Author Topic: Revolt in the Pews  (Read 382 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Revolt in the Pews
« on: February 18, 2007, 04:03:56 PM »
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  • I don't know anything about this guy -- but apparently I got on his 'e-mail list" --

    I just wanted to post it because he recounts yet ANOTHER interesting anecdote of how the "powers that be" in the Church treat those fighting for tradition, dignity of worship, truth...


    God Bless, Friends in Christ.   I had also considered the subject, "The Calming of
    the Stormy Sea".    We must most assuredly pray and plea that Our Lord calm the
    'stormy sea' which might be compared to the current situation in Our Church.  
     
    If I read Our Church history correctly, the past instances of severe problems in Our
    Church were NEVER solved by the hierarchy - but - Our Lord answering the prayers
    and pleas of the faithful; the apostles in the boat in that instance and He would need
    to intercede for us now.    I firmly believe that we are now being offered an 'answer'
    to calm those seas but in addition to our prayers and pleas, however, it may take
    a revolt?
     
    It doesn't appear that we could do this with a short and concise message but I would
    hope to encourage you to act with commitment, to additional prayer and to respond
    in your own way in what we view as an 'answer'.
     
    On Monday, Feb 12, 2007, there were approximately 30-40 people attending what was
    announced as a 'workshop' regarding the Latin Mass community here in Tucson.
    At the 'moderator's table' were three Catholic priests, whom I would refer to as the
    moderator, the principal representative and a priest who assists at the community.
     
    At the introduction we were told that the discussion would be "open to any comments
    and participants could ask any questions".    Following the opening presentation, a
    participant expressed his deep concern about the 'various ceremonies of folk song
    masses, picnic masses', and a few other illustrations of past novus ordo masses.
    The moderator readily agreed and, that if time permitted, he might add '3 to 4
    hundred' more.
     
    Another participant asked the question, "Father, does the Catholic Church still teach
    that outside the Catholic Church, there is no salvation".   Receiving an affirmative
    Yes, he went on to explain his personal experiences with the 'implementation' of the
    G.I.R.M. at a local parish.  In essence, when he asked the three priests at that parish,
    ' why the Instructions were not being complied with', he was told that the 'hierarchy'
    would simply chose which of the Instructions would be - and those that were still being
    considered.   The moderator explained to him that many times 'other circumstances
     are present which we laity may not understand'.
     
    Then I, asked, "Father, in an earlier reply you asked the question, 'What can we do'
    (the tape recording has the question being asked twice in repetition) and would you
    then be accepting suggestions"?    I then went on to emphatically suggest that a beginning
    to the solution of the problem would be that "Vatican II should be eradicated, redacted,
    eliminated, erased, burnt and buried - along with all the changes it represented".
     
    Please take a moment to reflect upon the three previous paragraphs, 'open to
    comments/questions', 'complete agreement on the hundreds of past novus ordo
    masses' and the 'teaching that outside the Church - no salvation'.
     
    Following my emphatic suggestion, the principal representative of the community
    chose to respond in lieu of the moderator's responding.   What the participants then
    heard was a more emphatic response (which included pounding of the table!) that
    "The community would demand that all the teachings of Vatican II must be accepted-
    that all would need to accept the SANCTITY OF THE NOVUS ORDO   - AND -
    unless you accept that, YOU WOULD NOT BE CATHOLIC".
     
    Does Vatican II 'teach' Ecumenism?   Of course it does!  and how pray tell, does that
    teach  that - - 'outside the Church - there is no salvation'?
     
    Did 'Indian feather', 'hockey', 'basketball', 'folk dance', 'picnic', 'baptism of dolls', 'clown'
    etc, etc (300-400 others!) actually add sanctification to the Novus Ordo?    Dear Friends
    in Christ, we are unable to describe the utter depth of 'spiritual deprivation' that would
    have EVER permitted - 'sanctity' and the 'novus ordo' might  ever come to be used
    in the same positive  phrase.    'Sanctity'  and the 300-400 illustrations of the 'abuses of the
    N.O.'  are further APART than we are from the extremities of far outer space!
     
    My most earnest suggestion is that the time for 'meekness, patience and sheep-like
    acceptance' of the crumbs and left-overs of 'available facilities, available clergy and
    available times' for the Traditional Liturgy and Sacraments provided by our forefathers
    for the Salvation of our souls and the souls of our families, MUST BE OVER - - THE
    TIME IS OVER!
     
    We are in contact with an organization that would consider the application of Canon
    Law and Civil Law to insure our RIGHT AS CATHOLICS to the Traditional Liturgy and
    Sacraments.   We would need more commitment as Catholics - than money.   We
    must be willing to act as a group of Traditional Catholics.  We must be willing to deal
    with disappointment, chastisement and disagreement.    All of which we could handle
    with PRAYER, Pleadings and a complete acceptance of the Will of Our Lord.
     
    Use word of mouth, the telephone, the internet and mail to pass the word.    We would
    anticipate an urgent plea to the 'hierarchy' for a truly open meeting that would result in
    at least ONE sanctuary in the Tucson area being DEDICATED EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY
    AND WHOLLY TO THE CONDUCT OF THE TRADITIONAL LITURGY AND SACRAMENTS!
    You might expect that task to be formidable?   Accept our caution that it will likely not be
    accomplished with 'lip service'.    Our intent is to replicate Gideon's Army!
     
    Will our 'spiritual starvation' for the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of our forefathers
    and of the Communion of Saints not DRIVE us to act?
     
    In view of the debacle of the 'workshop' described above, is it at all possible that the
    PRIMARY purpose of the Latin Mass community is to generate funds for the financial
    problems of the Diocese?
     
    If our experiences at the 'workshop' are indicative of the others who were present,
    could there have been a more vivid illustration of the hypocrisy of the teachings of
    Vatican II, of the myriad multitude of abuses of the fraudulent liturgy known as the Novus
    Ordo and that almost the entire effort of the 'hierarchy' of the counterfeit church is being
    directed toward the 'salvation of the properties of the church' and almost none
    whatsoever toward 'SALUS ANIMARUM SUPREMA LEX' - 'Supreme law is the
    salvation of souls'?
     
    You may chose to accept my effort as a 'hod carrier'.   I offer to help carry the 'mortar'
    and it will eventually be up to a multitude responding that will 'lay the bricks' which
    would rebuild our crumbling Church.     God Willing and Directing our efforts might
    yet - in our lifetime -  'Instaurare Omina in Christo' - restore all things in Christ!
     
    God Bless, JMJ, pray for us, hod carrier, leo
     
    Leo Kimminau
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    Offline gilbertgea

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    Revolt in the Pews
    « Reply #1 on: February 18, 2007, 08:47:22 PM »
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  • This appears to be more 'bottom-up', revolutionary, nonsense.

    Grass roots activism is not going to work.  The only thing that will work is for the Pope to act like a pope and re-order the Church from the top-down.

    The only thing we can do is continue to maintain Catholic tradition and pray for our hierarchy and especially the Pope.


    Offline Matthew

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    Revolt in the Pews
    « Reply #2 on: February 18, 2007, 08:55:45 PM »
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  • I agree.

    Everyone wants to be the one who "starts something" -- oh darn, I guess they'll have to consent to be interviewed by the mass media and everything. I guess they'll have to cast humility aside as they tell the world (in so many words) "it was all my idea".

    No, I'll stick with giving out advice that the Church came up with -- so if it works, I can't take any credit.

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Revolt in the Pews
    « Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 12:22:47 PM »
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  • Here's an e-mail I got from the same guy, today.


    God Bless.    I will reluctantly publish this to several who I pray might be
    interested.    I ask your prayers that I might accept this as a penance and
    as a  'Badge of honor and courage' that I willingly accept in the name of
    MY PARTNERS,  - Jesus, Mary and Joseph - - and St Padre Pio.
     
    I also offer it as evidence of the 'Christian Charity' of the 'new' church if one
     would dare to criticize 'Vatican II, the Novus Ordo and the alteration
    and adaptation of the rubrics of the 1962 Latin Missal'.    I have removed the
    names of the two priests involved (XXXX & YYYY) - otherwise,  it is the e mail
    that I received today.
    __________________________________
     
    Dear Leo...I will be celebrating the 6:30 am Mass on Ash Wednesday...I have been told very firmly that I am not to administer Holy Communion to you.  You see...I have been placed in the middle where I do not wish to be and have had to be the one to tell you of Father XXXX's decision...I wish he would have told you himself, but I did not wish to hurt you on Ash Wednesday.   Please do talk to Father XXXX about his decision....May Padre Pio bless you in this suffering....Father YYYYY.
    ________________________
     
    God Bless - and help me, JMJ, pray for us, hod carrier, leo
     
    Leo Kimminau
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