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Author Topic: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life  (Read 9533 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2022, 01:59:18 PM »
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  • You're right, it could lead to that, but if it doesn't, it's a major win for us.

    I'm not talking about what it leads to, but, rather, what it means now, as articulated by Engel.  It basically "enshrines in law" (actually higher than law, in a SCOTUS legal principle) the notion that states are free to butcher unborn babies.  As a result, no federal law can override their state laws.  Nothing short of a Constitutional Amendment or yet another SCOTUS ruling overturning Dobbs (both of which are highly unlikely in the near future) can ban abortion across the country now.

    And it's probably a matter if time before the Left completely undo the PRACTICAL benefits of this ruling.  Companies are paying people to travel for abortion.  Blue States are EXPANDING abortion.  There's talk of setting up abortion clinics on federal government property (there's plenty of that in every state).  In the maps below, don't let the "white" space fool you.  If you look close enough, there are these red specs everywhere in every state ... just that they're really small given the scale of the map.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #91 on: July 08, 2022, 02:08:16 PM »
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  • To me this whole thing is analogous to the following situation.  We have a mass murderer who intends to kill 100 people.  But he shows up and someone persuades him to let 50 people go.  Then he slaughters the remaining 50.  And people praise him for his virtue.

    Jєωs and other powers that be who (make no mistake) allowed this ruling to go through, they let it go through for a reason and a purpose.

    Or, another way to look at it, the Vatican Modernists altered the words of consecration at the Mass "for you and for many" to invalidate the Mass.  Meanwhile they also invalidated Holy Orders.  Decades later, they changed the words of consecration back, but by that time, there were very few valid priests left to offer a valid Mass.

    Here they let up on abortion a little, but now the majority of the US have impaired (or destroyed) fertility due to the jab.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #92 on: July 08, 2022, 02:11:17 PM »
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  • And, another bit of information here about how they're working to undo the practical benefits.  So-called "Morning After" pills are classified as contraceptives, whereas they're actually abortifacients.  There was a huge run on these pills, to the point that most pharmacies had to limit how may a given customer could by.  So the pro-abortion types will simply be more careful (and spend a bit of extra money) to always take one of these the "morning after" they've fornicated.  So they'll just be forced to abort their babies earlier.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #93 on: July 08, 2022, 02:16:08 PM »
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  • They said the same thing about Roe...

    SCOTUS doesn't make laws; they interpret them. 

    And Roe WAS enshrined law and precedent for 50 years.  So maybe in another 50 years, Dobbs can be reversed too.

    Why do you keep repeating that same stupidity about SCOTUS not making laws?  That has absolutely no bearing on the problem.  Laying down a principle that states cannot be interfered with at the federal level in legislating to protect abortion is NOT legislation.

    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #94 on: July 08, 2022, 02:17:53 PM »
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  • I'm not talking about what it leads to, but, rather, what it means now, as articulated by Engel.  It basically "enshrines in law" (actually higher than law, in a SCOTUS legal principle) the notion that states are free to butcher unborn babies.  As a result, no federal law can override their state laws.  Nothing short of a Constitutional Amendment or yet another SCOTUS ruling overturning Dobbs (both of which are highly unlikely in the near future) can ban abortion across the country now.

    And it's probably a matter if time before the Left completely undo the PRACTICAL benefits of this ruling.  Companies are paying people to travel for abortion.  Blue States are EXPANDING abortion.  There's talk of setting up abortion clinics on federal government property (there's plenty of that in every state).  In the maps below, don't let the "white" space fool you.  If you look close enough, there are these red specs everywhere in every state ... just that they're really small given the scale of the map.


    What I'm trying to say is that you are right that the foundations are laid but it remains to be seen if they will be able to build upon them. For now, less babies will be sacrificed, in the future, maybe more will be because of it. We don't know yet.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #95 on: July 08, 2022, 02:20:28 PM »
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  • SCOTUS doesn't/can't rule about possibilities/future events.  It rules about today.  And today, there's no federal law either providing or prohibiting abortion...thus, it's a state issue.

    :facepalm:  SCOTUS present-day rulings, depending on how they're worded, can PRECLUDE future laws.  They lay down legal principles and precedents.  If laws are written after such a  decision that contradict those principles, then they are STRUCK DOWN based on the prior rulings.  There's nothing to preclude a federal law to ban abortion.  Problem is that, based on this precedent, it cannot trump STATE laws.  It would be like with marijuana, illegal at the federal level, but meaningless in the states that have legalized marijuana.  It would be toothless virtue signaling to win political points.  One effect it could have would be to preclude abortion clinics being set up on federal property, but that's as far as it could go in any practical terms.

    Offline Emile

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #96 on: July 08, 2022, 02:20:47 PM »
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  • It occurred to me looking while looking at the map that they might be able to set up abortion facilities on Indian Reservations, just like casinos.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #97 on: July 08, 2022, 02:25:11 PM »
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  • It occurred to me looking while looking at the map that they might be able to set up abortion facilities on Indian Reservations, just like casinos.

    That I'm not 100% sure of.  Indian Reservations, I don't think, are federal territories but are considered independent in many ways, especially when it comes to their being able to make their own laws independent of both state and federal law.  I suspect that the leaders / legislators of various Indian Reservations could likely vote to permit abortion even within the Red State that had otherwise banned it.  But, yes, that too could be a problem.  We could end up seeing people flocking to Indian Reservations for abortions just as they do today for casinos.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #98 on: July 08, 2022, 02:34:24 PM »
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  • Here's a decent discussion of the scenario with Indian reservations.  Most of the obstacles cited by CNN could be overcome if the feds (under Biden) would actually strengthen the autonomy of Indian Reservations and protect it with legislations ... and we know they'll try.  Only real obstacle would be the suggestion that many Indian Reservations (according to this article anyway) lean conservative.  It was evidently tried by one tribal leader in South Dakota when they tried to make abortion illegal, and that individual was impeached out of office over it by her own tribe.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/26/us/tribal-lands-abortion-safe-havens-roe-cec/index.html

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #99 on: July 08, 2022, 04:18:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    Laying down a principle that states cannot be interfered with at the federal level in legislating to protect abortion is NOT legislation.
    What you falsely define as a "principle" implies it cannot change.  This isn't catholicism, but law.  Laws change all the time.  A ruling is not a principal. 


    Rulings are based on the current laws.  Tomorrow, new laws can be passed and past rulings can become obsolete.


    Quote
    :facepalm: title=facepalm  SCOTUS present-day rulings, depending on how they're worded, can PRECLUDE future laws.  They lay down legal principles and precedents. 
    This is only true if there is a lack of legislation...or if the legislation isn't clear.


    You're basically arguing that SCOTUS is more powerful than Congress.  That's not the case at all.  

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #100 on: July 08, 2022, 05:27:29 PM »
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  • Yesterday I spoke to the head of our pro-life center (which I founded with her mother). She said phone calls to the hotline have quadrupled. I asked why and she said there is a great deal more "abortion hesitancy." They have heard more of the pro-life side and are questioning their decisions. (Also getting phone calls from crazed pro-aborts.)
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #101 on: July 09, 2022, 04:48:16 AM »
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  • :facepalm:  SCOTUS present-day rulings, depending on how they're worded, can PRECLUDE future laws.  They lay down legal principles and precedents.  If laws are written after such a  decision that contradict those principles, then they are STRUCK DOWN based on the prior rulings.  There's nothing to preclude a federal law to ban abortion.  Problem is that, based on this precedent, it cannot trump STATE laws.  It would be like with marijuana, illegal at the federal level, but meaningless in the states that have legalized marijuana.  It would be toothless virtue signaling to win political points.  One effect it could have would be to preclude abortion clinics being set up on federal property, but that's as far as it could go in any practical terms.
    They ruled that there is no right to abortion and that therefore it can be legislated upon. The stuff about letting the states legislate it was just a commentary on the diversity of state laws that would come into being without Roe v Wade blocking them. Congress absolutely can ban abortion at the federal level.

    Also a ruling that there is no right to abortion =/= a ruling that an unborn child has no right to life.

    Offline alaric

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #102 on: July 09, 2022, 05:12:01 AM »
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  • They ruled that there is no right to abortion and that therefore it can be legislated upon. The stuff about letting the states legislate it was just a commentary on the diversity of state laws that would come into being without Roe v Wade blocking them. Congress absolutely can ban abortion at the federal level.

    Also a ruling that there is no right to abortion =/= a ruling that an unborn child has no right to life.
    This is true. While the ruling in the Dobbs case is a step in the right direction, the reality is, is they are still doing NOTHING to protect innocent life from being snuffed out. There's no ruling that the unborn child has a RIGHT to LIVE. 

    The abortion mills are still churning out baby parts in most states, especially here in NY where the psychopath gov is handing out millions and passing insane legislation  to come here and murder you baby , all costs covered, their even referring to it as a form of "tourism", you know, come enjoy the state and see the sites while you butcher your child.

    California wants to murder the child after  IT'S BORN. Yea, they'll pay for you to come there too.

    This infanticide is going to bring the whole country down, that and sodomy. I've been saying it for years.

    The RvW repeal does little at this point, it's a gesture, eh, we can't officially say you have a "right" to murder children, but, hey, you go decide at the state level, you know, you do you.

    You think God is pleased with that bs?

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #103 on: August 02, 2022, 09:23:54 PM »
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  • So Lad was just vindicated in thinking overturning Roe was a disaster for pro-life. Kansas had a referendum on whether the ability to have an abortion would be taken out of the state constitution or not. It failed, meaning the ability to overturn abortion laws in the state gets harder. 

    If stark-red Kansas can vote against pro-life laws, then it will only get worse from here.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #104 on: August 02, 2022, 11:45:26 PM »
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  • 1) it proves that KS is not “stark red”.  2) revising constitutions is always hard.  3). Referendums are kinda pointless.  The legislature can do what it wants.