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Author Topic: St. Joan of arc and feminism  (Read 6636 times)

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Offline Student of Qi

Re: St. Joan of arc and feminism
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2017, 09:55:15 AM »
Here is more food for thought:

I don't rightly remember what war it was... (WW2?) but Poland was being invaded by Russia and all their manpower was spent and destroyed on the battlefield. The atheistic Russian onslaught threatened to over-run Catholic Poland. In order to save their country from the pagans, young girls and older women picked up arms and defended their land, driving the Russians back, though with much blood shed.

Surely, St. Joan of Arc would have been an inspiration for some of these women (who were drafted?) to fight with all they had. If these women and girls had not sacrificed themselves, what horrid fate would have befallen their land? 
Also, what a humiliation for Russia to be beaten by women! Some men, huh? But that is what happens when a woman HAS to fight and has God on her side!


I think that in the case of both Joan of Arc and the women of Poland, it was a matter of preserving Faith, culture, and the safety of the Motherland.
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Offline jvk

Re: St. Joan of arc and feminism
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2017, 01:19:47 PM »
Quote from: Student of Qi on July 26, 2017, 09:55:15 AM
I think that in the case of both Joan of Arc and the women of Poland, it was a matter of preserving Faith, culture, and the safety of the Motherland.
I agree.  In wasn't about feminism, or equal rights, at all.  It's the evil in the modern world that has twisted the noble ideals of the past into the current feminist idealogy.
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Offline ClarkSmith

Re: St. Joan of arc and feminism
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2017, 06:12:07 PM »
Actually she chose male clothing for a very important reason and that was to protect her modesty. Men could have easily forced themselves on her if she wore female clothing. Female clothing is very delicate and certainly wouldn't hold up in an army camp. She always slept fully clothed. St Joan of Arc was a very pious woman. She abhorred  impurity.  She  famously chased off prostitutes and adulterers from the army's camp with her sword. Hardly a woman I would expect feminists to make an icon. A lot of groups try to claim Catholic saints. Even communist used Joan in their propaganda.   

Saint of Joan of Arc is the patron saint of soldiers because she was the greatest knight of all time. It is hard for many to believe that a small and delicate woman could be the greatest knight of all time. But God willed it and it was done. 

 
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Offline Nooseph Polten

Re: St. Joan of arc and feminism
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2017, 12:19:53 AM »
Quote from: jvk on July 26, 2017, 06:38:24 AM
What are you so grouchy about?  You took my reply completely out of context.

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have been so rude and sardonic. I just had a bad day, as is usual in my pathetic life. Please pray for me that it will get better someday. 

A patron saint is someone we can pray to, and ask for their intercession or protection.  For example, St. Gerard is the patron saint of expectant mothers.  Based on your logic, that means that men should then be able to become pregnant.  I don't think that's the case!

No, rather, expectant mothers pray for his intercession during difficult pregnancies because he has a special interest in their welfare.  Just as St Joan has a special interest in the protection of soldiers, it doesn't necessary follow that women should BE soldiers.  '

Good point, I'll admit.

St. Nicholas is the patron saint of children.  But that doesn't mean all children should act like holy, venerable Bishops.

St. Aloysius is the patron saint of youth.  So are they all to be altar boys?

Oh--another--St Barbara is a patron saint of one branch of the militia.  The Catholic soldiers in Ohio 100+ years ago used to wear her medals during battle, thus beseeching her protection.

St. Camillus is the patron saint of nurses.  He used to be a soldier.  That doesn't mean men should be nurses!

I'm sure there are many other patron saints whose roles cross over.  It doesn't mean that gender roles in society should cross over!  It just means that there are many saints in Heaven who would be glad to help us, no matter if we're men or women.   

Well it seems that St. Joan's gender role crossed over during her life, and it is glorified by her being patron saint of a similar role.

****
And as a side note, PLEASE do not think I'm a supporter of women's rights!  Or women in the military, or any of that disgusting stuff.

How can you justify not being a supporter of women in the military if SAINT Joan of Arc served in the military and was guided by God to do so, and is even patron saint of soldiers. And you even call it "disgusting stuff". How dare you!     I'm not trying to be rude here but I'm just giving you an example of how St Joan's case makes it very difficult to argue against feminism. I hope you see how confusing it is. 

 As a matter of principle on the matter, I'm not even registered to vote because I don't think that women should.  I think it's the men's job to choose the leaders of the society, the women's is to raise good, wise, devout, Catholic men who will choose good leaders.  

Again, I apologize for being rude and framing you as an advocate of liberal gender equality. Please don't think that I'm a total jerk. 
Replies are in bold.
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Offline Nooseph Polten

Re: St. Joan of arc and feminism
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2017, 12:42:25 AM »
Quote from: Student of Qi on July 26, 2017, 09:39:18 AM
My apologies for being a smartass, but that is certainly the way my words come out most of the time. Most especially so if they are printed as they are thought, without a proper draft and/or revision. In any case, that really is one sorry excuse of a post, isn't it? If only it could be deleted I would have!
I apologize for being a jerk about it, though. Thank you for being more patient with me than I was with you. 
Ok. I'll try to stay on topic.
So, what makes you thik that St. Joan is not an ideal soldier? Are you denying that she is? Personally, I believe her to be a good example of what qualities a soldier should have: Faith, Courage, Loyalty, Obedience.
  I'm simply saying that I don't think women are the ideal sex for soldiers or any such position in the military, and I don't think the impression should be given that they are. 
  Faith, to believe in God and the mission he gave her to do. Courage, to leave the safety and comforts of home for the battlefields at a tender age and lead armies when the men who should have been taking command refused to. Loyalty and Obediance, because she fought for her king and country when all the other "generals" wouldn't budge, took the cities she was ordered to and did everything for the common good of her soul, king and country, and refused anything to the contrary.

Just as the Jews lost their special position, which was taken by the Gentiles when they rejected Christ, so to wil men likely lose their place in life if they shirk their proper responsibility. St. Joan of Arc is probably more then just an example of whata soldier should be, she may even be a warning to the men of what displacement awaits them if they don't rise to the occasion.

Whatever the situation, I don't think it's natural for women to be soldiers. This is obvious when you think of some of the most basic biological differences between men and women. These differences don't change, and they were created by God for a reason.

What jvk said above about patron saints in the above post is pretty good. Another thing to consider is what it means to be a patron. Most often, in American English, the word is used to refer to one who gives support, which is usually of a monetary form. In this case, why should St. Joan not be a patron of soldiers? If one would pray for her intercession, maybe she can obtain for them the graces needed to be a good soldier. As a commanderess, soldier and Saint, why would she not be interested in helping her fellow Christian troops?

It was a good point, but I still think another reason in being a patron saint is to provide an ideal for which people can strive for in each particular role.
Replies are in bold.
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