Author Topic: Protestants are not Christians  (Read 8842 times)

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Offline Daegus

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Protestants are not Christians
« on: July 12, 2011, 07:52:56 PM »
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  • You know.. For quite a while now I've been saying that Protestants are heretics which is all good and true, but never did it ever occur to me that because Protestants are heretics, they are not Christian at all.

    As we all know, Protestants are deemed to be schismatics and heretics by the most Holy Roman Church. At the same time, we still have some people referring to them as Christians, when St. Robert Bellarmine describes why this is impossible:

    "A manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and others."

    By this very statement we can conclude that Protestants are not Christian and should not be referred to as such. It doesn't matter what Benedict XVI or any of the other post-Conciliar popes say Protestants and the schismatic "Orthodox" are not Christian.

    I'm sure that this is not a big revelation to most people here, but I never realized that I was calling Protestants Christian this whole time. I just thought I'd share for all others who may not realize that they are calling Protestants that which they are not.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline ajpirc

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 08:15:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Daegus
    "A manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and others."


    What is a "manifest heretic?"
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev


    Offline Sigismund

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 08:48:58 PM »
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  • I don't think most Protestants are manifest heretics.  They are material heretics, but not formal ones.  Most really don't know any better.  Most Orthodox certainly are not heretics.  Once again, they are material schismatics, but not formal ones.  Luther was a formal heretic.  Most modern Lutherans are not.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline ajpirc

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 09:09:36 PM »
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  • Difference between formal and material?
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline Daegus

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 09:17:40 PM »
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  • A manifest heretic is anyone who openly professes heresy and remains obstinate in it. Most Protestants would not convert to the Catholic faith even if you told them that their beliefs were heretical and proved to them that they are. You need to understand that the vast majority of people are not good-willed and are influenced not by truth, but by emotionalism and convenience. Protestants are manifest heretics and are OPENLY in denial of the Roman Church. You cannot say that these people do not know what they are doing if they have the use of reason. In fact, their very identity is contingent upon their contradistinction with us, the true Church of Christ-- The Holy Roman Church. They ARE heretics. If they were not heretics, their identity would rest upon being in denial with us.

    Btw, "material" heretic and formal heretic (as is commonly defined) are both myths. This is an argument that N.O. Catholics use to "refute" any doubt sedes have about whether or not the past few claimants to the papacy have been legitimate (and I'm not a sede btw, I'm just saying). A material heretic is not a heretic at all. Formal heretics are just heretics, plain and simple. Saying "formal" is just redundant, really.

    While I don't recommend the Dimond Brothers for most things, they do have very good info among their many bad seeds. See here for refutation of material heretic:




    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 09:34:25 PM »
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  • Daegus is right in saying that Protestants who are shown their faith is heretical yet stick to it anyway are manifest heretics and therefore aren't real Christians. I'm still trying to convert my Protestant father. I have refuted many of his beliefs and got him to admit the Catholic Church came before the Protestants churches...but no conversion in sight. Stubborn people like that rarely ever convert. It's quite interesting to debate with him, though. I once single-handedly blew him out of the water so bad in a religious debate that he was literally begging me to stop talking about it. He can't even defend his own faith that well (he always brings up the same points) so refuting him is easier than refuting your average Protestant.

    Offline Man of the West

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 12:17:54 AM »
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  • I agree that Protestants (i.e. today's Protestant followers, not the originating heresiarchs themselves) are not Christians and should not be referred to as such. They are best and most charitably described as people who have heard rumors of Christianity; rumors which, given their generally confused and pagan mindsets, they have adopted into their own Pantheon and supplemented with a cultus engineered after their own fashion. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that they are NOT right now Christians, and if they wish truly to become Christians they must convert to Apostolic Christianity. This simple semantic shift would go a long way toward addressing the "ecumenical" problem.

    On the other hand, if the shift is not made (as it is not in the NO Church) nothing can prevent Chrisianity from deteriorating into whatever anybody thinks it ought to be. This is basically the situation that obtains today over both the Novus Ordo and mainstream Protestantism. If you listen to the popular megachurch leaders of the moment (e.g. Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer) it is difficult to detect any trace of Christianity in their program, other than some Whiggish interpretation of the Scriptures and a vague notion that Jesus is Lord. However, if they practice what they know with a sincere heart, they will no doubt merit the grace of a true conversion. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from the dearth of conversions is that very few Protestants are sincere.
    Confronting modernity from the depths of the human spirit, in communion with Christ the King.

    Offline herbert

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 03:16:15 AM »
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  • intersting thread!

    im waiting for someone to disagree


    Offline Baskerville

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 05:21:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Daegus
    You know.. For quite a while now I've been saying that Protestants are heretics which is all good and true, but never did it ever occur to me that because Protestants are heretics, they are not Christian at all.

    As we all know, Protestants are deemed to be schismatics and heretics by the most Holy Roman Church. At the same time, we still have some people referring to them as Christians, when St. Robert Bellarmine describes why this is impossible:

    "A manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and others."

    By this very statement we can conclude that Protestants are not Christian and should not be referred to as such. It doesn't matter what Benedict XVI or any of the other post-Conciliar popes say Protestants and the schismatic "Orthodox" are not Christian.

    I'm sure that this is not a big revelation to most people here, but I never realized that I was calling Protestants Christian this whole time. I just thought I'd share for all others who may not realize that they are calling Protestants that which they are not.


    The same can be said for the last five Popes their religion isn't Catholicism but a big tent New World Order Religion where all are equal.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 07:54:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Baskerville
    Quote from: Daegus
    You know.. For quite a while now I've been saying that Protestants are heretics which is all good and true, but never did it ever occur to me that because Protestants are heretics, they are not Christian at all.

    As we all know, Protestants are deemed to be schismatics and heretics by the most Holy Roman Church. At the same time, we still have some people referring to them as Christians, when St. Robert Bellarmine describes why this is impossible:

    "A manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and others."

    By this very statement we can conclude that Protestants are not Christian and should not be referred to as such. It doesn't matter what Benedict XVI or any of the other post-Conciliar popes say Protestants and the schismatic "Orthodox" are not Christian.

    I'm sure that this is not a big revelation to most people here, but I never realized that I was calling Protestants Christian this whole time. I just thought I'd share for all others who may not realize that they are calling Protestants that which they are not.


    The same can be said for the last five Popes their religion isn't Catholicism but a big tent New World Order Religion where all are equal.


    Couldn't have said it better!

    Offline clare

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 10:01:54 AM »
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  • Make of this what you will:

    Quote
    It is therefore by force of the right of Our supreme Apostolic ministry, entrusted to us by the same Christ the Lord, which, having to carry out with [supreme] participation all the duties of the good Shepherd and to follow and embrace with paternal love all the men of the world, we send this Letter of Ours to all the Christians from whom We are separated, with which we exhort them warmly and beseech them with insistence to hasten to return to the one fold of Christ; we desire in fact from the depths of the heart their salvation in Christ Jesus, and we fear having to render an account one day to Him, Our Judge, if, through some possibility, we have not pointed out and prepared the way for them to attain eternal salvation.

    - Pope Pius IX.

    Quote
    In every age it has been the concern of the Roman Pontiffs, Our predecessors, and likewise it concerns Us greatly, that Christians who have, unfortunately, withdrawn from the Catholic Religion should at length be recalled to us as a forsaken Mother.

    - Pope Benedict XV.

    Quote
    This world-wide and solemn testimony of allegiance and piety is especially appropriate to Jesus Christ, who is the Head and Supreme Lord of the race. His empire extends not only over Catholic nations and those who, having been duly washed in the waters of holy baptism, belong of right to the Church, although erroneous opinions keep them astray, or dissent from her teaching cuts them off from her care; it comprises also all those who are deprived of the Christian faith, so that the whole human race is most truly under the power of Jesus Christ.

    - Pope Leo XIII.

    Notice, the Leo XIII quote distinguishes between baptised persons in error and people deprived of the Christian faith, as though they are two different things.


    Offline ajpirc

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 10:55:01 AM »
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  • What makes one a "Christian?" CAFer's say one who is baptized and believes in the Trinity.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline Daegus

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 11:11:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: ajpirc
    What makes one a "Christian?" CAFer's say one who is baptized and believes in the Trinity.


    Only Catholics are Christians. No one else.

    That disqualifies ALL Protestants, ALL Eastern "Orthodox", ALL cults like the Mormons and JWs, and ESPECIALLY the Novus Ordo sectarian religion, which is not Catholic at all.

    The Novus Ordo may have valid sacraments and what have you, but the beliefs that follow the N.O. are not Catholic. Plain and simple.

    Myrna: Those quotes should be read carefully, lest we take things out of context. None of those Popes would ever say anyone who was obstinate in their denial of the Catholic faith is Christian. It doesn't even look as though they're saying that.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline ajpirc

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 12:40:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Daegus
    Only Catholics are Christians. No one else.


    One of my favorite parts of the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X implies this:

    Quote
    32 Q: What should a Christian do who has been given a Bible by a Protestant or by an agent of the Protestants?
    A: A Christian to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church. If it was accepted by inadvertence, it must be burnt as soon as possible or handed in to the Parish Priest.


    I was going to bring this up on CAF a few weeks ago, but decided not to. When the Catechism says "What should a Christian do...", it means "What should a Catholic do..." If it answered it like, "A Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust..." then why would a Protestant reject his own heretical Bible? Why would an Orthodox listen to the Pope on what he should do with a Protestant Bible? This clearly sounds like the Catechism of Pope St. Pius is calling only Catholics Christians.

    Also, I actually heard someone on CAF saying that Protestants aren't Christians because a Christian is one who follows Christ and His teachings. They said Protestants can't be Christians because they do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church which are Christ's teachings and because the Catholic Church is Christ's body.
    "If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel." --St. Francis of Assisi (later quoted by St. John Vianney)

    "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of ev

    Offline Daegus

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    Protestants are not Christians
    « Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 01:11:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: ajpirc

    Also, I actually heard someone on CAF saying that Protestants aren't Christians because a Christian is one who follows Christ and His teachings. They said Protestants can't be Christians because they do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church which are Christ's teachings and because the Catholic Church is Christ's body.


    If that person isn't banned already, they will be banned promptly upon the mods discovering of this post. Saying that Protestants aren't Christians isn't "charitable".

    :barf:

    I may be permanently banned from CAF for circumventing a suspension (see, the first thing they do is permanently ban me because they're afraid of having me back to expose the VII anti-church again), but that won't change the fact that Protestants (along with the CAF heretical VII sect, infidels and schismatics like the "Orthodox") are going to inevitably be banned from heaven for all eternity if they don't change their ways.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

     

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