I hope you are comprehensive with your principle, excluding most movies, television, books, architecture, or is it somehow just music (or performing arts in general?).

I don't go to the movies unless a good Catholic movie is playing. Most stuff of on tv is trash. I won't read books that I know are written by non-Christians, no.

It is true that the 60s were a reaction to the rigorism and conformity which came before

The 1950s were not "rigorist" or "conformist"

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Well think about this: The Beatles did cause some moral sickness.

Please don't get me wrong. The absolute craziness that accompanied the Beatles was at least irrational, and in some cases sinful. And the band themselves didn't like the hysteria. But this is not the first time musicians have been surrounded by something like this (which apparently was really thought of as a pathology):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania_%28phenomenon%29

I by no means think those guys were/are saints. I, however, think that the moral detriment comes from outside their music in most cases. Really, if your taste goes with it, they have very nice, interesting, and beautiful works of popular music. Try:

Yesterday


In My Life


Eleanor Rigby


She's Leaving Home


Fool on the Hill


Penny Lane


Blackbird


Something


Here Comes the Sun


Because


Let it Be


And I can go on. I don't find anything immoral or satanic here.

The only one of the above that is on my A rotation is Something. In My Life & Let It Be I listen to once in a while. MO is that the rest is a bore w/ the exception of Here Comes The Sun. There are some engineering defects in that which unfortunately has ruined the track.

Early Beatles is Tops and it's really not rock & roll-- although they certainly were the best at that when they did play it. John conceived of IWTHYH as 'American' & that would be a better description of their music-- at least b4 1966.

My other 2 Favs are the Beach Boys & Rascals & neither of them can be properly described as R & R either. Quote Brian Wilson  ' it's( BB music) not really R & R, but rather American music'.

Alright, beav.

You act as if conformity is a bad thing, when it is in fact individualism and freedom that are bad things.

??? Freedom is bad?

Galatians 4:31
So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free: by the freedom wherewith Christ has made us free.

How about a balance? Conformity in things in which we are bound, and freedom in things in which we can be free? The 50s were an extreme pendulum swing reaction to the destruction and displacement of the WWII period. It was needed in some sense, but the 50s were too rigid in general, and the youth were primed to break free. It was just one contributing factor.

Yes freedom is bad. Freedom comes from God himself but when abused is the most evil thing in this world. And the 60's happened because a whole generation of spoiled brats were influenced by Herbert Marcuse and the Frankfurt School.

Yes freedom is bad. Freedom comes from God himself but when abused is the most evil thing in this world. And the 60's happened because a whole generation of spoiled brats were influenced by Herbert Marcuse and the Frankfurt School.

...

The passage there is referring to being free from sin. Even Christ told us to "give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's." Christianity has a long history of support for monarchs and autocracies NOT freedom and democracy.

How far afield of the topic of the thread do you want to go? I don't need to debate you on this. Read Libertas if you want. And clearly you do not understand the 60s as a historical period. Sure there were many spoiled brats, but a lot of those "spoiled brats" were become fodder for world power in Vietnam. The 60s as reaction to the stuffy 50s is history 101.

Spoiled Youth, 1967, fighting for ...



a certain kind of conformity?

I understand that, of course. I never said that the license of the 60s was a good thing. I did point out that the 60s came in part because of the stuffy 50s, as an overcorrection. And extremes are held, like the 50s were the period of glory, when the Church thrived, Bing Crosby and all (which has been dubbed "Fiftiesism"). Obviously this is now remote from our main topic, so I'll leave it there.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

I know, but it proves my point that Lennon was anti-Christian. And quite frankly, The Beatles as a whole were.

Again, how does that factor into a given piece? There are many great works by non- or anti-Christians. If that comes into the actual music, then we can explore that. As far as I know, there are no Beatles songs that are anti-Christian.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote

Okay, then simply avoid the song, or read it in another light, which is quite easy.

I could probably read a lot of bad songs out there "in another light". That, of course, is a stupid idea.

Let It Be by Paul McCartney is a wonderful song that many have read as involving our Lady. McCartney said it referred to his mother, but didn't mind the understanding of it as our Lady. So not so stupid in some instances. Of course, in this instance the song is not immoral in the first place, it just gives the listener a fuller meaning.


Let it Be

When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree
There will be an answer, let it be
For though they may be parted, there is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

And when the night is cloudy there is still a light that shines on me
Shine until tomorrow, let it be
I wake up to the sound of music, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
There will be an answer, let it be
Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

I have heard that "mother mary" is not the BVM, but Marijuana  :smoke-pot:

yet a deception, if true....