Author Topic: Retreat - refuge options (Read 11389 times)

Graehame · « **on:** March 27, 2012, 06:05:25 PM »

I’m the 58 year-old head of an extended family of traditionalist Catholics-- 3 sons and their wives and fiancees, politically very conservative-- who are attempting to prepare for the temporary or long-term breakdown of civilization. What we're looking for is an individual, family, or community that either possesses or is in the process of acquiring a remote retreat and requires 1 or more people to live there to perform security and caretaker duties. We are interested in correspondence to explore bartering our services in exchange for a few acres of land. Structures are not necessary-- we'll build them.
Our particular concerns stem from gov’t. expansionism [the gov’t. now thinks they can spy on people (Patriot Act), arrest and detain people on mere suspicion of wrongdoing (NDAA), and now even kill American citizens on the basis of such suspicion (public statement of Att'y. Gen. Eric Holder on 5 Mar.)], the imminent collapse of the European Union, the suspension of T-bond purchases by foreign buyers, and/or mid- to long-term interruptions in the food and oil supply, leading to an economic collapse in the U.S.; apocalyptic considerations (End Times prophecy), the risk of epidemic disease, 1 or more supercatastrophes occurring over a brief period of time, etc., and the effect any of this will have on nuclear power plants (loss of personnel leading to a compromise of the spent fuel rods in the containment pond).
What we bring to the table-- I have 12 years of experience as a U.S. Army officer with a Top Secret clearance, and a lifetime of wilderness survival experience all over the world. I and my sons for the past 16 years have spent a summer every 2 or 3 years prospecting in southeastern Alaska. Between the 4 of us we have limited skills in the mechanical and maintenance areas (automotive, small engine, and light welding), extensive skills in construction (2 of my sons have worked as building contractors), animal husbandry (horses, cattle, goats, pigs, chickens, and turkeys), hunting and commercial-scale fishing (including skinning, dressing, butchering, and storing meat and fish), computer networking (more than enough to maintain a computer intranet in a grid-down situation for as long as the spare parts hold out), and the ability to construct and operate wood gasifiers to provide electrical power to a small community indefinitely. I have also managed a small security company in southern Michigan, so I thoroughly understand the procedures and professional obligations of a security contractor. We also possess an extensive survival library, a library of 19th Century technology, a good stockpile of heirloom seeds, and of course firearms and ammunition. As for our character, 1 thing that we share above all is integrity. Our word is our bond. Our preferred areas are southeastern Alaska and the Idaho-Montana-Wyoming area, although other sufficiently remote areas will be considered. My e-mail is graehame at hotmail dot com.

ggreg · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2012, 05:38:51 AM »

You have posted on the right internet forum and you certainly seem skilled up.

Best of luck. I have alternative skills and alternative plans. None of us know how things will change, slowly or quickly. All that we know for certain is that change will come because change is always happening. Black Swans are notoriously hard to predict and like throwing a pack of cards in the air it is impossible to know which way they will fall. Any plan needs to be able to cope with all the scenarios you list being wrong or fatally flawed.

Being a land owning or even food producing person in 1930s Russia/Ukraine put you are deadly risk of death through starvation or deportation to Siberia. Almost counter-intuitive.

It's not hard to imagine Obama or someone like him scapegoating homesteaders. Look at Waco. The people in power can do anything they like.

My plans revolve around working out who has the power in the changed world and working out what they need and how I can provide it (at a profit thereby making an income for myself) and therefore become a necessary part of the new political reality. If there is no way I can do that and remain moral then I'd just have to die.

But that was sure to happen anyway.

The breakdown of the Soviet Union is about the best model we have for modern times. A new elite very quickly establishes a new law and order. Food for thought.

Maizar · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2012, 05:45:12 AM »

Additional advice: be hidden in plain sight, never give away your identity on-line willingly and whatever you do, make it look normal and boring. You should know that they will be looking at movement patterns, browsing habits, communications logs, anything they can gather to figure out which civilians are interesting and which are not.

Perhaps being in the US at all is not good, actually. But wherever you go, make it a holiday destination or something, but then some place further from there make your retreat. You can't really hide, so just wear social camouflage.

Don't be interesting!

Graehame · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2012, 09:38:51 AM »

ggreg & Maizar-- Thank you both for your kind words.
ggreg-- "Any plan needs to be able to cope with all the scenarios you list being wrong or fatally flawed."
Good idea in principle, but of course impossible in practice. We're neither trying to plan for "everything" nor for eternity. We're simply trying to get a plan in place to cover some of the most likely scenarios over the next 2 to 3 generations, that's also flexible enough to cover a few of the unlikely ones. Better to be prepped for something than to be unprepped for everything.
"Being a land owning or even food producing person in 1930s Russia/Ukraine put you are deadly risk of death through starvation or deportation to Siberia. Almost counter-intuitive."
If things go in that direction-- which I admit is a possibility-- then no one's preps will be adequate. Which is why I listed southeast Alaska at the top of our list. It's a roadless area, sufficiently remote & off the grid for a small community to literally not exist as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
"Look at Waco. The people in power can do anything they like."
An excellent point. Which is why we need to avoid at all costs becoming another Waco.
"My plans revolve around working out who has the power in the changed world and working out what they need and how I can provide it (at a profit thereby making an income for myself) and therefore become a necessary part of the new political reality. If there is no way I can do that and remain moral then I'd just have to die."
Let's examine that for a moment. If "the new political reality" is oppressive-- & if it isn't then this conversation becomes rather pointless-- then by definition you can't become part of it without sacrificing your integrity, your morality, or both. Nor would you want to. Moreover, we're witnessing a greater & greater centralization of power. Those who hold it have already reached the point where they don't "need" anything that you or I can provide. I therefore can't accept your approach.
My thinking on this is that I can get my family far enough off the grid, & adequately self-sufficient in terms of skills & resources, for us to be overlooked while the new power structure-- if there is one-- consolidates its position. And if chaos ensues in the absence of a new power structure-- as I suspect that it might-- then to enable us to survive that period & to emerge on the other side in reasonably good shape.
...and Maizar-- "...be hidden in plain sight..."
That advice works moderately well for urbanites & suburbanites who are unable to relocate. But I believe that getting entirely off the grid & achieving a degree of self-sufficiency in a truly remote area is a superior strategy. We're prepared to do that both psychologically & in terms of our skill set, but we're hampered by funding.
"...never give away your identity on-line..."
Hard to build a network with 100% OPSEC. I believe that the value of a network makes it worthwhile to compromise security, provided you do it rarely & judiciously.
"...whatever you do, make it look normal and boring."
Excellent advice. I have an old Army buddy who lives by that motto, & keeps me constantly reminded of it.
"...they will be looking at movement patterns, browsing habits, communications logs, anything they can gather..."
...and unfortunately, with the advent of computer technology & miniaturization, "they" can now examine & correlate vastly more information than they could even 5 or 10 years ago. In the years to come it will only get worse. That's the most troubling thing about RFID chips, the coming Real ID program, GPS tracking of cell phones & vehicles, urban surveillance cameras, ultra-small surveillance drones, & all the rest-- that "they" now have the ability to actually examine & correlate all that information.
"Perhaps being in the US at all is not good, actually."
It isn't. Just better than all the alternatives.

Busillis · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2012, 10:24:28 AM »

Quote from: Maizar

Don't be interesting!

You need to follow this advice. Since I've gotten here I've probably read more of your posts than anybody elses. :wink:

I've read that using Tor is not completely safe.