Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7

Author Topic: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life  (Read 9532 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 41860
  • Reputation: +23918/-4344
  • Gender: Male
SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
« on: May 04, 2022, 06:51:04 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • I threw this out there early on, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that the proposed SCOTUS ruling (as appears in the leaked Alito draft) would be an unmitigated disaster for Pro Life.

    With this ruling, which the Pro Life movement has emotionally lapped up as a great victory, unless it were reversed, there could never be federal law to prevent abortion.  By declaring that this issue belongs at the state level, the federal government can never interfere with the states' ability to LEGALIZE abortion.  We're already seeing a reaction among the Leftist states to make abortion more available ... from free abortion to setting up abortion "tourism," clinics on the border with adjacent states, proposed legislation to alllow abortion to be performed for residents of other states, etc.  I could see some of the states going hog wild so that, where abortion may have been illegal in the third trimester, or second, they're going to react in the other direction, taking advantage of their new SCOTUS-declared "rights" to legalize partial birth abortion and even infanticide.

    This ruling is an unmitigated disaster and the naive Pro Lifers have rejoiced too soon.

    And the Left (aka the Jєωs) have the apparatus to go state by state to legalize abortion even more than it has been.

    PS ... I believe that there's a reason that God allowed most of the Leftists to live on the coasts of the country, California, Oregon, Washingon on the West Coast, New York and Massachussetts and New England in general on the East.  I fully believe that God will swallow that evil into the Ocean when the chastisement comes.
    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #1 on: May 04, 2022, 06:52:40 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • What was actually needed was for SCOTUS to declare abortion unconstitutional, as it violates the very FIRST inalienable God-given right declare by the Constitution, the right to life.  [No, to the poster who claimed this, this is not "legislation from the bench" but interpretation of the Constitution.  It's not legislation from the bench to say that states cannot pass laws to permit murder.]
    Logged

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2127
    • Reputation: +1325/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #2 on: May 04, 2022, 07:22:01 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2022, 06:51:04 AM

    PS ... I believe that there's a reason that God allowed most of the Leftists to live on the coasts of the country, California, Oregon, Washingon on the West Coast, New York and Massachussetts and New England in general on the East.  I fully believe that God will swallow that evil into the Ocean when the chastisement comes.
    Pope John Paul II to a small group of Catholics in Germany in 1980 and as quoted by the German magazine Stimme des Glaubens regarding the Third Secret of Fatima.
    Quote
    "It should be sufficient for all Christians to know this much - a message in which it is said that the oceans will flood entire sections of the earth; that, from one moment to the other, millions of people will perish... there is no longer any point in really wanting to publish this secret message.
     
    Many want to know merely out of curiosity, or because of their taste for sensationalism, but they forget that 'to know' implies for them a responsibility. It is dangerous to want to satisfy one's curiosity only, if one is convinced that we can do nothing against a catastrophe that has been predicted."
     


    Logged

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8316
    • Reputation: +4706/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #3 on: May 04, 2022, 07:34:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I disagree. It isn't meant to eliminate abortion entirely, but what it does do is remove the proximate occasion of sin from taxpayers whose Federal taxes are supporting this evil practice (something you yourself considered not paying in another thread). If it is limited to the individual states, then the evil is contained (i.e. merely tolerated) in those Marxist "sanctuary states" while the rest of the nation bans and penalizes it outright. It even forces those die-hard Marxists to move out of "red states" to those Communist holes like California and Oregon.

    Furthermore, didn't we also have a recent tangent about the State outright banning things versus restricting them? Citing St. Thomas's toleration of brothels to vastly restrict the sɛҳuąƖ sins of Society as a whole? There's also the spiritual angle to this, as it allows the nation to become more aligned with God than Satan (no matter how incrementally), which is something I read from Savonarola recently talking about the ideal State.


    Quote
    a kingdom, the more spiritual it is,the stronger and better it will be, for,being nearer to God,its spirit participating more fully in the divine, it must of necessity be better,more stable,and more perfect.
    Aggeus, Sermon XIII

    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #4 on: May 04, 2022, 07:39:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • This is not about restricting or banning anything.  It's about the false legal principle that the states have a right to determine whether abortion is legal or not.

    States were already in the process of restricting abortion.  What this ruling does is to take it completely off the table that there could be a federal law banning abortion across the united states.  Unwittingly, it's a protection for states that want to make abortion illegal.
    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2022, 07:42:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on May 04, 2022, 07:34:14 AM
    If it is limited to the individual states, then the evil is contained (i.e. merely tolerated) in those Marxist "sanctuary states" while the rest of the nation bans and penalizes it outright.

    But it's not merely tolerating abortion in some states.  It is actively laying out the principle that the states have the right to keep abortion legal and that the federal government can not stop them.  That is incredibly dangerous and does more harm than good.

    ALREADY before this ruling, the states were allowed to pass anti-abortion legislation (Texas and others) that effectively outlawed abortion.  So then what does this ruling do on top of that?  Nothing, even from a practical perspective.  Really the only thing it accomplishes is to enshrine the principle that states can legalize abortion all they want.

    It's an unmitigated disaster for the Pro Life movement.  This absolutely undercuts Pro Life going forward, the the Pro Lifers are being duped into thinking this is a great victory.  These evil Satanists are quite clever.

    It is the textbook double-edged sword, and the Pro Life movement is going to be hacked up by the back edge of this thing.  Mark my words.  Before when states were methodically going one by one to outlaw abortion, they had the single-edged sword working for them as they were constantly cutting away in the direction of curtailing abortion.  Now the SCOTUS is making the sword double-edged so that the Satanic Leftist states will use the other edge of the sword to promote abortion even more.  Before there was hope that over time enough states could make abortion illegal to be able to pressure there to be federal laws against it.  But this SCOTUS ruling absolutely torpedos that.
    Logged

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8316
    • Reputation: +4706/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #6 on: May 04, 2022, 07:59:51 AM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
    • I'm sorry Lad, but I'm surprised that any Catholic would be opposed in any way to overturning Roe
    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8316
    • Reputation: +4706/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 08:07:39 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

    • Quote
    Before there was hope that over time enough states could make abortion illegal to be able to pressure there to be federal laws against it.  But this SCOTUS ruling absolutely torpedos that.
    I don't at all see how this can be the case when the angle that these Satanists have been pushing is that it is somehow in the Constitution that they have a "right" to murder babies. Overturning this shows that there is no such "right" in the Constitution, which is the realm of SCOTUS in the first place.


    And yes, this topic is also about banning things if you're opposition to this SCOTUS decision is rooted in the fact that we cannot ever ban abortion federally if they overturn Roe.
    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #8 on: May 04, 2022, 08:31:50 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Sorry, but the good-hearted Pro Life people are also weak of intellect and don't realize how the Satanists are outsmarting them at every turn.

    Under this ruling, nothing will happen ... for good.  Same states that are already in the process of passing anti-abortion legislation will be the ones where abortion is illegal under this ruling.

    As for the Liberal and even Moderate states, it's going to be THAT MUCH harder for Pro Lifers to get those to pass anti-abortion legislation.  These are going to double down and become even more radically pro-abortion (we're already seeing that).  Free abortions for all, companies like Amazon paying for people to travel out of state for abortions (more will join Amazon), "abortion tourism" in the works.  States where 3rd trimester abortion may be illegal will suddenly legalize that and make it legal up to partial birth.  This is being done to deliberately fire up the Pro-Abortionists.

    And this dashes all hopes for Pro Life to get federal legislation passed that would make it illegal across the country, since Alito et al. are effectively declaring that unconstitutional.  So Pro Life will have to go state by state (and good luck doing this in the Blue States).
    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #9 on: May 04, 2022, 08:36:57 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on May 04, 2022, 08:07:39 AM
    ... if they overturn Roe.

    This isn't JUST about overtuning Roe.  That would be great.  But Alito's opinion is declaring that the states can do what they want on the issue and that the federal government cannnot interfere.  There can be no federal law against abortion.

    And states were ALREADY one by one restricting abortion, and that was taking on momentum.  So this will merely energize the Pro-Abortionists to prevent the spread of Pro Life legislation to more states.

    This was a very calculated move by the Satanic Jєωs.

    Had they just not made any ruling, the trend of states quietly restricting and banning abortion would have continued with much less opposition than it'll be met with now.  Politicians in states that may have been thinking (tentatively) about vorting to restrict abortion will be intimidated by the hostile Left from doing so.  Nothing good will come of this in the practical order, and it actually serves the purposes of the Left.
    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #10 on: May 04, 2022, 08:40:15 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Pro Lifers have always been good hearted, but at the same time slow witted.  Our Lord said that we had to be wise as serpents to fight the enemy; having good hearts isn't enough to prevent getting outsmarted.
    Logged

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8316
    • Reputation: +4706/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #11 on: May 04, 2022, 08:51:51 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2022, 08:40:15 AM
    Pro Lifers have always been good hearted, but at the same time slow witted.  Our Lord said that we had to be wise as serpents to fight the enemy; having good hearts isn't enough to prevent getting outsmarted.
    Yes, the enemy is smart but we also need to take care not to OVERESTIMATE his pawns to the point that any good counteracting their plans is ultimately from them. "Every best gift, and every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of alteration."
    [James 1:17]

    It doesn't take a big brain or quick wit to accept a good as good and ultimately from God. We're being ensnared into inaction out of a implicit despair by looking at every possible good as yet another instrument of Satan and his lackeys. "But Satan is all-powerful, so what's the point?" attitude. I addressed my own distaste for this a while back when talking about truther obsessions with the occult.
    Logged
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4381
    • Reputation: +1627/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #12 on: May 04, 2022, 09:26:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2022, 06:51:04 AM
    I threw this out there early on, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that the proposed SCOTUS ruling (as appears in the leaked Alito draft) would be an unmitigated disaster for Pro Life.

    With this ruling, which the Pro Life movement has emotionally lapped up as a great victory, unless it were reversed, there could never be federal law to prevent abortion.  By declaring that this issue belongs at the state level, the federal government can never interfere with the states' ability to LEGALIZE abortion.  We're already seeing a reaction among the Leftist states to make abortion more available ... from free abortion to setting up abortion "tourism," clinics on the border with adjacent states, proposed legislation to alllow abortion to be performed for residents of other states, etc.  I could see some of the states going hog wild so that, where abortion may have been illegal in the third trimester, or second, they're going to react in the other direction, taking advantage of their new SCOTUS-declared "rights" to legalize partial birth abortion and even infanticide.

    This ruling is an unmitigated disaster and the naive Pro Lifers have rejoiced too soon.

    And the Left (aka the Jєωs) have the apparatus to go state by state to legalize abortion even more than it has been.

    PS ... I believe that there's a reason that God allowed most of the Leftists to live on the coasts of the country, California, Oregon, Washingon on the West Coast, New York and Massachussetts and New England in general on the East.  I fully believe that God will swallow that evil into the Ocean when the chastisement comes.

    What you say is a point well worth making, and, yes, returning the issue to the states is a problem, where there is sentiment in certain states for unrestricted access to abortion.  Still, though, the issue of abortion was eventually bound to go to the Supreme Court, and once that happens, there will eventually be a "High Noon moment", and this may be it.  The choices are then either to leave Roe v Wade as it is, find some other reason to challenge the constitutionality of abortion (and what would that be?), or to decide as Alito et al presumably have done.  Abortion is either addressed in the Constitution or it is not, and obviously it's not.  You can't make the Constitution say something that it doesn't (not that various parties haven't tried).  For that, you would have to amend the Constitution, and there doesn't seem to be any popular will to amend it WRT abortion in either direction.

    As for the "Moloch states" of the Northeast and the West Coast, I've already pretty much written them off as someplace I don't even visit anymore.  As a rule of thumb, if I'm not allowed to carry someplace, then I don't go to that place.  (Visiting overseas is obviously an exception to that, and I'm not willing to confine myself to the US for life, but sometimes you have to take the bad with the good, and besides, I wouldn't be there that long.  Couldn't afford it.)
    Logged

    Offline josefamenendez

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4421
    • Reputation: +2946/-199
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #13 on: May 04, 2022, 09:37:57 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • At least, if Roe is overturned, the pro-life states enacting laws will not be challenged and held unconstitutional . There will be states that will outlaw abortion. Then again there will be states that will be crazy "abortion" destinations. We will see abortion mills collecting  just over the borders of the pro-life states,  kind of like liquor stores and firework stands.
    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41860
    • Reputation: +23918/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SCOTUS ruling would be a disaster for Pro Life
    « Reply #14 on: May 04, 2022, 09:44:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on May 04, 2022, 09:26:27 AM
    The choices are then either to leave Roe v Wade as it is, find some other reason to challenge the constitutionality of abortion (and what would that be?), or to decide as Alito et al presumably have done.  Abortion is either addressed in the Constitution or it is not, and obviously it's not.

    Well, the REAL "choice" is to declare abortion as unconstitutional owing to the Constitution declaring that all have a right to life.  So, yes, it is addressed, implicitly in the right to life.  Roe ruled that it was addressed implicitly in the "Right to Privacy".  So that's another reason why this legal ruling is a dangerous precedent.  If you hold that any rights not EXPLICITLY mentioned in the Constitution are not in fact rights, then there's a huge slippery slope.  At that point, the states are free to interpret "life" as they choose, so then they could, for instance, declare that someone in a "vegetative state" or mentally retarded, etc. do not have true "life".  States could then legislate away what "life" is.  At some point there needs to be a proper definition of "Life" for what right to life means.
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
    « previous next »