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Offline cassini

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Remember the first man on the Moon?
« on: March 25, 2020, 12:11:37 PM »
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  • [font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oQG1wBZa78[/font][/url][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

    Now is the movie the fake or the man on the moon fake?


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #1 on: March 25, 2020, 02:16:16 PM »
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  • Man never went to the moon. Too ridiculous a claim. Never been even 10% duplicated by any industrialized nation (of which there are several) in 50 years. We've been stuck puttering around in Low Earth Orbit ever since.
    Next.

    Revolutionary advances in science aren't followed by "incubation" or "dormancy" periods of 50 years, during which time nothing is done with the technology, and in fact it is completely thrown away and lost! When airplanes were invented, they were immediately produced, developed, enhanced, and changed the world.

    And a new technology or achievement certainly isn't "lost" like NASA claims happened to their moon-landing technology. All the telemetry data for the "lunar visits" has been conveniently lost as well. That's the icing on the cake -- or more like the nail in the coffin. That beggars belief.

    That's why I don't have any -- belief, that is. Thanks to my common sense and big-picture outlook I'm too smart for their deception.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 05:48:44 PM »
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  • Man never went to the moon. Too ridiculous a claim. Never been even 10% duplicated by any industrialized nation (of which there are several) in 50 years. We've been stuck puttering around in Low Earth Orbit ever since.
    Next.

    Revolutionary advances in science aren't followed by "incubation" or "dormancy" periods of 50 years, during which time nothing is done with the technology, and in fact it is completely thrown away and lost! When airplanes were invented, they were immediately produced, developed, enhanced, and changed the world.

    And a new technology or achievement certainly isn't "lost" like NASA claims happened to their moon-landing technology. All the telemetry data for the "lunar visits" has been conveniently lost as well. That's the icing on the cake -- or more like the nail in the coffin. That beggars belief.

    That's why I don't have any -- belief, that is. Thanks to my common sense and big-picture outlook I'm too smart for their deception.
    Just wondering, then, what we are to make of this:
    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:E-QK2Jb29LsJ:https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2019/07/19/apollo-11-moon-landing-louisville-man-eavesdropped-mission-1969/1743648001/+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d
    (Sweet radio that guy's got there.  I, too, am a ham radio operator.)
    How a Louisville man eavesdropped on Neil Armstrong's historic Apollo 11 moon landing
    Using an army radio receiver and an antenna he had fashioned from aluminum, nylon and chicken wire, Larry Baysinger listened to history being made.
    Laurel Deppen, Courier Journal
    Published 6:35 a.m. ET July 19, 2019 | Updated 3:24 p.m. ET July 19, 2019


    On July 20, 1969, while America gathered around fuzzy, black-and-white televisions to watch the first moon landing, Larry Baysinger was listening in to the astronauts' radio chatter in a Louisville bedroom he had converted into a radio lab.
    Using an old Army radio receiver and an antenna he had fashioned from aluminum, nylon and chicken wire, Baysinger successfully eavesdropped on Apollo 11 crew members Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin.
    His lunar "experiment" would become what Baysinger remembers 50 years later as his "15 minutes of fame."
    Baysinger, a broadcast engineer and ham radio enthusiast, befriended then-Courier Journal reporter Glenn Rutherford. The pair bonded over a shared interest in space.
    When they learned NASA was preparing for manned space flights to the moon, an idea struck Baysinger.
    "We decided, 'Hey, that would be something nifty to listen in to, if possible,'" Baysinger said. "'I wonder if we could do that.'"
    If they were going to listen in on something, Apollo 11 was the "landmark occasion," Baysinger said.
    Related: You are using one of the Apollo 11 innovations right now
    Hearing it 'from the horse's mouth'

    Larry Baysinger sat next to shortwave monitoring radios in his home office. Baysinger is an ex-military radio operator who modified radio equipment to eavesdrop on communications during the first moon landing. July 18, 2019
    (Photo: Sam Upshaw Jr./Courier Journal)

    The possibility of hearing something historic from the moon landing that wouldn't be broadcast to the masses piqued Baysinger's interest.
    "By golly, let's see if we can hear it from the horse's mouth, and we proved once and for all that this is really where it’s coming from and what it is," Baysinger recalled. "That led to this whole endeavor."
    He spent a great deal of time and effort designing and building what eventually would become an 8-foot-by-8-foot-by-8-foot triangular-shaped antenna centered in his backyard. He could tilt it up and down and side to side to angle it at the moon, a quarter of a million miles away.
    To test the system before the moon landing, Baysinger received test transmissions some ham radio operators were making.
    "Moon bounce," Baysinger called them. "You would send a signal up to the moon, bounce it off of the moon, and receive it when it came back, and you could be reasonably sure that’s what you were receiving because of the delay between the outgoing and the incoming signals."
    Baysinger said it was fortunate that ham radio publications at the time produced information on how to listen in, including the frequencies of the astronaut's backpack radios.
    See also: Washington Monument lit up with projection of Apollo 11 rocket
    'There was Neil Armstrong's voice'

    Larry Baysinger looks over the antenna he designed and built in his backyard to receive voice communications from the Apollo astronauts during their walk on the lunar surface of the moon. Photo by Jay Thomas, The Courier-Journal. July 21, 1969
    (Photo: Photo by Jay Thomas, The Courier-Journal)

    The day of the moon landing, Baysinger and Rutherford crowded into his bedroom-turned-control-room while his wife and daughter watched the event on the living room's television down the hall.
    He was "constantly" worried the project wouldn't work, he said with a laugh.
    "I’m a ham," Baysinger said. "We’re used to failure. … You do with what you got, and you make it work — even in spite of the fact that it’s not supposed to."
    As the moon moved, the pair had to move the antenna so they wouldn't lose the signal.
    At one point, Baysinger and Rutherford left the antenna and went into another room, thinking Baysinger's dream wouldn't come true.
    Then Rutherford went back into the control room — and heard something on the radio. He called Baysinger in, telling him he thought he heard something.
    "And, lo and behold, there was Neil Armstrong’s voice," Rutherford told the BBC.
    The signal wasn't of high quality, but it worked, Baysinger said.
    "We could hear the television coming down the hall, and our first realization that we were actually hearing what was going on is when we heard it coming back off the TV down the hall, and it was the same thing we had just heard a few seconds ago," Baysinger said.
    A national effort: Apollo 11 moon landing was made possible by 400,000 workers
    Baysinger and Rutherford took steps to make sure what they were hearing was actually coming from the moon and not just a signal from the television broadcast.
    The pair moved the antenna several times to ensure its accuracy.
    All told, Baysinger recorded about 35 minutes of conversation between the Apollo 11 astronauts.
    The recording only included the communication between the astronauts, without the responses from NASA. This demonstrated that the signals Baysinger picked up were from the astronauts themselves and not from NASA's broadcast, he said.
    What he heard was Armstrong and Aldrin talking to each other on the moon's surface, captured on the recording.
    The two astronauts were discussing the moon's visibility and condition of the soil when Armstrong and Aldrin had a brief interruption.
    "Uh, Buzz, you're on the cable," Armstrong said, as a nation, and Baysinger, listened.
    Afterward, Baysinger and Rutherford "didn't keep a secret" about their eavesdropping, Baysinger said.
    Rutherford docuмented his experience listening to the moon landing with Baysinger for the Courier Journal in an article titled "Lunar Eavesdropping."
    The far side of the moon: What is it, why we might grow potatoes there
    'Gosh, we did it. … It worked'
    Radio operator Larry Baysinger, of Louisville, eavesdropped on the first moon landing on July 20, 1969. Courier Journal
    Baysinger's feat faded into the background of history until Chris Graney, a professor of physics and astronomy at Jefferson Community and Technical College, happened to have a conversation with Rutherford.
    In 2009, Rutherford was working as an assistant editor of the Record, a Catholic newspaper for the Central Kentucky area. He interviewed Graney about his research of history and astronomy at JCTC.
    As the men spoke, Graney said their conversation shifted into a discussion of unusual science in Louisville. Rutherford brought up Baysinger's moon landing radio project.
    Graney's interest was piqued, though at first he said he was skeptical because he'd never heard of it. He said he asked Rutherford if the story had been published in the Courier Journal.
    Immediately, Graney found himself in the University of Louisville library looking through microfilm to find the article.
    Graney, who said he always had an interest in the history of astronomy, took time to learn more. What he learned from exchanging phone calls and emails with Baysinger and Rutherford was published in 2010 in an article for the National Association of Amateur Radio.
    Read this: Neil Armstrong's close friend reveals a different side of legend

    Copy photo of a room called a "ham radio shack" by Larry Baysinger. Baysinger is an ex-military radio operator who modified radio equipment to eavesdrop on communications during the first moon landing. July 18, 2019
    (Photo: Photo courtesy of Larry Baysinger)

    Graney has tried to find records of other Apollo 11 eavesdropping projects other than Baysinger's in the years since. He hasn't found any.
    Though Graney suspects there were probably other Apollo 11 projects like "Lunar Eavesdropping," he said Baysinger's was the only one recorded with an article and the original audio digitized and shared.
    What Baysinger was able to accomplish was a scientific achievement because the project served as an independent verification of the Apollo mission, a "big deal" in science, Graney said.
    Some still question whether what Baysinger and Rutherford picked up 50 years ago was from the moon. Graney, who had been in touch with ham radio operators who tested the validity of Baysinger's project, said it was just barely doable.
    "If you listen carefully, the audio is not exactly the same as what’s coming from NASA," Graney said. "I think you don’t hear the ground control because you’re hearing the backpack-to-backpack communications."
    And he did it all in Louisville.
    "That’s kind of a unique science thing and done by … an average Joe right, not someone with a big budget or a contract from the government or something like that," Graney said. "Just a guy who wanted to do kind of a science thing and who wanted to make sure we were getting the full story."
    Fifty years later, Baysinger looks back on his Apollo 11 experiment with "jubilation."
    "Gosh, we did it," Baysinger said. "… It worked."
    Reach Laurel Deppen at ldeppen@gannett.com or follow her on Twitter at @laurel_deppen.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 06:44:15 PM »
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  • No one is arguing that the astronauts didn't even leave the planet.  However, if they were only in orbit around earth, there would be radio chatter.  I don't see how this story in any way addresses Matthew's main points, all of which are rather damning.  20 years ago I saw a docuмentary that had been aired on Australian public television.  It made an excellent case that the lunar landing was faked.  
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 07:26:27 PM »
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  • No one is arguing that the astronauts didn't even leave the planet.  However, if they were only in orbit around earth, there would be radio chatter.  I don't see how this story in any way addresses Matthew's main points, all of which are rather damning.  20 years ago I saw a docuмentary that had been aired on Australian public television.  It made an excellent case that the lunar landing was faked.  
    True, it could have been faked dialogue, transmitted from earth orbit, precisely to create radio transmissions to deceive anyone who might need to be deceived.  I'll buy that, as a theoretical possibility.

    I like to play a game that I call "Six-Word Headlines".  One possibility:

    Armstrong Deathbed Confession: Moon Landing Faked


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 10:25:46 PM »
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  • Have you ever seen footage from their first interview?  They supposedly just did the most amazing thing ever, yet they all look like guilty little children.  Then they ALL retire shortly thereafter and are hardly ever heard from again.  Passing strange.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Greenways Flyer

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #6 on: March 26, 2020, 02:43:13 AM »
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  • Boomers have a strong affective and cognitive attachment to the fake moonlandings.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #7 on: March 26, 2020, 08:28:29 AM »
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  •  What interested me with the moonlanding, fake or not, is the depth of moondust found or used.  Consider this for what its worth: When we were told that men were to be sent to the moon, scientists said that the moon is 4.6 billion years old, so, because of meteors and falling cosmic dust at today’s calculated rate, with no atmosphere to burn them/it, no water or wind to cement or pack them/it, there could be up to 35 feet of dust in places on its surface, making it difficult to land. Two probes, Ranger and Surveyor, constructed with long legs for the deep dust, were sent to investigate. Indeed, Neil Armstrong, said by NASA to be the first man on the moon, stated that his greatest fear was the lunar dust awaiting him. As it turned out they tell us they found - or used - only an inch of powder evenly distributed on the moon’s surface, 6,000 years of it if current calculations of meteor dust falling on the moon are accurate and correct.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #8 on: March 26, 2020, 08:35:56 AM »
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  • Have you ever seen footage from their first interview?  They supposedly just did the most amazing thing ever, yet they all look like guilty little children.  Then they ALL retire shortly thereafter and are hardly ever heard from again.  Passing strange.
    Can't speak for the others, but I always thought Neil Armstrong acted a little weird, and not to sound uncharitable, but he came across as kind of a jerk --- enigmatic, wouldn't talk about the things you would expect him to talk about.  Hard to say.  I'm not going so far as to say I don't believe in the moon landings, but there are things that just don't make sense -- first of all, why hasn't anyone ever been back?  With all the technological advances that have been made since then, computing power and otherwise, it would be far easier than it was back then, wouldn't it?

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #9 on: March 26, 2020, 09:20:30 AM »
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  •   I'm not going so far as to say I don't believe in the moon landings, but there are things that just don't make sense -- first of all, why hasn't anyone ever been back? 
    Yup.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #10 on: March 26, 2020, 12:11:06 PM »
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  •   I'm not going so far as to say I don't believe in the moon landings, but there are things that just don't make sense -- first of all, why hasn't anyone ever been back?  

    Obvious, nothing to do, no shops or supermarkets to buy grub, take too long to grow spuds on the dark side, and they didn't get paid until they returned. Now if they found gold there, they would have gone back.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #11 on: March 26, 2020, 01:17:32 PM »
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  • Obvious, nothing to do, no shops or supermarkets to buy grub, take too long to grow spuds on the dark side, and they didn't get paid until they returned. Now if they found gold there, they would have gone back.
    You mean they don't have 7-Eleven or Circle K up there?  Well, forget it, then!  I wouldn't go back either :jester:

    Seriously, you would think we'd have a full-blown moon colony up there, to test out in a much more accessible environment, how it would be to build such a colony from scratch on Mars.  You would think.  Are there any minerals or metals up there we could use?  Industrial production in 15% gravity?  Even space tourism?  ("My parents went to the moon and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"?)

    And they lost the data? 

    I questioned this one time, and was informed by no less authority than the widow of a retired staff sergeant, that anyone who asks such questions is "a bad citizen".   So there you have it.  Case closed.

    Things that make you go hmmmm.....

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #12 on: March 26, 2020, 02:31:14 PM »
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  • Can't speak for the others, but I always thought Neil Armstrong acted a little weird, and not to sound uncharitable, but he came across as kind of a jerk --- enigmatic, wouldn't talk about the things you would expect him to talk about.  Hard to say.  I'm not going so far as to say I don't believe in the moon landings, but there are things that just don't make sense -- first of all, why hasn't anyone ever been back?  With all the technological advances that have been made since then, computing power and otherwise, it would be far easier than it was back then, wouldn't it?
    The excuses they had at first just don't hold up anymore -- and haven't for decades!
    "People were sick of the moon landings. Towards the end, people wanted to watch 'I Love Lucy' and resented when Moon Landings would pre-empt their TV shows."

    The fact of the matter is, if you even REMEMBER any of the moon landings happening on live TV, you must be at least 60 years old, and that isn't young, let me tell you! Pretty soon only the residents of nursing homes will remember them.

    When you discover something, or make a breakthrough, you have to "exercise it" every 50 years at least, just so the knowledge isn't completely lost! Even if you get absolutely zero practical benefit from it.

    Even Baby Boomers aren't sick of watching moon landings anymore! It's been what, 46 years since 1974? I think they're done being "sick of it".
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #13 on: March 26, 2020, 02:33:11 PM »
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  • Have you ever seen footage from their first interview?  They supposedly just did the most amazing thing ever, yet they all look like guilty little children.  Then they ALL retire shortly thereafter and are hardly ever heard from again.  Passing strange.
    This.
    And refusing to swear on the Bible that you went to the moon -- punching the guy in the face instead? Very suspicious.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Remember the first man on the Moon?
    « Reply #14 on: March 26, 2020, 02:35:21 PM »
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  • Boomers have a strong affective and cognitive attachment to the fake moonlandings.

    I have observed this as well. It's "their generation" that "did it" and it makes them better than all the generations that came after them. They are emotionally attached.

    It makes a good joke. "My generation went to the moon. Millennials came up with Snapchat."

    Kind of like Vatican II. Vatican II will never be thrown in the dustbin of history until all Baby Boomers are dead. That's when we'll be able to move on and rectify the mistakes of the 1960's. The Baby Boomers are all committed to those mistakes for life -- they are "all-in". And those Boomers now make up the majority of bishops, cardinals, and popes.
    Apologies to the Baby Boomers here on CI ;)
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