Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Supporting Zionism?  (Read 2643 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Trinity

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3233
  • Reputation: +190/-0
  • Gender: Female
Supporting Zionism?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 08:13:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Our Lord was teaching and explaining at the age of 12.  Obviously the religious leaders were well off the path.  I don't see the discrepancy between Jesus' righteous teaching and the Pharisees, etc, erroneous teaching in the same synogogue.  

    But in a way I have wondered that myself, because Jesus often said, "you have heard", and He quoted scripture to satan.  So the proper teaching was there, somewhere, although incomplete, but I think it was well on the way to being buried under the diabolical teachings of the тαℓмυd.  Some of this I am very fuzzy on, but I'm not fuzzy about them hating Jesus because He contradicted them.  What Judaism is today is the logical conclusion of the derailment they were already accomplishing when Jesus tried to set them straight.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Online gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8053
    • Reputation: +2482/-1109
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 09:57:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: dust-7
    If you want to say that - judaism - describes the post-temple or тαℓмυdic Judaism that came into existence partly to deny that the Messiah had come, I might agree. But to say that Our Lord taught against the Temple, and against the Law, would be to contradict Our Lord.


    The latter idea, in bold, has been nowhere expressed in this thread - until your own mentioning of it.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline dust-7

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 199
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 06:42:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Trinity

    But in a way I have wondered that myself, because Jesus often said, "you have heard", and He quoted scripture to satan.  So the proper teaching was there, somewhere, although incomplete, but I think it was well on the way to being buried under the diabolical teachings of the тαℓмυd.  


    The early Church was Jєωιѕн. There was actually a question, even debate, as you can read in The Acts, about extending the franchise of the chosen people to the gentiles. But such was the mandate from God. The тαℓмυd, instead, is the product of post-Temple Judaism; or whatever other word one would prefer. It is a more elaborate commentary on the Mishna and other things, being created shortly after the Roman destruction of the 2nd/Herod's Temple, but really apparently coming to fruition centuries later, primarily in Babylon (not the ancient city though), but also with works coming from Jerusalem. This could be considered the spiritual descendant of the Pharisaical writings of Our Lord's day and particularly as the тαℓмυd would attempt to explain or excuse the behavior of the same, and other sects, with regard to Our Lord. It's from the тαℓмυd where the Lubavitchers and their 'Education Days' and other official Congressional honors derive their Noahide Laws, apparently to be applied to gentiles when the 3rd Temple and new Sanhedrin are formed, which is the dream of many within Israel and without. And the TNK, or 'tanach', this new Jєωιѕн version of the Old Testament, as The Church had it, is corrupt in various places in an effort, clearly, to attack Our Lord, Jesus Christ, and deny various claims and prophecies by rewriting the old texts.

    Offline Trinity

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3233
    • Reputation: +190/-0
    • Gender: Female
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 07:04:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Agreed, except the тαℓмυd in oral form was already many years old when Jesus was born.  It was centuries later that they wrote it down, and I believe I read that they wrote it in such a way as to keep gentiles from understanding what they were saying.  Not surprising since they didn't have one good word to say about gentiles, and many bad words to say about Jesus and Mary.  
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline dust-7

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 199
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 07:56:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Trinity
    Agreed, except the тαℓмυd in oral form was already many years old when Jesus was born.  It was centuries later that they wrote it down, and I believe I read that they wrote it in such a way as to keep gentiles from understanding what they were saying.  


    Some might claim that. But it's generally understood that the тαℓмυd and Mishna, and the masoretic texts, post-date the destruction of the Temple, and certainly the Ascension of God.

    They clearly did have a bone to pick. But it was very much after the fact.


    Online gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8053
    • Reputation: +2482/-1109
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 08:28:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The traditions of men that made void the Word of God were not from post-70 A.D., etc.  Yes, there was even more elaborate and excessive codification of them, but they were 'part of the deal' for centuries.

    The tendency of the rabbis to pretend there was a second, unwritten revelation to Moses - which the rabbis alone safeguarded - was ingrained by the time of Our Lord.  That is why he blasts them for it.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline dust-7

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 199
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #21 on: July 16, 2007, 07:44:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    The traditions of men that made void the Word of God were not from post-70 A.D., etc.


    No one said that. The question had to do with the Mishna and тαℓмυd and the revised TNK. These post-date Our Lord's Ascension by many decades, even post-date the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem by the Roman legions responding to the Jєωιѕн revolt.

    As I said, they carry on the defense of the Temple priesthood and leadership in how they treated the great Promised Messiah of prophecy. What Our Lord condemned would apply equally to what post-Temple or тαℓмυdic Judaism created, as well, even moreso.

    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2842
    • Reputation: +2932/-517
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #22 on: July 29, 2007, 08:16:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Justice is served by an Israeli state. That doesn't mean that the Israelis will always be just. But the injustice is done more to them, in these times, than anything else.


    "Israeli state," as in 'secular Zionist state?'  Modern Israel got going in 1948 with a huge land grab and the driving out of at least 700,000 native Palestinians.  Emerging Israel was reported in the Western press as a tiny new state under seige by the reportedly much larger combined forces of the surrounding Arab nations.  However, such was not true.  Nascent new Israel, from my understanding, was stronger and better organized militarily from the very beginning.  They were stronger in the air and on the ground.  So, if "in these times," you are referring to new Israel's relatively short existence, I think that real history teaches that the latter has perpetrated injustice throughout its entire history.


    Offline dust-7

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 199
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #23 on: July 29, 2007, 09:30:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: hollingsworth

    Modern Israel got going in 1948 with a huge land grab and the driving out of at least 700,000 native Palestinians.  Emerging Israel was reported in the Western press as a tiny new state under seige by the reportedly much larger combined forces of the surrounding Arab nations.  However, such was not true.  


    It would have necessarily been the case, and as was seen in a number of wars.

    The mistake the 'zionists' made, in my opinion, was giving back the Sinai, or attempting 'land-for-peace' in any fashion at all. It merely encouraged further aggression against them.


    Quote from: hollingsworth

    I think that real history teaches that the latter has perpetrated injustice throughout its entire history.


    I don't deny the heretical sects, 'illuminati' or 'masonry' or other usurpation schemes aimed at particular monarchies, throughout history. People like to dismiss such as 'mere conspiracy'. They like to blame those defending themselves and paint the aggressors as 'victim's. I realize that. But sometimes cօռspιʀαcιҽs are also seen where there are none, or where those who not primarily Jєωιѕн were really pulling the strings.

    There is a sect, and secret societies, that have put forward ideas to a) destroy just society and b) introduce a sort of тαℓмυdic 'justice' in its place. No doubt. The TNK is falsified in certain passages. The тαℓмυd does not always preach justice. And there are those like the Lubavitchers who have very clear plans in mind should Israel ever rebuild the Temple and reinstate the Sandhedrin. In short, if you are a Protestant with 'Jews for Jesus', you better take a pretty good-sized group of bodyguards if in that time you plan a vacation in the Holy Land.

    But that time hasn't come. And I've known people who were Jєωιѕн from the Fairfax area of Los Angeles, decades ago, not a few transplanted from the east coast, hard working, generally good in business, mostly, proud of the Israeli Air Force, but not out to destroy the Faith, nor separate Church and state, nor sign some death warrant for someone working for Jews for Jesus, and so on. I realize there are these others. I've never personally met them. I've read about them. I've seen their photos. I've read their opinions. But those Jews I've met have always seemed to be, as they call them, menches.

    Maybe they were just putting on a front?

    In other words, there is no denying that Jews, and others, have been about the business of Revolution, for centuries. It has been concerted, planned, conspiratorial. The 'plan' has outlasted many of them, and is continued by the next generation, with some variation. Popes have often condemned this. Kings have had to fight this. But other Jews - and others - have fought this, or otherwise been indifferent to it. And I believe that many in Israel, at least some years ago when last I visited (and it's been a while), are not those attempting to corrupt, destroy, or bring down. I think they wish to build up, to create, to produce and constructively add to what they have been given. If too many of the 'whiners' have migrated to Israel, then it's a shame. If too many of the cloak and dagger conspirators have relocated to Israel, again, a shame.

    But I think the time to resist Israel is when there is just cause to do so. And now all aggression against them is unjust. Saddam's attacks were unjust. His threats of the 'bomb' were unjust. And those same today from Iran - are equally unjust, and must be opposed.

    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2842
    • Reputation: +2932/-517
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #24 on: July 30, 2007, 01:23:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I just go back to your original words:
    Quote
    Justice is served by an Israeli state
     The question of individual Jews, or regional blocks of Jews living here or elsewhere, and their interior motives and modi vivendi, is not at issue.  The focus here is the "state" of Israel.  I contend that NO justice is served by a Jєωιѕн state.  I look upon modern Israel as the main perpetrator of turmoil, unrest, and, yes, injustice, in the ME.  It is a government run by grasping, ruthless, unprincipled, prevaricating, Zionist ideologues, whose true  racist motives and program of territorial expansion are generally hidden or camouflaged to the world.  But actions should speak louder than propaganda.  
    That is not to say that I support the surrounding Islamic regimes, including Iraq and Iran.  Islam is inimical to Catholicism.  It has always been and will always be.  But these Islamic countries never posed a danger or security threat to the secular U.S. government and its peoples.  
    I think the jury is in on Iraq.  The groundwork laid in preparation for the destruction of that country  was done for, and on behalf of Israel.  The current alleged "nuclear threat" posed by Iran is Israeli-inspired and Israeli-generated, greatly intensified by U.S. and Euro-based Zionist propaganda organs.  The only nuclear threat in the ME is posed by the state of Israel.

    Online gladius_veritatis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 8053
    • Reputation: +2482/-1109
    • Gender: Male
    Supporting Zionism?
    « Reply #25 on: July 30, 2007, 01:37:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: dust-7
    But I think the time to resist Israel is when there is just cause to do so. And now all aggression against them is unjust.


    Israel is the supremely terrorist nation, mate.  Their very existence came about as a violation of justice, and it continues as such to this day.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."