Author Topic: RHYTHM: THE UNHAPPY COMPROMISE (Read 1833 times)

Marcelino · « **on:** September 28, 2012, 09:31:59 PM »

"RHYTHM: THE UNHAPPY COMPROMISE
Fr. Hugh Calkins, O.S.M.
Written in June 1948 for Integrity magazine, Fr. Hugh Calkins discusses the problems of Natural Family Planning (NFP), then known as the "Rhythm method". Angelus Press reprinted the article in Raising Your Children; The Integrity Magazine Series.'

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

Marcelino · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2012, 09:32:31 PM »

"The New Synthesis

What’s the answer to all this bogeyman propaganda about babies? It could be expressed in a word Vivant (let them live). One group of splendid parents in Milwaukee have taken that word as their slogan and the title of their magazine circulated among young married couples. It’s a vivid expression of the forgotten virtue of hope. God’s providence still rules the world. True Christians, mindful of their supernatural birth at Baptism, the growth of that life of grace through Mass, Sacraments and prayer know that hope not only springs eternal but it brings eternity as its reward. It devastates right here on earth the creeping paralysis of despair born of these hard times. It cures insecurity by abandoning itself to the constantly supporting arms of God. Married couples, so fearful of what to eat and wear with children arrived or coming, need frequent meditations on that famous sixth chapter of Matthew: "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His justice, and all these things shall be added unto you." Seeking His justice means doing His Will, doing it with hope in your heart that God will provide and reward generosity. He never is outdone in generosity, as we all should know from experience. Surprising how God fills your heart and life with pulsating affection of children, once you trust Him enough to have the children. Surprising how little warmth there is in the mink coat, the vacation, the television set, the car that you fought so hard for, while denying your arms the warm embrace of children. Or is all this surprising? God keeps His word."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

Marcelino · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2012, 09:36:07 PM »

"In many cases, Rhythm produces the neurosis. It made the "rejecting mother" type. She "got caught" with a pregnancy she had sedulously fled. The unwanted pregnancy results in the lonely, neurotic, unwanted child. Neurosis like this can increase sterility,"

"Some medical men assure us a wife’s desire for marital union is most vehement precisely during the fertile period. It appears the Jєωs followed a more natural procedure in abstaining during sterile periods, as the Book of Leviticus indicates. Even Dr. Ogino, the originator of the method, viewed the method primarily as a means of having children. "Rhythm in reverse," having relations on fertile days just to have children, is natural."

"Men not living a properly satisfactory sɛҳuąƖ life with wives, too much calendar restriction, are easy victims to feminine wiles outside the home. The coolness and jittery bickering caused by Rhythm is incalculable."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

Marcelino · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2012, 09:38:26 PM »

Angelus Press has the whole series from the 1940s!

http://angeluspress.org/SET-Integrity-1-2-3-4

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2012, 10:02:54 PM »

Interesting stuff. I'd be curious to know what percent of trad couples use periodic abstinence regularly, throughout marriage, to limit family size.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2012, 10:10:19 PM »

Here is how bad it has gotten in the N.O.

The quote below is from a woman who teaches Sympto-Thermo and Marquette method (and is also a catechist and RCIA sponsor) to couples in pre-cana.

"I would also like to add that the use of "grave cause or reason" when referring to the use of NFP is actually not the language of the Church. *I mention this because I am guilty of using this language myself.* The language the Church uses is "justae causae" which means just cause. Many extreme ideals have taken this to mean grave, but to be clear language is important. IF the Church meant to say "grave" I am confident that the message would be very clear. When you mix up language and meanings you can use that to justify your stance on anything. In fact the Church has never taught that NFP should only be used in the most extreme cases or in life or death situations. What qualifies as a just reason for spacing children is what God calls us to do: prayerfully decern with your spouse. I feel that we are doing more harm than good to our brothers and sisters when we misuse language and do not accurately communicate Church teachings; especially in the area of NFP. There is no easy one size fits all answer; if there was I am pretty sure the Catholic Church would make it very clear.

Even with the usage of NFP you are open to life in the sense that you could get pregnant on a day in which you thought you were infertile. Open to life means that if that does happen you will welcome the child. I have really found it unsettling that many people are using extreme language and beliefs that are not Church teaching and relaying them to newcomers or people seeking out answers. That turns people off; makes them feel guilty and shameful. That is not our call when we witness to others."

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2012, 10:12:56 PM »

NFP to an N.O. woman = responsible, intelligent, virtuous.

If trads are moving this direction, it is incredibly sad. I don't know the official trad teaching on any of this, but common senses says you are not open to life if month after month you are purposely avoiding during fertile times.

NFP is a near perfect science. You cannot advertise how effective it is and then say how open to life it is.

Marcelino · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2012, 03:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Marcelino

"In many cases, Rhythm produces the neurosis. It made the "rejecting mother" type. She "got caught" with a pregnancy she had sedulously fled. The unwanted pregnancy results in the lonely, neurotic, unwanted child."

"Some medical men assure us a wife’s desire for marital union is most vehement precisely during the fertile period. It appears the Jєωs followed a more natural procedure in abstaining during sterile periods, as the Book of Leviticus indicates. Even Dr. Ogino, the originator of the method, viewed the method primarily as a means of having children. "Rhythm in reverse," having relations on fertile days just to have children, is natural."

"Men not living a properly satisfactory sɛҳuąƖ life with wives, too much calendar restriction, are easy victims to feminine wiles outside the home. The coolness and jittery bickering caused by Rhythm is incalculable."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

This just blows me away. I can't even believe it's true; I mean I do, but it's just so entirely outrageous to my modern sensibilities. It's like it's from some freakish 50s world (that never existed, right!)

How can we live in a time when everything is so upside down? :sign-surrender:

Marcelino · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2012, 03:30:24 PM »

It seems like it just makes people miserable!

(another fine example of: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!)

Emerentiana · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:09:46 PM »

Quote from: Marcelino

Quote from: Marcelino
"In many cases, Rhythm produces the neurosis. It made the "rejecting mother" type. She "got caught" with a pregnancy she had sedulously fled. The unwanted pregnancy results in the lonely, neurotic, unwanted child."

"Some medical men assure us a wife’s desire for marital union is most vehement precisely during the fertile period. It appears the Jєωs followed a more natural procedure in abstaining during sterile periods, as the Book of Leviticus indicates. Even Dr. Ogino, the originator of the method, viewed the method primarily as a means of having children. "Rhythm in reverse," having relations on fertile days just to have children, is natural."

"Men not living a properly satisfactory sɛҳuąƖ life with wives, too much calendar restriction, are easy victims to feminine wiles outside the home. The coolness and jittery bickering caused by Rhythm is incalculable."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

This just blows me away. I can't even believe it's true; I mean I do, but it's just so entirely outrageous to my modern sensibilities. It's like it's from some freakish 50s world (that never existed, right!)

How can we live in a time when everything is so upside down? :sign-surrender:

Yeah, Marcellino, sopoken like a father of 12..........right?

:rolleyes:

You young guys have opinions on all marital subjects.

Well...........Im a mother of 10 who used the rythm method (with permission) with several of the last children.
It didnt work for me.
Maybe you young folk should know that :

1- The rythm method cannot be used unless there is a GRAVE reason for doing so.
2- This is determined by a PRIEST, whom the couple consults. If the priest determines that there is a grave reason (eg: life threatening illness during pG, or in general) he grants a DISPENSATION to the couple to practice Rhythm. This is the authoratative process in the church.

Also, you might want to know that a dispensation is required for a hysterectomy.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:31:34 PM »

Quote from: Emerentiana

Yeah, Marcellino, sopoken like a father of 12..........right? :rolleyes:
You young guys have opinions on all marital subjects.

Well...........Im a mother of 10 who used the rythm method (with permission) with several of the last children.
It didnt work for me.
Maybe you young folk should know that :

1- The rythm method cannot be used unless there is a GRAVE reason for doing so.
2- This is determined by a PRIEST, whom the couple consults. If the priest determines that there is a grave reason (eg: life threatening illness during pG, or in general) he grants a DISPENSATION to the couple to practice Rhythm. This is the authoratative process in the church.

Also, you might want to know that a dispensation is required for a hysterectomy.

I think it is good for the young men here to talk about these things. It takes time to digest the idea of possibly having a very large family someday.

I mentioned the dispensation thing on my group of Catholic mothers. Even the FSSP mom disagreed that was necessary. Everyone said that when they talked to a priest about it, they were told it was between the couple and God. That was not how it was explained to me, but there is not a lot of specific information available, I suppose for good reason.

I am glad these mothers aren't using contraception, but their families will be so small when they use such scientific methods of NFP.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:42:35 PM »

Quote from: Marcelino

Quote from: Marcelino
"In many cases, Rhythm produces the neurosis. It made the "rejecting mother" type. She "got caught" with a pregnancy she had sedulously fled. The unwanted pregnancy results in the lonely, neurotic, unwanted child."

"Some medical men assure us a wife’s desire for marital union is most vehement precisely during the fertile period. It appears the Jєωs followed a more natural procedure in abstaining during sterile periods, as the Book of Leviticus indicates. Even Dr. Ogino, the originator of the method, viewed the method primarily as a means of having children. "Rhythm in reverse," having relations on fertile days just to have children, is natural."

"Men not living a properly satisfactory sɛҳuąƖ life with wives, too much calendar restriction, are easy victims to feminine wiles outside the home. The coolness and jittery bickering caused by Rhythm is incalculable."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

This just blows me away. I can't even believe it's true; I mean I do, but it's just so entirely outrageous to my modern sensibilities. It's like it's from some freakish 50s world (that never existed, right!)

How can we live in a time when everything is so upside down? :sign-surrender:

The first quote with the neurosis comment is a bit odd.

The first sentence of second quote? I hate the word "duh" but, ummm...obviously this is how nature works. I don't think it takes a medical man to understand that.

The final quote is sadly humorous. Because I've heard and read so much about NFP, I have concluded it is completely unromantic. The marital act becomes a science experiment.

Get rid of those modern sensibilities Marcelino. :cool:

God just asks that married people live and let live. God gives us the easier answer, we just pretend it is the difficult one.

Right married people? Right?? :-)

Emerentiana · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:47:25 PM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

Quote from: Emerentiana

Yeah, Marcellino, sopoken like a father of 12..........right? :rolleyes:
You young guys have opinions on all marital subjects.

Well...........Im a mother of 10 who used the rythm method (with permission) with several of the last children.
It didnt work for me.
Maybe you young folk should know that :

1- The rythm method cannot be used unless there is a GRAVE reason for doing so.
2- This is determined by a PRIEST, whom the couple consults. If the priest determines that there is a grave reason (eg: life threatening illness during pG, or in general) he grants a DISPENSATION to the couple to practice Rhythm. This is the authoratative process in the church.

Also, you might want to know that a dispensation is required for a hysterectomy.

I think it is good for the young men here to talk about these things. It takes time to digest the idea of possibly having a very large family someday.

I mentioned the dispensation thing on my group of Catholic mothers. Even the FSSP mom disagreed that was necessary. Everyone said that when they talked to a priest about it, they were told it was between the couple and God. That was not how it was explained to me, but there is not a lot of specific information available, I suppose for good reason.

I am glad these mothers aren't using contraception, but their families will be so small when they use such scientific methods of NFP.

I think the young people need to know that guidence comes from PRIESTS, not private judgement. The absence of true traditional priests and proper teaching is the cause of this.
The NO would tell couples its between them and God. A true Catholic priest following the churche's teachings would review couples case by case.
The Traditional church teaching is that couples cannot use the rhythm, except for grave reasons. The gravity of each couple's situation is determined by the priest. If he feels the situation to use the rythm is warrented, he grants a dispensation to them. If not, he denies the use of rhythm.

Marcelino · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:50:34 PM »

Quote from: Emerentiana

Quote from: Marcelino
Quote from: Marcelino
"In many cases, Rhythm produces the neurosis. It made the "rejecting mother" type. She "got caught" with a pregnancy she had sedulously fled. The unwanted pregnancy results in the lonely, neurotic, unwanted child."

"Some medical men assure us a wife’s desire for marital union is most vehement precisely during the fertile period. It appears the Jєωs followed a more natural procedure in abstaining during sterile periods, as the Book of Leviticus indicates. Even Dr. Ogino, the originator of the method, viewed the method primarily as a means of having children. "Rhythm in reverse," having relations on fertile days just to have children, is natural."

"Men not living a properly satisfactory sɛҳuąƖ life with wives, too much calendar restriction, are easy victims to feminine wiles outside the home. The coolness and jittery bickering caused by Rhythm is incalculable."

http://www.sspx.org/against_sound_bites/rhythm_unhappy_compromise.htm

This just blows me away. I can't even believe it's true; I mean I do, but it's just so entirely outrageous to my modern sensibilities. It's like it's from some freakish 50s world (that never existed, right!)

How can we live in a time when everything is so upside down? :sign-surrender:

Yeah, Marcellino, sopoken like a father of 12..........right? :rolleyes:
You young guys have opinions on all marital subjects.

Well...........Im a mother of 10 who used the rythm method (with permission) with several of the last children.
It didnt work for me.
Maybe you young folk should know that :

1- The rythm method cannot be used unless there is a GRAVE reason for doing so.
2- This is determined by a PRIEST, whom the couple consults. If the priest determines that there is a grave reason (eg: life threatening illness during pG, or in general) he grants a DISPENSATION to the couple to practice Rhythm. This is the authoratative process in the church.

Also, you might want to know that a dispensation is required for a hysterectomy.

Your objections are addressed in the article. Perhaps you're experience has not been as authoritative as you seem to think.

Marcelino · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2012, 06:52:32 PM »

Conditions:

"So we can summarize the latest and best theological thought on the subject. The Church neither approves nor disapproves of the Rhythm Method as a system to be followed. The Church merely tolerates the use of this method. Tolerates indicates reluctant permission. And the Church only tolerates this method, when three definite factors are present. These three are: First, there is sufficiently serious reason for a given couple to use this method, sufficiently serious enough to justify side-stepping the first purpose of marriage; Second, both husband and wife are truly willing to follow the method —neither one can force the other to adopt this system; Third, the use of this method must not cause mortal sins against chastity nor become a proximate occasion of such sins. The breakdown of any one of those three factors makes the use of Rhythm sinful. So the correct attitude is this: The use of Rhythm is sometimes no sin, sometimes venial sin, sometimes mortal sin. Please stop saying, "Oh, it’s okay, the Church approves it.""