Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Graehame on March 27, 2012, 06:05:25 PM
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I’m the 58 year-old head of an extended family of traditionalist Catholics-- 3 sons and their wives and fiancees, politically very conservative-- who are attempting to prepare for the temporary or long-term breakdown of civilization. What we're looking for is an individual, family, or community that either possesses or is in the process of acquiring a remote retreat and requires 1 or more people to live there to perform security and caretaker duties. We are interested in correspondence to explore bartering our services in exchange for a few acres of land. Structures are not necessary-- we'll build them.
Our particular concerns stem from gov’t. expansionism [the gov’t. now thinks they can spy on people (Patriot Act), arrest and detain people on mere suspicion of wrongdoing (NDAA), and now even kill American citizens on the basis of such suspicion (public statement of Att'y. Gen. Eric Holder on 5 Mar.)], the imminent collapse of the European Union, the suspension of T-bond purchases by foreign buyers, and/or mid- to long-term interruptions in the food and oil supply, leading to an economic collapse in the U.S.; apocalyptic considerations (End Times prophecy), the risk of epidemic disease, 1 or more supercatastrophes occurring over a brief period of time, etc., and the effect any of this will have on nuclear power plants (loss of personnel leading to a compromise of the spent fuel rods in the containment pond).
What we bring to the table-- I have 12 years of experience as a U.S. Army officer with a Top Secret clearance, and a lifetime of wilderness survival experience all over the world. I and my sons for the past 16 years have spent a summer every 2 or 3 years prospecting in southeastern Alaska. Between the 4 of us we have limited skills in the mechanical and maintenance areas (automotive, small engine, and light welding), extensive skills in construction (2 of my sons have worked as building contractors), animal husbandry (horses, cattle, goats, pigs, chickens, and turkeys), hunting and commercial-scale fishing (including skinning, dressing, butchering, and storing meat and fish), computer networking (more than enough to maintain a computer intranet in a grid-down situation for as long as the spare parts hold out), and the ability to construct and operate wood gasifiers to provide electrical power to a small community indefinitely. I have also managed a small security company in southern Michigan, so I thoroughly understand the procedures and professional obligations of a security contractor. We also possess an extensive survival library, a library of 19th Century technology, a good stockpile of heirloom seeds, and of course firearms and ammunition. As for our character, 1 thing that we share above all is integrity. Our word is our bond. Our preferred areas are southeastern Alaska and the Idaho-Montana-Wyoming area, although other sufficiently remote areas will be considered. My e-mail is graehame at hotmail dot com.
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You have posted on the right internet forum and you certainly seem skilled up.
Best of luck. I have alternative skills and alternative plans. None of us know how things will change, slowly or quickly. All that we know for certain is that change will come because change is always happening. Black Swans are notoriously hard to predict and like throwing a pack of cards in the air it is impossible to know which way they will fall. Any plan needs to be able to cope with all the scenarios you list being wrong or fatally flawed.
Being a land owning or even food producing person in 1930s Russia/Ukraine put you are deadly risk of death through starvation or deportation to Siberia. Almost counter-intuitive.
It's not hard to imagine Obama or someone like him scapegoating homesteaders. Look at Waco. The people in power can do anything they like.
My plans revolve around working out who has the power in the changed world and working out what they need and how I can provide it (at a profit thereby making an income for myself) and therefore become a necessary part of the new political reality. If there is no way I can do that and remain moral then I'd just have to die.
But that was sure to happen anyway.
The breakdown of the Soviet Union is about the best model we have for modern times. A new elite very quickly establishes a new law and order. Food for thought.
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Additional advice: be hidden in plain sight, never give away your identity on-line willingly and whatever you do, make it look normal and boring. You should know that they will be looking at movement patterns, browsing habits, communications logs, anything they can gather to figure out which civilians are interesting and which are not.
Perhaps being in the US at all is not good, actually. But wherever you go, make it a holiday destination or something, but then some place further from there make your retreat. You can't really hide, so just wear social camouflage.
Don't be interesting!
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ggreg & Maizar-- Thank you both for your kind words.
ggreg-- "Any plan needs to be able to cope with all the scenarios you list being wrong or fatally flawed."
Good idea in principle, but of course impossible in practice. We're neither trying to plan for "everything" nor for eternity. We're simply trying to get a plan in place to cover some of the most likely scenarios over the next 2 to 3 generations, that's also flexible enough to cover a few of the unlikely ones. Better to be prepped for something than to be unprepped for everything.
"Being a land owning or even food producing person in 1930s Russia/Ukraine put you are deadly risk of death through starvation or deportation to Siberia. Almost counter-intuitive."
If things go in that direction-- which I admit is a possibility-- then no one's preps will be adequate. Which is why I listed southeast Alaska at the top of our list. It's a roadless area, sufficiently remote & off the grid for a small community to literally not exist as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
"Look at Waco. The people in power can do anything they like."
An excellent point. Which is why we need to avoid at all costs becoming another Waco.
"My plans revolve around working out who has the power in the changed world and working out what they need and how I can provide it (at a profit thereby making an income for myself) and therefore become a necessary part of the new political reality. If there is no way I can do that and remain moral then I'd just have to die."
Let's examine that for a moment. If "the new political reality" is oppressive-- & if it isn't then this conversation becomes rather pointless-- then by definition you can't become part of it without sacrificing your integrity, your morality, or both. Nor would you want to. Moreover, we're witnessing a greater & greater centralization of power. Those who hold it have already reached the point where they don't "need" anything that you or I can provide. I therefore can't accept your approach.
My thinking on this is that I can get my family far enough off the grid, & adequately self-sufficient in terms of skills & resources, for us to be overlooked while the new power structure-- if there is one-- consolidates its position. And if chaos ensues in the absence of a new power structure-- as I suspect that it might-- then to enable us to survive that period & to emerge on the other side in reasonably good shape.
...and Maizar-- "...be hidden in plain sight..."
That advice works moderately well for urbanites & suburbanites who are unable to relocate. But I believe that getting entirely off the grid & achieving a degree of self-sufficiency in a truly remote area is a superior strategy. We're prepared to do that both psychologically & in terms of our skill set, but we're hampered by funding.
"...never give away your identity on-line..."
Hard to build a network with 100% OPSEC. I believe that the value of a network makes it worthwhile to compromise security, provided you do it rarely & judiciously.
"...whatever you do, make it look normal and boring."
Excellent advice. I have an old Army buddy who lives by that motto, & keeps me constantly reminded of it.
"...they will be looking at movement patterns, browsing habits, communications logs, anything they can gather..."
...and unfortunately, with the advent of computer technology & miniaturization, "they" can now examine & correlate vastly more information than they could even 5 or 10 years ago. In the years to come it will only get worse. That's the most troubling thing about RFID chips, the coming Real ID program, GPS tracking of cell phones & vehicles, urban surveillance cameras, ultra-small surveillance drones, & all the rest-- that "they" now have the ability to actually examine & correlate all that information.
"Perhaps being in the US at all is not good, actually."
It isn't. Just better than all the alternatives.
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Don't be interesting!
You need to follow this advice. Since I've gotten here I've probably read more of your posts than anybody elses. :wink:
I've read that using Tor is not completely safe.
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I'm a lawyer. And a former U.S. Marine who is ready to head for Chile. It's over here in the former republic, but in response to your inquiry.
It's YOYO time buddy. If you can't secure a couple of acres by yourself then you spent too much time in the military taking orders and not enough time thinking for yourself. (YOYO: "You're On Your Own")
It's easy to find land. Lease it with an option to purchase, with the leasehold payments being applied in whole or in part to the purchase price, all of which should be determined prior to signing anything. And have a COMPETENT lawyer review the lease. It doesn't cost much for a simple transaction like that. Remember, as a general rule, lending institutions do not loan money to buy land, so you should be able to leverage into something and be able to handle it financially. Write it up so that if you default the seller cannot come against you personally for a deficiency judgment. (Jurisdictions vary) Get an option to renew, but you should be able to pay it off relatively soon. (I know, it's a shock to actually own the place a person lives on, but some people can handle it.)
Focus on soil, soil, soil, and water, water, water, as well as clearly defined boundaries so you don't get into a boundary line dispute. Figure out how the land drains during different times of the year. A woodlot is nice, and a stream or creek is nice, but not necessary, and may even invite intruders. You can't beat a good well. Check out the access and if the road into the place is public/county, or if it is private. Find out if the road is plowed during the winter. Check out zoning if applicable, building codes, sanitary and enviromental. Don't get hung up on tactical considerations as if you're building fire base Trinity or something like that. Being who you are and what you believe, you probably will not be a good candidate for re-education or, better yet, "dialogue", so I'll be so bold as to say that you and you're family will go to your eternal reward, if applicable, early; or you'll be moving out with little or no notice on foot, so have good boots, etc. (Sounds nuts doesn't it? ("Light in the ass" is how we used to refer to in the old days.)) (You place might even be seized because you're just another damn Krulak that won't knuckle under.)
There is no being "grey" or being under the radar or thinking that any of us are going to make it through this without taking casualties. Lots of casualties. 'Nuff said. The criminals in government and their fellow travelers know who you are and where you live, and they hate you.
Betrayal being the oldest theme in the human experience, don't expect loyalty from anyone, family included. That's just the way it is.
Forget about the "elect" Christian Zionist Roman Catholic hating Survivalblog "American Redoubt" Calvinists who are so hooked on their religious supremacism, and themselves, that they are convincing people to move to the intermountain west where the soil is poor to nonexistent for the most part, water is very scarce, decent jobs are few, and as folks say in Montana, it can be "poverty with a view". And remember the new player in all of this. Drones. Lots and lots of drones. Piece of cake for the central government keeping track of us out here. And another piece of cake to kill us off. (Say, how about them Afghans? Something to learn there??
Stick with your family and avoid alliances unless and until it becomes absolutely necessary. Then you won't have to deal with annoying, non-essential issues like hurt feelings, who drank the last beer? etc.
Get an amateur radio license, or at least learn how to operate on VHF and HF (Very High Frequency; High Frequency); and learn morse code, even if it's very, very slow. People who won't do this are lazy and it's a good indicator of their motivation, and I won't go near them. It's big deal, like knowing how to keep you rifle operating and your feet in good shape.
Admittedly, I'm a horse's backside most of the time, but my ego, the prophecy business and boogie men aside, and just looking at the facts, we are pinned down so to speak, and day to day it is "danger close". You do not have time to begin courting people, and even if you did, it's too high risk, distracting, and takes up too much time.
I was told to accept one's death in order to maximize one's chance of survival.
Sounds paradoxical, but it makes sense to me because then a person can think more clearly and act decisively. Who knows, you might end up being surprised.
Best regards to you and yours, and believe it or not, I can come across as normal in public.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam, and remember,
Deo Vindice
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Don't be interesting!
You need to follow this advice. Since I've gotten here I've probably read more of your posts than anybody elses. :wink:
I've read that using Tor is not completely safe.
Thanks Busilis but I think these other guys with military background have some extra insights into the US scenario so their advice is good also. You are right. Tor is not completely secure, but I think of the analogy of a car in a parking lot. If you have a lock, no matter how pathetic, the thieves will still take the car next to yours because it has no lock at all.
People who they will target are those who are likely to make some kind of organized resistance. What they are after is evidence of organization, so communications logs and so on. They practice on 'terrorists', but their ultimate target will be ordinary citizens.
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Deo Vindice-- Wow.
"If you can't secure a couple of acres by yourself then you spent too much time in the military taking orders and not enough time thinking for yourself."
You might have assumed that anyone who can afford to shuttle 2-3 people per year back & forth to SE Alaska every 2-3 years & spend 3-4 months each trip away from our jobs, living in the back country, can afford to buy a couple of acres. It isn't lack of resources that inspired me to post the message that I did, but an awareness that resources are limited & time is short. Every penny that we can save on purchasing land can be invested in other critical resources & infrastructure.
"I'm a lawyer. And a former U.S. Marine who is ready to head for Chile. It's over here in the former republic..."
To a large extent I agree with you. It's over. But I'm not sure that the political history of-- excuse me-- but Chile? It just doesn't give me reason to think things will be a whole lot better there. I've lived all over the world, & when you come right down to it the culture & political climate in the U.S. are still 'way better than anywhere else in the world, & they're likely to remain so for some time to come.
I wasn't gonna say this, since I'm open to alternatives, but our Plan A right now involves moving to SE Alaska, where we have extensive experience. It's a roadless area where access is by boat or by float plane, low taxes, minimal gun control laws, favorable home schooling laws, & very much a climate of you leave me alone & I'll leave you alone. There is no "fusion center" for the collection of intel on U.S. citizens, & very little federal involvement in law enforcement (except for the US Forestry Service & the USCG).
"It's easy to find land."
...but suitable land is another matter.
"Being who you are and what you believe...I'll be so bold as to say that you and you're family will go to your eternal reward, if applicable, early; or you'll be moving out with little or no notice on foot, so have good boots, etc."
It sounds as if you're saying when the stuff hits the fan, we've had it. While that's an outcome we all face, I think we're a little better-prepared than you suggest. If things turn to excrement suddenly, before the move, then yeah-- we'll be in a hurt. So will we all who aren't already positioned on suitable land. But if it happens gradually, or after the move, then we'll be fine. We have pre-positioned resources at a storage unit outside the city & a way to get there, & we have plenty of experience evacuating. We lived in the New Orleans area for 8 years, including Hurricane Katrina.
"There is no being 'grey' or being under the radar or thinking that any of us are going to make it through this without taking casualties. Lots of casualties."
In the Lower 48 that is probably true. In the remote hinterlands of Alaska, much less so. I'm willing to evaluate a retreat in the Lower 48 States that I specified in my original post-- Idaho, Wyoming, & Montana-- & if it's far enough off the beaten track, then maybe.
"The criminals in government and their fellow travelers know who you are and where you live, and they hate you."
Yeah. Sucks, don't it?
"Forget about the 'elect' Christian Zionist Roman Catholic hating Survivalblog 'American Redoubt' Calvinists who are so hooked on their religious supremacism, and themselves, that they are convincing people to move to the intermountain west where the soil is poor to nonexistent for the most part, water is very scarce, decent jobs are few..."
I see you're familiar with Survivalblog. Unlike you, I regard the 'American Redoubt' plan of James Wesley Rawles as a reasonable, if not an optimum response to the situation. And Rawles himself, although a Calvinist, comes across as a well-informed survivalist. Have you any evidence that he hates Catholics?
"And remember the new player in all of this. Drones. Lots and lots of drones."
They are never far from my thoughts, which is another reason why I lean towards SE Alaska. Lots more ground for the drones to cover, lots more trees for them to try to see thru, requiring them to get closer, & lots less ambient noise to cover their engine sounds when they do. But best of all, in SE Alaska we'll be entirely off the grid. No utlity hookups, no address, the ability to camoflage our structures to blend into the terrain, & become more or less entirely self-sufficient.
"Stick with your family and avoid alliances unless and until it becomes absolutely necessary."
It's a tough call. 100% OPSEC & avoid most of the problems, or compromise OPSEC to build relationships & broaden our resources? The thing that has encouraged me in the direction of trying to build relationships is a realization that OPSEC can never be 100%, coupled with the truly daunting size of the task before us. Anything we can do to reduce the size of that task & increase the speed with which it can be accomplished is worth it, in my view.
"Admittedly, I'm a horse's backside most of the time..."
Yeah, but you can admit it. That goes a long way.
"You do not have time to begin courting people, and even if you did, it's too high risk, distracting, and takes up too much time."
That's your opinion. I think we have about 5 years before things start getting really bad. If this cooperative retreat concept doesn't work out over the next year or so then we'll be moving to Alaska in April of 2013, & the cooperative retreat idea will go back on the shelf.
Now to other matters. What led you to consider Chile, why do you consider that a superior strategy, & are you open to alternatives?
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I think of the analogy of a car in a parking lot. If you have a lock, no matter how pathetic, the thieves will still take the car next to yours because it has no lock at all.
People who they will target are those who are likely to make some kind of organized resistance. What they are after is evidence of organization... They practice on 'terrorists', but their ultimate target will be ordinary citizens.
I believe these 2 statements to be precisely accurate.
In particular, those who are familiar with the activities of the 72 "fusion centers" across the country-- multijurisdictional task forces gathering poorly evaluated intel on US citizens; & those who are familiar with DHS-sponsored training for law enforcement personnel can see the patterns emerging.
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency, given enough rainfall capture and ideally an aquifer. The only problem is getting materials for composting. A little bit of networking and bartering can solve that problem. Networking with neighbors improves your security and can serve as an early warning system.
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency...
Not with my brood :). 3 sons, wives/fiances, 3 grandkids, more on the way, & the possibility of being joined by a daughter, her husband, & their kids, plus possible in-laws. I've seen some evidence of urban & suburban homesteads with truly phenomenal yields, but I'm afraid that with my crew half an acre just won't cut it.
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency...
Not with my brood :). 3 sons, wives/fiances, 3 grandkids, more on the way, & the possibility of being joined by a daughter, her husband, & their kids, plus possible in-laws. I've seen some evidence of urban & suburban homesteads with truly phenomenal yields, but I'm afraid that with my crew half an acre just won't cut it.
Yes, good point. However there are some threads on here and good sources elsewhere on how to get high yield from small acreage. High intensity organic farming is still in its infancy.
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Deo Vindice-- Wow.
"If you can't secure a couple of acres by yourself then you spent too much time in the military taking orders and not enough time thinking for yourself."
You might have assumed that anyone who can afford to shuttle 2-3 people per year back & forth to SE Alaska every 2-3 years & spend 3-4 months each trip away from our jobs, living in the back country, can afford to buy a couple of acres. It isn't lack of resources that inspired me to post the message that I did, but an awareness that resources are limited & time is short. Every penny that we can save on purchasing land can be invested in other critical resources & infrastructure.
"I'm a lawyer. And a former U.S. Marine who is ready to head for Chile. It's over here in the former republic..."
To a large extent I agree with you. It's over. But I'm not sure that the political history of-- excuse me-- but Chile? It just doesn't give me reason to think things will be a whole lot better there. I've lived all over the world, & when you come right down to it the culture & political climate in the U.S. are still 'way better than anywhere else in the world, & they're likely to remain so for some time to come.
I wasn't gonna say this, since I'm open to alternatives, but our Plan A right now involves moving to SE Alaska, where we have extensive experience. It's a roadless area where access is by boat or by float plane, low taxes, minimal gun control laws, favorable home schooling laws, & very much a climate of you leave me alone & I'll leave you alone. There is no "fusion center" for the collection of intel on U.S. citizens, & very little federal involvement in law enforcement (except for the US Forestry Service & the USCG).
"It's easy to find land."
...but suitable land is another matter.
"Being who you are and what you believe...I'll be so bold as to say that you and you're family will go to your eternal reward, if applicable, early; or you'll be moving out with little or no notice on foot, so have good boots, etc."
It sounds as if you're saying when the stuff hits the fan, we've had it. While that's an outcome we all face, I think we're a little better-prepared than you suggest. If things turn to excrement suddenly, before the move, then yeah-- we'll be in a hurt. So will we all who aren't already positioned on suitable land. But if it happens gradually, or after the move, then we'll be fine. We have pre-positioned resources at a storage unit outside the city & a way to get there, & we have plenty of experience evacuating. We lived in the New Orleans area for 8 years, including Hurricane Katrina.
"There is no being 'grey' or being under the radar or thinking that any of us are going to make it through this without taking casualties. Lots of casualties."
In the Lower 48 that is probably true. In the remote hinterlands of Alaska, much less so. I'm willing to evaluate a retreat in the Lower 48 States that I specified in my original post-- Idaho, Wyoming, & Montana-- & if it's far enough off the beaten track, then maybe.
"The criminals in government and their fellow travelers know who you are and where you live, and they hate you."
Yeah. Sucks, don't it?
"Forget about the 'elect' Christian Zionist Roman Catholic hating Survivalblog 'American Redoubt' Calvinists who are so hooked on their religious supremacism, and themselves, that they are convincing people to move to the intermountain west where the soil is poor to nonexistent for the most part, water is very scarce, decent jobs are few..."
I see you're familiar with Survivalblog. Unlike you, I regard the 'American Redoubt' plan of James Wesley Rawles as a reasonable, if not an optimum response to the situation. And Rawles himself, although a Calvinist, comes across as a well-informed survivalist. Have you any evidence that he hates Catholics?
"And remember the new player in all of this. Drones. Lots and lots of drones."
They are never far from my thoughts, which is another reason why I lean towards SE Alaska. Lots more ground for the drones to cover, lots more trees for them to try to see thru, requiring them to get closer, & lots less ambient noise to cover their engine sounds when they do. But best of all, in SE Alaska we'll be entirely off the grid. No utlity hookups, no address, the ability to camoflage our structures to blend into the terrain, & become more or less entirely self-sufficient.
"Stick with your family and avoid alliances unless and until it becomes absolutely necessary."
It's a tough call. 100% OPSEC & avoid most of the problems, or compromise OPSEC to build relationships & broaden our resources? The thing that has encouraged me in the direction of trying to build relationships is a realization that OPSEC can never be 100%, coupled with the truly daunting size of the task before us. Anything we can do to reduce the size of that task & increase the speed with which it can be accomplished is worth it, in my view.
"Admittedly, I'm a horse's backside most of the time..."
Yeah, but you can admit it. That goes a long way.
"You do not have time to begin courting people, and even if you did, it's too high risk, distracting, and takes up too much time."
That's your opinion. I think we have about 5 years before things start getting really bad. If this cooperative retreat concept doesn't work out over the next year or so then we'll be moving to Alaska in April of 2013, & the cooperative retreat idea will go back on the shelf.
Now to other matters. What led you to consider Chile, why do you consider that a superior strategy, & are you open to alternatives?
From Deo Vindice:
I think Alaska can be a good venue if a person can get a foothold and keep it. Sounds like you've got a good crew to make a life up there. I've been there on business and it was very impressive.
I thought about Chile because of the fact that it is @70% Roman Catholic according to the CIA factbook, and other things I've read. Of course, what Catholic means these days is a good question. Although I'm not opus dei I understand that they have significant influence there, and it seems to me that at least they can throw a punch when it comes to standing up for the faith. But then again, I really have no idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to opus dei. I guess I respect the devotion I've seen in latino's and if Chile (and Uruguay) are still pretty Catholic I'd submit that they are worth looking at. Terrain and water in Chile seemed ok, and an adequate infrastructure; it also seems to be off the "big picture" board - at least for now. So maybe it's a good place to hunker down. I may be way off though.
I got a bellyfull of the military and have had the same with respect to government and that is why I am so cynical. The fact that the last 3 chairmen of the joint chiefs have been "catholic" has been extremely disillusioning to me. (Pace, Mullen, and Dempsey). I ate every bowl of compost that was served up to me through school, the service, etc., and look at where we are as families, a church, and as a society. The sanctimonious "pay, pray and obey" crap has just turned my stomach totally inside out. And it still goes on when we see "catholic" colleges pimping young people for outrageous student loans and their rotc programs providing company grade officers for the Israeli-American wars of agression. (Oh boy, there I go again. I sure have gotten my backside chewed more than once for "just not understanding" how bad the muslims are and how I have got to learn how to hate them - like the Hun, the Jap, the gook, etc. (I know many, many people disagree with me on this.)
I simply have nothing more in common with the index of american mythologies and beliefs, including the old time worn nonsensical reply from people that "it's still the best . . . in the world", etc. We are neck high in the blood of innocent and defenseless unborn children and when it's open season on them anything goes.
You're pointed in the right direction and I respect what you're doing for your family and the salvation of your souls. It would be nice to have coffee together.
Some morning relatively soon I expect that we will wake up and things will be very, very different; and not in a good sense. God respects free will. We've brought it upon ourselves. As the saying goes, "better a year early than a day late" when it comes to being ready to go to ground zero.
Press on.
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Best places to be during World War II? At the far corners of the earth, and pretty much nowhere else. This is going to apply again in future wars, because the geopolitical map just does not change. Wars are always over resources and routes.
The worst places have been areas which have major industry in the region, or are mining rich areas, or where infrastructure which is critical to the national interest exists, or on the way to these places.
Pick a nice, useless, underdeveloped and otherwise boring corner of the planet. Why? Because that area will have lived as it does now for a very long time, with a steady and unflinching growth rate, and not being on the way to anywhere interesting, no tycoon will have built a tollway through it, and no military has decided to defend it with some kind of gigantic base that serves as a big Google Maps target for a warhead. Being underdeveloped means it will probably be independent too when it comes to infrastructure. If people know how to live without public water, 24/7 electricity and occasionally isolated food supply lines, then they are people who be a help and not a hindrance in a crisis.
And steer CLEAR of Opus Dei! They are trouble. We will not solve the scourge of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ by founding religious orders that are run in the same way!
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Although I'm not opus dei I understand that they have significant influence there, and it seems to me that at least they can throw a punch when it comes to standing up for the faith. But then again, I really have no idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to opus dei.
Maizar's opinion, delivered above, reflects the fact that Opus Dei has come under considerable criticism. Personally, based on my own investigation, I think much of that criticism is unfounded, but it isn't a very big issue with me.
So maybe it's (Chile) a good place to hunker down. I may be way off though.
You raised the point of what it means to be a Catholic these days. It's my understanding that in much of Latin American liberation theology has taken root, which is a radical, ultra-liberal-- I'd say even non-Catholic-- arm of the Catholic Church. From your posts I'm sure you understand what I mean.
The fact that the last 3 chairmen of the joint chiefs have been "catholic" has been extremely disillusioning to me. (Pace, Mullen, and Dempsey).
I know exactly what you mean. Kinda like the fact that the most prominent Catholic family in the U.S. is-- excuse me-- the Kennedys? I wouldn't even call them Catholic. I've gotten in trouble for saying that political liberalism is incompatible with Catholic doctrine, but I firmly believe it.
The sanctimonious "pay, pray and obey" crap has just turned my stomach totally inside out.
Couldn't agree more.
I sure have gotten my backside chewed more than once for "just not understanding" how bad the muslims are and how I have got to learn how to hate them...
It isn't that we have to hate them, Deo-- it's that they hate us. Islam is literally full of people-- kids, most of 'em-- who look forward eagerly to the chance to blow themselves up to kill a few of us. How many Christians do you know who'd commit ѕυιcιdє to kill a few Muslims?
We are neck high in the blood of innocent and defenseless unborn children and when it's open season on them anything goes.
Unfortunately you are exactly correct.
It would be nice to have coffee together. Some morning relatively soon I expect that we will wake up and things will be very, very different; and not in a good sense.
Yeah. But in lieu of coffee, I've posted a thread over in the "Crisis in the Church" forum I'd like you to have a look at. It's heavily theological & you don't strike me as a very theological sort of a guy, but it predicts right when things are likely to start getting really, seriously bad. The name of the thread is "End Times Prophecy". Tell me what you think. (You too, Maizar.)
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It isn't that we have to hate them, Deo-- it's that they hate us. Islam is literally full of people-- kids, most of 'em-- who look forward eagerly to the chance to blow themselves up to kill a few of us. How many Christians do you know who'd commit ѕυιcιdє to kill a few Muslims?
Quite a few actually.
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...rainfall capture....
An act that has been criminalized in several jurisdictions already.
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Good to see that some practicing Catholics are awake and aware of the trajectory of current events.
I'd like to add a few considerations.
Growing season. Unless one wants to eat "Eskimo ice cream" (rancid blubber, sugar, and berries) for a significant portion of the year, I would advocate a location that has a decent growing season—and, of course, fertile soil and water. Those of us who are cold weather weenies would also find a decent growing season commensurate with an amiable climate.
Skill sets and preps. One may certainly acquire a laudable and decent set of skills while being deficient in some critical skills. One may make marvelous acquisitions of "preps" that will eventually run out. For the long term then locating in a convivial Catholic community makes more sense than a grubby hidey-hole.
Fishing. Ongoing Fukushima and Deepwater oil volcanos have destroyed the desirability of coastal access for fishing. To some degree, the presence of Fukushima radiation in California milk, vegetables, and cattle is increasingly problematic.
Speaking as a sinner, the most critical item to me is access to the sacraments. What doth it profit me if I "save" my life and lose my soul?
These considerations have slowed my "preps." Where is there a Catholic community with a climate that doesn't freeze methane or vaporize steel (poetic license), fertile soil, plenty of water, and enough folks with complimentary skill sets and resources without an immediately overbearing presence of the enemies of Jesus Christ Our King?
The Idaho panhandle is attractive in many ways, but the growing season is short and the Federal undercover presence is pervasive. Arizona is attractive in many ways but the growing season is shorter than you'd think because the blistering summer heat fractures the climate into two short growing seasons and there is a major fusion center and lawless police state. Most secular requirements can be met in Northern CA/Southern OR but there are no Sacraments between San Francisco and Eugene.
All this underscores what the Blessed Mother has warned—that there will be NO place to be safe.... and that all we will have will be her Rosary.
Ideas?
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http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/gearing-up-dhs-purchases-bullet-resistant-checkpoint-booths-amid-large-scale-ammo-buildup_04052012#comments
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How many Christians do you know who'd commit ѕυιcιdє to kill a few Muslims?
Quite a few actually.
You can't be serious. I don't know of any.
Guess I don't get out enough.
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ѕυιcιdє is a mortal sin. Any "Catholic" willing to commit ѕυιcιdє for any reason is either mentally unbalanced or doesn't have the faith.
A crusade on the other hand...
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Dittos on the crusade.
I know there are sharply divided opinions on this site about our proper relationship with Muslims. Let me preface my following remarks by saying that I'm a retired Army officer with a foreign area officer specialty & a Middle Eastern emphasis. During the Iranian Hostage Crisis back in the '80s I was a low-level advisor because of contacts I'd made with Iranians. Later, as I worked in the field, I developed other acquaintenceships with numerous Muslims, mostly Sunni but a few Shi'ite, whom in other circuмstances I would have called friends-- except that Muslims aren't allowed to have Jєωιѕн or Christian "friends".
Based on my experience, it is my strongly held belief that Islam is pervaded by an irrational hatred of Christianity, Christians, & Western civilization in general. Forced conversion at the point of a sword is a central tenet of Islam, & Mohammed was a military leader who set that example. Unlike Christianity, Islam was spread mainly by military conquest, & nowadays they feel that Christianity has unjustly replaced Islam as the default religion in much of the world. They'd like to reclaim their pre-eminent position, & can see no nonviolent way of doing so. Hence the doctrine that if you die killing infidels for Allah then in the afterlife you get 72 virgins.
Given the above, our only proper relationship with Islam is war. I was once banned from another site for saying that, because the mods thought I was advocating ethnic cleansing. What I'm advocating isn't ethnic & it isn't cleansing-- it's a measured response to acts of war committed by Muslims against the United States, & against Christianity.
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So, Graehame, what is your opinion on "our only proper relationship" with Judaism?
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... But then again, I really have no idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to opus dei....
Read these summaries and you will begin to understand the change agents of Opus Judei.
"Chapter III : The Hidden Judaism of Opus Dei"
http://www.alcazar.net/Opus_Dei.pdf
Opus Judei
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/02/opus-judei.html
Opus Judei Glosses on the тαℓмυdic Novus Ordo "Offertory"
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2010/02/o...udic-novus.html
Opus Judei Founder, Escriba Preached Kabbalistic Doctrine, Tikkun Olam
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/07/opus-judei-founder-escriba-preached.html
"Opus Dei" "Hebrew Catholic" Connection
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2008/02/opus-dei-hebrew-catholic-connection.html
"Hebrew Catholics" see: Khazar тαℓмυdists
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/11/hebrew-catholics-see-khazar-тαℓмυdists.html
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency, given enough rainfall capture and ideally an aquifer....
In 21st century standards, one-half acre per person would likely find you calorie deficient.
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency, given enough rainfall capture and ideally an aquifer....
In 21st century standards, one-half acre per person would likely find you calorie deficient.
Not really. See how to live off 1 Acre of Land (http://www.ehow.com/how_5934505_live-off-acre-land.html), and other similar articles. The full process requires a greenhouse, chickens, worm farm, fruit trees, and a supply of compost (this is where half an acre will fall over). Really one would need more than half an acre, as with that small amount of land (eg: in a suburban setting) there needs to be supplementation by bringing in manure and garden waste, but this is not a great expense, and over time the requirements for this decrease gradually.
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So, Graehame, what is your opinion on "our only proper relationship" with Judaism?
Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, &tc. don't teach in their schools hatred of Christianity. They don't have policies or histories of conversion by the sword. They don't impose a sentence of death on apostates-- those who convert to other religions. So I'd say evangelize them, & otherwise it's live & let live.
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Most secular requirements can be met in Northern CA/Southern OR but there are no Sacraments between San Francisco and Eugene.
There is a SSPX priory in Los Gatos, and independent chapel (SSPX-friendly) in San Jose, and a SSPX chapel in Sacramento (mass on Sundays only).
There are two or three Eastern Catholic churches in Sacramento and several more in the Bay Area and in case of absolute emergency, there are various Orthodox churches in Northern California - some of them in the most unlikely places.
For those comfortable with Indult, there is a Institute of Christ the King chapel in Santa Clara, a ICK church in Oakland, and a large FSSP parish in Sacramento.
There have been traces of sedevacantist/independent activity elsewhere in Northern California (i.e., Bay Area), but all that I could find is remnants of old websites with dysfunctional links.
There are also some secluded Novus Ordo monasteries.
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So, Graehame, what is your opinion on "our only proper relationship" with Judaism?
Judaism, ...&tc. don't teach in their schools hatred of Christianity. .... They don't impose a sentence of death on apostates....
On the contrary:
Judaism teaches hatred of Christ, Christians, and Christianity.
The тαℓмυd teaches that Jesus was a "mamzer" [bastard] conceived adulterously in "niddah" [menstrual filth] by a Roman soldier named Pandera [Kallah 51a] of a whore [Sanhedrin 106a] and that He is now in Hell boiling in feces and, in some editions because Jesus is accused of sɛҳuąƖ perversion, semen [Gittin 57a]. The тαℓмυd claims that the Sanhedrin justly executed Jesus because he was an idolater [Sanhedrin 43a] who worshipped a brick [Sanhedrin 67a], even boasting that the Sanhedrin overcame Roman opposition to the execution of Jesus [Sanhedrin 43a].
"And for Christians let there be no hope..." Birkat HaMinim, "Benediction" #12 of the Shmone Esreh
"It is our duty to praise the Master of All, to ascribe greatness to the molder of primeval creation, for He has not made us like the nations of the lands, for He has not assigned our portion like theirs nor our lot like theirs, for they bow to vanity and emptiness and pray to a god who cannot save--man, ash, blood, bile, stinking flesh, maggot, defiled men and women, adulterers and adulteresses, dying in their iniquity and rotting in their wickedness, worn out dust, rot of maggot [and worm]--and pray to a god who cannot save." Aleinu from Judaic prayer book, Two Nations in Your Womb, Israel Jacob Yuval, University of California Press, 2006, p.119
“I want to attack their souls.” Rabbi Abraham Heschel, interviewed by Geula Cohen for Ma'ariv, January 4, 1965 as translated by AJC/Paris
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2007/12/vatican-ii-kabbalist-sage-rabbi-abraham.html
“You and your f@#king Jesus can kiss my a$%....We killed Jesus and we’re proud of it...” http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1842edc4f
“We killed Jesus and we’ll kill you too!” http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2006/11/18/hebron-day-06/
Holy Week 1954 Israelis desecrate Christian cemeteries in Haifa
March 20, 2008 16 year old son of Protestant pastor injured by bomb in a Purim gift basket http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1205420741251&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
May 20, 2008 Orthodox Jєωιѕн youths burn New Testaments http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/985362.html
December 12, 2009 “Death to Christians”: Hebrew graffiti next to Upper Room in Jerusalem
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=17106&size=A
http://tinyurl.com/yjj7stb
December 14, 2009 Russian cathedral in Jerusalem vandalized
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6737
http://tinyurl.com/yzm4ers
December 16, 2009 More anti-Christian death threats and almost daily urinations at the Cenacle, sacred site of the Last Supper
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=17130&size=A
http://tinyurl.com/yh37jq9
December 27, 2009 Before Christmas Israelis steal sacred Mary’s Gate from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
http://palestinecry.blogspot.com/2009/12/special-palestine-cry-blog-articles-why.html
December 30, 2009 Christian convert repeatedly attacked in Jerusalem, police do nothing
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11624325/
December 30, 2009 Christians in Jerusalem want Jєωs to stop spitting on them by Amiram Barkat
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=487412&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
October 18, 2010 Senior Sephardi Rabbi Ovadia Yosef announces that Gentiles only exist to serve Jєωs:
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel… In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jєω. Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”
“Yosef: Gentiles exist only to serve Jєωs” by Jonah Mandel, Jerusalem Post, 10/18/2010
http://www.jpost.com/JєωιѕнWorld/JєωιѕнNews/Article.aspx?id=191782
Easter 2011 Israeli TV mocks Crucifixion on Easter
http://www.therightperspective.org/2011/04/24/israeli-tv-mocks-christ-crucifixion/
Christmas 2011 “As long as I hold office, no non-Jєωιѕн symbol will be presented in the city.”
How the mayor (of a Nazareth suburb) stole Christmas
http://972mag.com/how-the-mayor-of-a-nazareth-suburb-stole-christmas-2/6979/
Their beit din (halachic courts) impose death sentences on apostates.
The most famous example is Spinoza who received a knife in the neck for his part in the Haskalah (Judaic 'enlightenment," a repudiation of the rabbis and their laws).
“From the 11th century the persecution of Karaites (a heretical Jєωιѕн sect) [“heretical” because Karaites follow Mosaic Law, not тαℓмυdic Law, “halacha”] by flogging them to death if unrepentant was common in Castile. Jєωιѕн women who cohabited with Gentiles had their noses cut off by rabbis who explained that 'in this way she will lose her beauty and her non-Jєωιѕн lover will come to hate her'. Jєωs who had the effrontery to attack a rabbinical judge had their hands cut off. Adulterers were imprisoned, after being made to run the gauntlet through the Jєωιѕн quarter. In religious disputes, those thought to be heretics had their tongues cut out ...” Prof. Israel Shahak, Jєωιѕн History, Jєωιѕн Religion–the Weight of Three Thousand Years
http://www.bandung2.co.uk/books/Files/Religion/Jєωιѕн%20History,%20Jєωιѕн%20Religion%20%28The%20Weight%20of%20Three%20Thousand%20Years%29%20-%20Israel%20Shahak.pdf
"It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jєωιѕн traitors, minim [Christians], and apikorsim, ["heretics," i.e., sincere Judaic converts to Christianity] and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jєωs and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Chapter 10]
They teach that Christians (and all Gentiles) should be killed.
"The Christians are idolaters, and Sunday is their holiday..." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Avodah Zorah, 9;4]
"The Christians are worshipers of Avodah Zorah ["idolatry"]" [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Ma'akhalot Assurot, 11:7]
"It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jєωιѕн traitors, minim [Christians], and apikorsim, ["heretics," i.e., sincere Judaic converts to Christianity] and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jєωs and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot." [Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Chapter 10]
Chabad’s rabbis discuss Maimonides’ advice on killing Gentiles:
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/7ab984ab464622535f2770556e1388f6.jpg
Scroll down to the Commentary on Halacha 1:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/912369/Jєωιѕн/Chapter-Ten.htm
"... a gentile who worships false gods is liable, [for the death penalty] provided he worships them in the accepted manner [in other words, insincere worship such as (1) faking worship to obtain business or social advantage, as the Marranos, or (2) denying Jesus' divinity, does not earn the death penalty]. A gentile is executed for every type of foreign worship which a Jєωιѕн court would consider worthy of capital punishment." [Maimonides, Hilchot Melachim XI, Mishneh Torah]
The Jєωιѕн Encyclopedia affirms that the punishment for Christian "idolatry" is beheading. See:
"Laws, Noachian," Jєωιѕн Encyclopedia entry,
http://www.Jєωιѕнencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=113&letter=L
“The best of the gentiles: kill him; the best of snakes: smash its skull; the best of women: is filled with witchcraft.” Kiddushin 66c The uncensored version of this text appears in Tractate Soferim (New York, M. Higer, 1937), 15:7, p. 282. "The best of the gentiles should all be killed."
http://тαℓмυdical.blogspot.com/2010/09/truth-about-тαℓмυd.html
Chabad’s rabbis discuss Maimonides’ advice on killing Gentiles:
“…although our Sages declared, ‘Kill even the best of the gentiles,’ and that, as mentioned above, the Rambam [Maimonides] states in Hilchot Melachim 8:10 that any gentile who does not accept the seven universal laws commanded to Noah and his descendants should be slain. These directives, however. can be interpreted to apply only in a time of war or in a time when the Jєωs have control over the gentiles.”
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/7ab984ab464622535f2770556e1388f6.jpg
Scroll down to the Commentary on Halacha 1:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/912369/Jєωιѕн/Chapter-Ten.htm
"If we see that a Gentile's life is in danger, we should not save him." (Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Avodah Kochavim, 10:1)
and so they dumped this dying man off their property without even calling an ambulance:
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/03/chabadniks-leave-purim-celebrating.html
Connect the dots:
(1) what Chabad teaches about killing Gentiles &
(2) what the Chabadniks did—they dumped a dying man off their property, a man who had celebrated Purim with them. They didn’t call an ambulance. They let the Gentile die, EXACTLY as their Master Race creed teaches.
The Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jєωs
Ma’ariv 09.11.09 (p. 2) by Roi Sharon
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/964/186.html?hp=1&loc=1&tmp=3416
Here is a full translation of the article in the Maariv newspaper of Israel
http://didiremez.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-Jєωs/
Rabbi Eliyahu exhorts the killing of women and children:
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=63137
“The prohibition ‘Thou Shalt Not Murder’” applies only “to a Jєω who kills a Jєω,” write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jєωs are “uncompassionate by nature” and attacks on them “curb their evil inclination,” while babies and children of Israel’s enemies may be killed since “it is clear that they will grow to harm us.”
http://forward.com/articles/123925/
They evangelize their Satanic precepts.
Maimonides legislates that it is incuмbent upon the Jєωιѕн people even to coerce the rest of the world if necessary to accept the Noahide laws [Mishneh Torah , Laws of Kings 8,10] ... we certainly must proselytize every human being to keep those seven laws." (Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, Center for Jєωιѕн-Christian Understanding and Cooperation
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2011/01/pope-we-need-to-work-together-with.html)
Who Says Judaism Isn't a Proselytizing System?
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2008/01/who-says-judaism-isnt-proselytizing.html
USCCB States Principles for "Dialogue" Fraud
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2009/10/usccb-statement-of-principles-for.html
Here are the plans for your re-education:
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/142887/Jєωιѕн/Education-Day-USA.htm
There is nothing "live and let live" about Judaism.
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Most secular requirements can be met in Northern CA/Southern OR but there are no Sacraments between San Francisco and Eugene.
There is a SSPX priory in Los Gatos, and independent chapel (SSPX-friendly) in San Jose, and a SSPX chapel in Sacramento (mass on Sundays only).
There are two or three Eastern Catholic churches in Sacramento and several more in the Bay Area and in case of absolute emergency, there are various Orthodox churches in Northern California - some of them in the most unlikely places.
For those comfortable with Indult, there is a Institute of Christ the King chapel in Santa Clara, a ICK church in Oakland, and a large FSSP parish in Sacramento.
There have been traces of sedevacantist/independent activity elsewhere in Northern California (i.e., Bay Area), but all that I could find is remnants of old websites with dysfunctional links.
There are also some secluded Novus Ordo monasteries.
Thank you. Having assisted at Mass there, I am very familiar with all the Catholic options there. Unfortunately they are all urban, hence not what my family would need in a refuge or redoubt. I am sorry that I did not specify that I am looking for something that will be removed far from the near-certain violence of urban hellholes.
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At the very minimum, half an acre of good, arable land is actually sufficient for nearly complete self sufficiency, given enough rainfall capture and ideally an aquifer....
In 21st century standards, one-half acre per person would likely find you calorie deficient.
Not really. See how to live off 1 Acre of Land (http://www.ehow.com/how_5934505_live-off-acre-land.html), and other similar articles. The full process requires a greenhouse, chickens, worm farm, fruit trees, and a supply of compost (this is where half an acre will fall over). Really one would need more than half an acre, as with that small amount of land (eg: in a suburban setting) there needs to be supplementation by bringing in manure and garden waste, but this is not a great expense, and over time the requirements for this decrease gradually.
I dispute the website's claim that "Even just a quarter-acre of land will produce more than enough food to feed the average family of four."
Are they serious? that a family of four can survive on 1/4 acre alone, 1/16th acre per person without any other supplement???
Sure you can do intensive interplanting and have supplements like rabbits (Whoops! There goes the whole garden), chickens, and bees, but I would argue that your "one half acre" is simply slows the outcome of malnutrition, allowing no margin for the inevitable crop failures and soil depletion.
A short-term supplement certainly, but in no way a long term plan for success.
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I dispute the website's claim that "Even just a quarter-acre of land will produce more than enough food to feed the average family of four."
There is a family in Pasadena that grows 6,000 pounds of produce on one-tenth of an acre. They have been doing so for years.
http://urbanhomestead.org/
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I am skeptical. Their website makes claims, but I see no substantiation or cross check. I could make a nice website, post some verdant photos, and make some Excel charts. Some or all of you are free to believe them and stake your family's future on 1/10 or 1/16 of an acre.
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I dispute the website's claim that "Even just a quarter-acre of land will produce more than enough food to feed the average family of four."
Are they serious? that a family of four can survive on 1/4 acre alone, 1/16th acre per person without any other supplement???
Sure you can do intensive interplanting and have supplements like rabbits (Whoops! There goes the whole garden), chickens, and bees, but I would argue that your "one half acre" is simply slows the outcome of malnutrition, allowing no margin for the inevitable crop failures and soil depletion.
A short-term supplement certainly, but in no way a long term plan for success.
Yes, by traditional methods you are quite right, the soil will get depleted and crops will fail, but newer techniques which pay closer attention to the life cycle of plants, co-planting and natural methods of pest control, and which aim to retain captured carbon, nitrogen and minerals through recycling biological waste (even, for example, using a composting toilet) means that little goes to waste and the addition of mulch and manure from outside sources (which I said was necessary) will mean that the total biomass of the 1/2 acre or whatever it is, actually increases with use.
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I too have used all those methods (except a composting toilet) with excellent success in our own verdant garden providing a fine supplement of nutritious organic foods for our family—and that is precisely why I am skeptical of their claims of self-sufficiency and their claimed level of production. Our own efforts require considerable outside supplementation that I am certain would not be equalled by inclusion of a composting toilet.
I reiterate, I am entirely in favor of using the methods mentioned—and I will certainly include a composting toilet in our next home—but I am skeptical of the claim of 6,000# of self sufficient and nutritionally balanced production and I would never risk my family to such a tiny plan.
If anyone else wants to commit their family's food security to 1/10 or 1/16th of an acre, far be it from me to get in the way. I am not trying to be argumentative, but as a very capable third generation gardener, I think it imprudent to depend solely on such little space for survival. Of course, if one has nothing else and has no other option, do make the best of it.
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I too have used all those methods (except a composting toilet) with excellent success in our own verdant garden providing a fine supplement of nutritious organic foods for our family—and that is precisely why I am skeptical of their claims of self-sufficiency and their claimed level of production. Our own efforts require considerable outside supplementation that I am certain would not be equalled by inclusion of a composting toilet.
I reiterate, I am entirely in favor of using the methods mentioned—and I will certainly include a composting toilet in our next home—but I am skeptical of the claim of 6,000# of self sufficient and nutritionally balanced production and I would never risk my family to such a tiny plan.
If anyone else wants to commit their family's food security to 1/10 or 1/16th of an acre, far be it from me to get in the way. I am not trying to be argumentative, but as a very capable third generation gardener, I think it imprudent to depend solely on such little space for survival. Of course, if one has nothing else and has no other option, do make the best of it.
Oh I agree with that Diego, I wouldn't myself do it on such a small block! It is very touch-and-go on small acreage, with little room for error, and the garden will over-produce at times and under-produce at others, but apparently it is achievable. But if you are thinking about staple food then potato growing is the most space and energy efficient vegetable for providing basic energy needs, eg: can be grown in tyre stacks, and this has been done with success in urban gardens by pretty inexperienced amateurs.
I think full self sufficiency is a fantasy except with ample land and is usually a result of isolation and not choice, but should bad times come, someone stuck on half an acre with a fully functioning permaculture garden and a bit of storage of non-perishables could do pretty well for a year or more. It's all a question of exactly what problem one hopes to solve.
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I think full self sufficiency is a fantasy except with ample land and is usually a result of isolation and not choice, but should bad times come, someone stuck on half an acre with a fully functioning permaculture garden and a bit of storage of non-perishables could do pretty well for a year or more. It's all a question of exactly what problem one hopes to solve.
I agree in all respects. I would add that "full self-sufficiency" is unobtainable and, as a Catholic, undesirable. We depend upon the Holy Trinity, the Holy Family, the Holy Angels, Saints, our bishops and priests. We also depend upon our neighbors for skills we do not have and do not live long enough to acquire. That is why I seek a community with fertile soil, abundant water, a suitable growing season, and neighbors who need my skills and who would help me with skills I do not have.
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All sounds like a lot of hard work. I have trouble growing hanging baskets of flowers and strawberries.
I think I will get me a still and 10 tonnes of sugar.
Either that or lay down with me Rosary and ready myself for death. Easier.
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All sounds like a lot of hard work. I have trouble growing hanging baskets of flowers and strawberries.
I think I will get me a still and 10 tonnes of sugar.
Either that or lay down with me Rosary and ready myself for death. Easier.
Funny that you say that. There is a fellow who touts his stills on the "prepper" blogs and forums.
That said, here are some better ideas than laying down and dying:
http://www.rebuildingchristendom.com/
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Although I'm not opus dei I understand that they have significant influence there, and it seems to me that at least they can throw a punch when it comes to standing up for the faith. But then again, I really have no idea of what I'm talking about when it comes to opus dei.
Maizar's opinion, delivered above, reflects the fact that Opus Dei has come under considerable criticism. Personally, based on my own investigation, I think much of that criticism is unfounded, but it isn't a very big issue with me.
Opus Dei=More Novus Ordo
Run By Communists and Jєωs.
So maybe it's (Chile) a good place to hunker down. I may be way off though
Its a great place to bunker down...
You raised the point of what it means to be a Catholic these days. It's my understanding that in much of Latin American liberation theology has taken root, which is a radical, ultra-liberal-- I'd say even non-Catholic-- arm of the Catholic Church. From your posts I'm sure you understand what I mean.
They still have Conservative Catholic sensibilities, and that is what makes it nice to live around Catholics, however they practice and whatever mass they attend.
It isn't that we have to hate them, Deo-- it's that they hate us. Islam is literally full of people-- kids, most of 'em-- who look forward eagerly to the chance to blow themselves up to kill a few of us. How many Christians do you know who'd commit ѕυιcιdє to kill a few Muslims?
Do you really believe this crap you write?
America had NO Enemies in the Middle East, Before Israel. Ever thought of that?
And yes, theyd fight us with their teeth if they have to.
Bombs work just as well, but most times (95%) Mossad/CIA operatives pay unsuspecting kids $20 to deliver a package to market.
Package gets to destination, and the phone delivers the 'charge'. Blame Sunni, then repeat with Shiite. Instant cινιℓ ωαr where there was none.
BY WAY OF DECEPTION, THOU SHALL DO WAR. Surely you know this...I hope.
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I am skeptical. Their website makes claims, but I see no substantiation or cross check. I could make a nice website, post some verdant photos, and make some Excel charts. Some or all of you are free to believe them and stake your family's future on 1/10 or 1/16 of an acre.
Theres Video on Youtube of this very familys garden home on 1/4 an acre if you dont believe it.
Its inspiring, and was on the News as well.
6000 pounds of produce, they have a few goats and rabbits too.
It just goes to Show you what hard work can do.
And some aesome gardening skills.
Their entire yard is edible. And I mean edible, and they sell surplus at organic restaurants to pay the bills.
let me know if you wish to see it, I will link it, But I also want you to eat some crow first.
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Why? What did I do to you that I should "eat crow"? I am a gardener and am skeptical of the claim of 6,000# closed system production. Big deal. Did that somehow step on your toes? It's not like I spit in your face or on a crucifix.
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Why? What did I do to you that I should "eat crow"? I am a gardener and am skeptical of the claim of 6,000# closed system production. Big deal. Did that somehow step on your toes? It's not like I spit in your face or on a crucifix.
What kind of real gardener doubts (multiple times, the claims AND link to a website) of a family that produces 6000 lbs of produce on their 1/6-1/4 of an acre farm?
Do you want the Youtube Link or not of their family farm, showing you the awesomness/productivity of it?
Or are you content to be a malcontent, and a doubting Thomas of the reality and accomplishment of this family farm?
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On due consideration I remain skeptical. No matter how verdant the video, such production on so little land requires massive initial and periodic imported biomass. Only an ignorant loudmouth Brooklyn rebitsin would claim otherwise.