD, the tyrant cannibalistic pagan Emperor Caligula (12-41AD) ordered this obelisk be brought to Rome by ship and placed in the Vatican circus, a site where Christians were killed and sacrificed to demons. St Peter was martyred on this very spot thus giving the place eternal notoriety.

    With the advent of Constantine the Great (272-337AD) and his concessions to Christianity throughout his empire and especially in the ancient city of Rome, the Emperor Constantine decided to allow this Vatican site to become the home of Catholicism, a special place to start its own spiritual and institutional empire. The great Basilica of St Peter’s rose from the ground here over the centuries, and other superb buildings were created for the business of running the Church. As for the obelisk of Heliopolis, well, while still on the site, providentially, it became redundant and faded into obscurity on some waste ground.


    Andrew is right below. In fact Rome, as represented as the Catholic Church was lost when Pope Sixtus V (1585-1590), named ‘the last of the Renaissance Popes,’ moved the special giant Heliopolis obelisk to the square in front of St Peter’s. Throughout this video we see that pagan obelisk dominating all. This pagan symbol of their sun worship, it representing the phallus, should not be at the centre of Christendom, no, it should be a crucifix or a magnificent statue of Jesus - such as the one on the mountain in Brazil representing Christianity. But there is more to this story. In 1655, the then Pope, Alexander VII, commissioned the now famous Bernini to redesign St Peter’s Square. Bernini then filled the space with a large eight-rayed sun wheel design – a symbol of Ishtar. At the very centre of the larger wheel there was then created an inner four-pointed sun-wheel, the same symbol as found on the altar-stone in the temple of Baal. In the Old Testament we read where Bel or Baal led the Israelites away from God many times. Recall in 1616 and 1633 heliocentrism was condemned as formal heresy. ROME, from 1757 to 1835 and thereafter, for the first time in the history of the Church, popes began to adopt and promote a secular story of Creation, the heliocentrism depicted in St Peter's Square, changing the meaning of Scripture to the one condemned as formal heresy in 1616. That began the modernism Lifesite is now fighting. So, unless you know the cause, you cannot change it.
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #1 on: December 07, 2025, 01:37:31 PM »
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    • I The church has always had a history of repurposing pagan symbols and redirecting them to the Christian ethos. The obelisk specifically was consecrated and a piece of the cross was placed in it to symbolize Christ superiority over the pagan Gods. Considering the history of the division between team Satan and Jesus’s church it’s hard to assume they retain their original meanings. The meanings are preserved to say…….. Christ wins. The victory is His. It’s the spoils of war. I used to use them as arguments against the validity of the Catholic Church, but perhaps your point is valid. That is the same time period that sparked the “ reformation” the most destructive period in church history. Maybe God allowed it to happen because of the slow creep of satan flowing in. It’s hard to defend an evil object in a place consecrated to God. When the church is operating as it should it’s much easier to defend 🤷‍♂️ it seems like the monument burning in America to get rid of it. It’s such a messed up time to be alive! Ha! 
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 05:45:08 AM »
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    • The story goes, to ‘Christianise’ the obelisk if such a vulgar symbolic thing could ever be Christianised, Pope Nicholas V  thought of placing the four Evangelists in bronze at its base and Jesus with a golden cross on the top.  Pope Nicholas V died before he could do this. Pope Sixtus V’s intention, so they say, differed, from the obelisk being a ‘needle pointing to heaven’ to one of a sign or display of the temporal power that the Church had at the time. On this occasion, the Pope decided to place horses around its base rather than the four Evangelists that Nicholas V intended to do. He also omitted the Christ figure on top envisaged by his predecessor, leaving instead what were regarded as remnants of the true cross in the bronze sphere already at the top of the pedestal. To this he added a star over three mountains, his own personal family crest, and finally on top, a golden cross.
    After the installation of the obelisk in 1586, a scandalous exercise we are led to believe, people being evicted out of their homes and properties to accommodate the new location (see Talisman), Pope Sixtus V decided it best to exorcise it and this was done with great liturgical aplomb. But all the blessings Rome could give this thing could not undo its original sun-god phallic symbolism. The irony of it all was that by placing a cross on the top of the obelisk in Rome, they actually recreated a more definitive representation of it when in the ‘City of the Sun,’ Anu-Heliopolis, the very place the symbolic phallic cut rock originally came from, for it too had a cross on top of it. All that was missing of the original site was a circle around its base with divisions of eight marked within it, ‘the standard pagan hieroglyphic indicator of a city.’
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 06:00:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on December 07, 2025, 01:37:31 PM
    I The church has always had a history of repurposing pagan symbols and redirecting them to the Christian ethos. 

    Be careful Michael, this is the very same false reasoning that was applied to Christmas day coming up soon..

    Incarnation Day is 25th March. Christians celebrate the birth of Christ on the 25th December, fixed days set in the calendar, ‘whilst the whole liturgical cycle has, every year, to be changed and remodelled to yield that ever varying day, which is to be the feast of the Resurrection.’ Abbot Guéranger goes on to say the four weeks of our preparation in Advent before they reach the 25th day of the month of December are in the image of the four thousand years since the creation of the universe that Genesis tells us preceded the great coming of Jesus Christ. He chose to rise from the dead after ‘three’ days, a Sunday, the day light was created visible on Earth. Christmas day however, is different to others, it falling on all the days of the week in turn so that its holiness may ‘cleanse and rid them all of the curse that Adam’s sin had put upon them.’ ‘This day is referenced not to the divisions of time marked out by God himself, but to the course of that great luminary that gives light to the world, because it gives light and warmth. Jesus our Saviour, the Light of the World, was born when the night of the idolatry and crime was at its darkest; and the day of His birth, the 25th December, is that on which the sun/Son begins to gain His ascendancy over the reign of gloomy night, to show the world His triumph of brightness.’  All the above days surely support the days of Genesis were literal days?

    “On this Day which the Lord had made,’ says St Gregory of Nyssa, ‘darkness decreases and light increases, and night is driven back again. No, brethren, it is not by chance, nor by any created will, that this natural change begins on the day when He shows himself in the brightness of his coming, which is the spiritual Life of the world.... Nature seems to me to say; Know, O Man, that under the things which I show thee Mysteries lie concealed. Hast thou not seen the night, that had grown so long, suddenly checked?’--- Abbot Guéranger: The Liturgical Year.

    St Augustine had said ‘The day He chose was that on which the light begins to increase. It typifies the work of Christ, who renews our interior day by day. For the eternal Creator having willed to be born in time, his Birthday would necessarily be in harmony with the rest of creation.’ Guéranger then addresses those who dare scoff at the divine plan as having its origin in the pagan feast of the sun on the winter solstice that occurs days earlier, on Dec. 21/22. ‘In their shallow erudition they conclude that a Religion could not be divinely instituted, which has certain rites or customs originating in an analogy to certain phenomena of this world; they deny what Revelation asserts, namely, that God only created the world for the sake of his Christ and his Church.’   
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 07:05:31 AM »
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    • Michael Hoffman covers much of the obelisk story in his book, "The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome". These obelisks, that had been pulled down by the early Christians were re erected permanently in Rome during the time of the Medici popes. 

    These 
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 07:35:57 AM »
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    • Michael Hoffman covers much of the obelisk story in his book, "The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome". These obelisks, that had been pulled down by the early Christians, were re erected permanently in Rome during the time of the Medici popes. 

    These are the same popes that permitted the installation of the the mosaic of Hermes Trismegistus in the cathedral of Siena, the decorating of the papal apartments with the same Hermes Trismegistus, allowed Marcilio Ficini, Johannes Reuchlin and Pico dela Mirandolla to publish works promoting a cabalist 'enrichment' to Christian doctrine.

    There are a good number of megalithic menhirs in France that have been Christianised, but in these cases there is no doubt that they were reworked to replace the previous pagan obelisk. 

    In the context of Rome, we cannot see the same dynamic. French catholics weren't publishing cabalist humanist works at the same time or decorating their cathedrals with Hermes Trismegistus, a syncretic greco-egyptian mystic. There is no doubt that these christianised menhirs are what they claim to be. 




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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 09:18:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on Yesterday at 06:00:23 AM

    Be careful Michael, this is the very same false reasoning that was applied to Christmas day coming up soon..

    Incarnation Day is 25th March. Christians celebrate the birth of Christ on the 25th December, fixed days set in the calendar, ‘whilst the whole liturgical cycle has, every year, to be changed and remodelled to yield that ever varying day, which is to be the feast of the Resurrection.’ Abbot Guéranger goes on to say the four weeks of our preparation in Advent before they reach the 25th day of the month of December are in the image of the four thousand years since the creation of the universe that Genesis tells us preceded the great coming of Jesus Christ. He chose to rise from the dead after ‘three’ days, a Sunday, the day light was created visible on Earth. Christmas day however, is different to others, it falling on all the days of the week in turn so that its holiness may ‘cleanse and rid them all of the curse that Adam’s sin had put upon them.’ ‘This day is referenced not to the divisions of time marked out by God himself, but to the course of that great luminary that gives light to the world, because it gives light and warmth. Jesus our Saviour, the Light of the World, was born when the night of the idolatry and crime was at its darkest; and the day of His birth, the 25th December, is that on which the sun/Son begins to gain His ascendancy over the reign of gloomy night, to show the world His triumph of brightness.’ All the above days surely support the days of Genesis were literal days?

    “On this Day which the Lord had made,’ says St Gregory of Nyssa, ‘darkness decreases and light increases, and night is driven back again. No, brethren, it is not by chance, nor by any created will, that this natural change begins on the day when He shows himself in the brightness of his coming, which is the spiritual Life of the world.... Nature seems to me to say; Know, O Man, that under the things which I show thee Mysteries lie concealed. Hast thou not seen the night, that had grown so long, suddenly checked?’--- Abbot Guéranger: The Liturgical Year.

    St Augustine had said ‘The day He chose was that on which the light begins to increase. It typifies the work of Christ, who renews our interior day by day. For the eternal Creator having willed to be born in time, his Birthday would necessarily be in harmony with the rest of creation.’ Guéranger then addresses those who dare scoff at the divine plan as having its origin in the pagan feast of the sun on the winter solstice that occurs days earlier, on Dec. 21/22. ‘In their shallow erudition they conclude that a Religion could not be divinely instituted, which has certain rites or customs originating in an analogy to certain phenomena of this world; they deny what Revelation asserts, namely, that God only created the world for the sake of his Christ and his Church.’  
    These are the same false accusations the Protestants use. It is the Protestants that come into a foreign nation, declare every one amalek and wipe out all who disagree and force their puritan ethos on a a said people. Catholics never did that. They would come in and find the little truth they could in your culture, something as small as light reigning over darkness, something as simple as the days getting longer, aka something the “pagan” could
    relate to, and stick the gospel on top of it both philosophicaly and literally. All that said there is still a massive amount of evidence Jesus Christ was born in late December. Obviously the calendar hadn’t changed yet but the equivalent was close. Next you will be getting into eostre and blaming it on us when that never apeared until the kjv popularized a Germanic festival! These are Protestant arguments that have failed to hold up to evidence and history. And mostly take the churches good nature and use it against us. We don’t declare the world
    amalek!!! We save them! 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 09:29:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on Yesterday at 09:18:48 AM
    All that said there is still a massive amount of evidence Jesus Christ was born in late December.
    Disagree.  There are a few mystics who have explained that the day of March 25 is one of the holiest days of the year.

    March 25 - the day Adam was created.
    March 25 - The feast of the Annunciation.  (Our Lord, the new Adam, was announced to the world)
    December 25 - exactly 9 months after the Annunciation.
    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)

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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 10:20:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on Yesterday at 09:29:43 AM
    Disagree.  There are a few mystics who have explained that the day of March 25 is one of the holiest days of the year.

    March 25 - the day Adam was created.
    March 25 - The feast of the Annunciation.  (Our Lord, the new Adam, was announced to the world)
    December 25 - exactly 9 months after the Annunciation.
    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)
    John Chrysostom disagrees! 
    https://earlychurchtexts.com/public/john_chrysostom_homily_in_diem_natalem_domini_nostri_jesu_christi.htm

    Hippolytus of Rome (c. 200 AD)
    disagrees! 
     In his Commentary on Daniel, Hippolytus wrote: “For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25, a Wednesday…” → This is one of the earliest explicit Christian references to December 25 as Christ’s birthday.


    Obviously the entire early church agreed enough to set the date once you get up to Augustine around 380ad. They certainly didn’t just pull it out of their hat at that time. 
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 10:34:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on Yesterday at 09:29:43 AM
    Disagree.  There are a few mystics who have explained that the day of March 25 is one of the holiest days of the year.

    March 25 - the day Adam was created.
    March 25 - The feast of the Annunciation.  (Our Lord, the new Adam, was announced to the world)
    December 25 - exactly 9 months after the Annunciation.
    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)
    December 25 - exactly 9 months after the Annunciation.

    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)

    this makes the conception march 25 and the birthday December 25!!! 😵‍💫 what am I missing here?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 11:02:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on Yesterday at 10:34:17 AM
    December 25 - exactly 9 months after the Annunciation.

    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)

    this makes the conception march 25 and the birthday December 25!!! 😵‍💫 what am I missing here?
    My bad.  Mea culpa!  I read your post wrong.  I totally agree with you.  There's massive evidence of Dec 25.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 12:04:54 PM »
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    • Well said Michael

    St Augustine had said ‘The day He chose was that on which the light begins to increase. It typifies the work of Christ, who renews our interior day by day. For the eternal Creator having willed to be born in time, his Birthday would necessarily be in harmony with the rest of creation.’
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    Online Mat183

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 01:02:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on Yesterday at 10:34:17 AM

    March 25 - Good Friday (Our Lord, as the new Adam, redeems the human race)

    There is a pious Catholic tradition that holds that Christ was crucified where Adam's skull was buried at Golgotha (which means "place of the skull"); hence the skull of Adam we find under Jesus' feet on old Catholic crucifixes.  By extension of the tradition is held that the Tree of Knowledge where man (the old Adam) fell was the same place where Christ (the new Adam) was raised up.
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: That pagan obelisk IN ROME
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 01:34:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on Yesterday at 12:04:54 PM
    Well said Michael

    St Augustine had said ‘The day He chose was that on which the light begins to increase. It typifies the work of Christ, who renews our interior day by day. For the eternal Creator having willed to be born in time, his Birthday would necessarily be in harmony with the rest of creation.’
    For the eternal Creator having willed to be born in time, his Birthday would necessarily be in harmony with the rest of creation.’


    this implies exactly what we are saying! You assume all cultures have 0 credibility in their worship of the creation itself. They knew more about the earth and the heavens then than we do now. You can’t just throw out what was true about the culture you are trying to correct. You have to honor truth no matter who says it and offer them the fullness of truth that is the Catholic doctrine. Adolph Hitler said a lot of things that were true. What Protestants do is throw out everything and off their truth. No one owns truth. So instead of telling these people everything they thought was nonsense and fraudulent the Catholic way has always been to honor truth no matter who speaks it! Can you get that concept? It has happened in every culture that has accepted Jesus Christ. A prime example is our lady of Guadalupe. She embodies pieces of the Aztec religion as she shows up to them and puts her son in place of their dragon. She didn’t obliterates their culture she consecrated it. If you do not understand this concept you’re probably not Catholic. Your more of a puritans.
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