Author Topic: Protestants are not Christians (Read 9926 times)

ajpirc · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2011, 01:39:46 PM »

Quote from: Daegus

If that person isn't banned already, they will be banned promptly upon the mods discovering of this post. Saying that Protestants aren't Christians isn't "charitable".

It's not about charity to them; it's about promoting the destruction of ecuмenism.

Quote

I may be permanently banned from CAF for circuмventing a suspension (see, the first thing they do is permanently ban me because they're afraid of having me back to expose the VII anti-church again), but that won't change the fact that Protestants (along with the CAF heretical VII sect, infidels and schismatics like the "Orthodox") are going to inevitably be banned from heaven for all eternity if they don't change their ways.

I started a group for young traditional Catholics on CAF about a month ago and it is packed!!! 32 people already!!! Someone on there was talking about why there aren't many traditional Catholics on there. They said that the moderators try to ban them as quickly as possible. Anymore traditional comments from me and I'll be banned, too. I'm already suspended for 2 weeks.

ajpirc · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:18:55 PM »

Please, Don’t Call Protestants Christians

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:37:23 PM »

CAF is just a joke. You can't even discuss sedevacantism there.

Daegus · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:50:24 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

CAF is just a joke. You can't even discuss sedevacantism there.

Actually, you can. As long as no sedevacantist is allowed to respond to any objections our "Catholic" friends make, discussion is allowed. If a sedevacantist or any ordinary Trad (not pseudo-trad) posts there, they are banned by virtue of the fact that they're trad.

Isn't it funny how the discussion forums that ban sedevacantism like FE and CAF are both very quick to say sedevacantists are heretics, schismatics, Protestants, etc? It's almost as if they're afraid that sedevacantism could be right, which is why they resist it so much.

I find it depressing how people can actually say I'm "extreme" for calling the Novus Ordo a cult and a sect. This sect is not Catholic and does not refute the errors of the world. Instead, it embraces ALL OF THEM and shuns the Truth. Places like CAF are not Catholic and therefore are not to be trusted. Everything they say to you must be taken with a grain of salt, as many of them mix truth with lies; unknowingly and knowingly. Whatever god they are worshiping is not Jesus Christ. Their god is a devil and their religion is not to be trusted. Truly, I will say that their religion is watched over by the devil of modernism and all of its manifold errors.

Daegus · « **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:57:27 PM »

Being banned by CAF and FE mods for discussing sedevacantism with anything other than a condemnatory point of view of it is cult-like behavior.

Daegus · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2011, 07:33:30 AM »

I just noticed that I called clare Myrna. Woopsie!

MyrnaM · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2011, 08:36:22 AM »

I noticed that too, yesterday, but knew it was a mistake so I let it slide.

Getting back to those quotes, I wonder if the popes were speaking of the different Rites? Don't know just asking.

My opinion is anyone who is the state of Sanctifying grace is a Christian, but the problem with Protestants, once they loose that grace, without the sacraments, they can't be restored to it, without perfect act of contrition.

ajpirc · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2011, 08:48:39 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Getting back to those quotes, I wonder if the popes were speaking of the different Rites?

Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

Quote

What we say here of the universal Church must also be affirmed of individual Christian communities, whether Oriental or Latin, which together form one single Catholic Church: they, too, are governed by Christ Jesus through the word and the jurisdiction of each of their own bishops....But they will do so, not as entirely independent, but as submissive to the legitimate authority of the Roman Pontiff, although they enjoy the ordinary power of jurisdiction immediately conveyed to them by the same Supreme Pontiff.

Pope Pius XII is saying that the different Rites, Latin or Oriental, are the Christian Communities that make up the universal Church.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2011, 09:59:38 AM »

I think it would be very had for most Protestants to obtain salvation. Look at how many of them blaspheme Our Lady. They must not be capable of thinking clearly in terms of religious knowledge (something they lack), otherwise they'd realize they're speaking horribly about Christ's own Mother. Not to mention that alot of them love cutting down the Catholic Faith, such as that smear campagin they used against the Catholic Church during the Spanish Inquisition.

s2srea · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:31:02 AM »

I'm going to tread lightly here.

I believe that there are some missing important points, or at least a strong lack of clarification. Hobble and other's would be of great value here.

First of all, the word "Christian" is ambiguous. Yes, a true Christian is a Catholic- I do not deny this. In Catholic theology, the words "Catholic" and "Christian" are co-extensive; that is, they identical as the subject and predicated of a strict definition are identical, so that no man not a Christian is a Catholic and so that every man who is a Catholic is ipso facto a Christian.

However, to regard Protestants as non-Christians is wrong I believe. And this is where Clare's quotes of the Holy Fathers are useful. Why then would they have regarded them as "Christians"? Were they wrong to do so? Why?

If they are not Christians, what are they? They profess Christ, though imperfectly. So though they may not be saved, or have a harder time being saved, this does not mean they do not believe in the divinity of Christ.

I think some here are confusing what being a "Christian" is with whether or not someone is a member of the "Church" and "Mystical Body of Christ".

ajpirc · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2011, 12:56:44 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I'm going to tread lightly here.

I believe that there are some missing important points, or at least a strong lack of clarification. Hobble and other's would be of great value here.

First of all, the word "Christian" is ambiguous. Yes, a true Christian is a Catholic- I do not deny this. In Catholic theology, the words "Catholic" and "Christian" are co-extensive; that is, they identical as the subject and predicated of a strict definition are identical, so that no man not a Christian is a Catholic and so that every man who is a Catholic is ipso facto a Christian.

However, to regard Protestants as non-Christians is wrong I believe. And this is where Clare's quotes of the Holy Fathers are useful. Why then would they have regarded them as "Christians"? Were they wrong to do so? Why?

If they are not Christians, what are they? They profess Christ, though imperfectly. So though they may not be saved, or have a harder time being saved, this does not mean they do not believe in the divinity of Christ.

I think some here are confusing what being a "Christian" is with whether or not someone is a member of the "Church" and "Mystical Body of Christ".

I understand where you're coming from, but I would have to disagree.

Pope Leo XIII's Satis Cognitum:

Quote

Another head like to Christ must be invented - that is, another Christ - if besides the one Church, which is His body, men wish to set up another.

Protestants have invented a different Christ to be the head over their invented body of believers. They do not accept the same Christ that we accept as our Lord. They accept a false Christ that suits them as Divine. Both Catholics and Protestants are Christians in two different ways. We are both Christians in which we both worship someone who claim to be the Christ, but they are two different Christ's and therefore two different religions called "Christian," where the Catholic Church alone can be the true Christianity.

I hope this made sense for everybody.

s2srea · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2011, 04:06:56 PM »

ajpirc-

yes that was very good. However, you still admit the ambiguity of the word Christian: two different religions called "Christian,".

I was not trying to distinguish whether they were true Christians or not, I was speaking about the semantics of the word "Christian." They are still called Christians, regardless that we know they are not 'true' Christians. Is it inherently evil or even wrong to call them 'Christians'? I don't think so. Hence, the quotes of the Holy Fathers which Clare provided proved this point. But yes, its good for us to know the difference between a "Protestant Christian" and a "Catholic (True) Christian".

Daegus · « **Reply #27 on:** July 15, 2011, 04:46:41 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I'm going to tread lightly here.

I believe that there are some missing important points, or at least a strong lack of clarification. Hobble and other's would be of great value here.

First of all, the word "Christian" is ambiguous. Yes, a true Christian is a Catholic- I do not deny this. In Catholic theology, the words "Catholic" and "Christian" are co-extensive; that is, they identical as the subject and predicated of a strict definition are identical, so that no man not a Christian is a Catholic and so that every man who is a Catholic is ipso facto a Christian.

However, to regard Protestants as non-Christians is wrong I believe. And this is where Clare's quotes of the Holy Fathers are useful. Why then would they have regarded them as "Christians"? Were they wrong to do so? Why?

If they are not Christians, what are they? They profess Christ, though imperfectly. So though they may not be saved, or have a harder time being saved, this does not mean they do not believe in the divinity of Christ.

I think some here are confusing what being a "Christian" is with whether or not someone is a member of the "Church" and "Mystical Body of Christ".

Mormons also profess Christ. Are they Christians too? SDA cultists also profess Christ. Are they Christians too? Jehovah's Witness also profess Christ. Are they Christians too? I could go on...

Just because a group professes Christ that does not make them Christian. If you do not want to promote an attitude of religious indifferentism (and that is, btw, what will happen if you keep calling Protestants Christians when they are not), you should not refer to them as such. Why would anyone want to join the Catholic Church if every "church" (faith community) is "Christian"? This is actually the mentality that Protestants have. They don't try to convert each other anywhere near as much as they try to convert us. The Conciliar Church believing that everyone falls under the Church of Christ is exactly why no one wants to convert, and those that do don't make sincere conversions. Religious indifferentism is like a black hole. It just sucks everything in until there's nothing left.

ajpirc · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2011, 05:48:20 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

ajpirc-

yes that was very good. However, you still admit the ambiguity of the word Christian: two different religions called "Christian,".

I was not trying to distinguish whether they were true Christians or not, I was speaking about the semantics of the word "Christian." They are still called Christians, regardless that we know they are not 'true' Christians. Is it inherently evil or even wrong to call them 'Christians'? I don't think so. Hence, the quotes of the Holy Fathers which Clare provided proved this point. But yes, its good for us to know the difference between a "Protestant Christian" and a "Catholic (True) Christian".

I'm glad to see we're on the same page here. I think I agree, but am not quite sure.

Comparing Protestant (False) Christians and Catholic (True) Christians would be like comparing the Old Testament (True) Jєωs and today's "Pharisaic rabbinism" (False) Jєωs. They call themselves Jєωs, but they're not true Jєωs. I guess that wouldn't really be a good metaphor, but it was the best I came up with.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2011, 08:20:03 PM »

In my opinion, Protestants who want to please Christ and think they're doing the right thing (and Prots who would convert to Catholicism in a heartbeat if they knew it was the True Faith) could be regarded as Christians as long as they didn't use blasphemy or remain in mortal sin.