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Author Topic: Predestination  (Read 3381 times)

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Offline JCRev2033

Re: Predestination
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2024, 02:32:54 AM »
Quote from: Predestination on September 15, 2024, 05:14:39 PM
This is irrelelvant the two statement I posted were de fide dogmas, again you just have to believe them.


  • God, by His eternal resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness. (De fide)
  • God, by an eternal resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen sins, to eternal rejection. (De fide)
Predestination means God is the cause of our salvation. He is not the direct cause of our reprobation prior to foreseen sins, as Calvinists believe. So double predestination is certainly wrong. St. Paul says nothing whatsoever about a supposed double predestination or predestination to Hell. He mentions only predestination to grace, which is justification, and predestination to glory, which is salvation. Yes, we are predestined, because God is the cause of our salvation. When Almighty God delivered His people from Pharoah, He was the cause of their deliverance/salvation. But as for those who wanted to remain behind in Egypt/slavery/sin or perished in the desert, or pharoah himself, he or they were their own cause of destruction. So predestination is from God, but reprobation from satan or from self. This is how Thomists like Cardinal Journet explain it. See also the verse: "Destruction is thy own, 0 Israel: thy help is only in me." (Hosea 13:9). So predestination is true and Catholic, whereas double predestination is an error/heresy.
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Offline Predestination

Re: Predestination
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2024, 02:51:21 AM »
Quote from: JCRev2033 on September 17, 2024, 02:32:54 AM
Predestination means God is the cause of our salvation. He is not the direct cause of our reprobation prior to foreseen sins, as Calvinists believe. So double predestination is certainly wrong. St. Paul says nothing whatsoever about a supposed double predestination or predestination to Hell. He mentions only predestination to grace, which is justification, and predestination to glory, which is salvation. Yes, we are predestined, because God is the cause of our salvation. When Almighty God delivered His people from Pharoah, He was the cause of their deliverance/salvation. But as for those who wanted to remain behind in Egypt/slavery/sin or perished in the desert, or pharoah himself, he or they were their own cause of destruction. So predestination is from God, but reprobation from satan or from self. This is how Thomists like Cardinal Journet explain it. See also the verse: "Destruction is thy own, 0 Israel: thy help is only in me." (Hosea 13:9). So predestination is true and Catholic, whereas double predestination is an error/heresy.
Hello friend - I think you are misunderstanding the definition of double predestination. Double predestination is not the Calvinist idea of equal ultimacy. The term double predestination was first used by st Isidore of Seville who said - 

“Predestination is double (gemina) whether of election to peace, or of reprobation to death.’ The same thing, therefore, (with others) I believe and confess, though whatever may happen, with those who are the elect of God and true Catholics, according as I am helped by divine inspiration, encouragement and provision. Amen.”
(Sentent. 2. cap. 6) 

the difference is whether positive reprobation is consequent (dogma) or antecedent (heresy).


God bless you,

also why is everyone assuming I’m trying to get on the bad side of people for posting Lagrange? Again Matthew if you want me to I will move this to a more fitting thread all you have to do is tell me to.

God bless
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Offline Predestination

Re: Predestination
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2024, 02:52:22 AM »
Quote from: Yeti on September 16, 2024, 07:10:39 PM
.

:laugh1:

It's always fun when some bright, eager young fanatic joins the forum and just hits the ground running like this, trying to get on the bad side of as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time.

Anyone want to make a betting pool on how long it takes for this guy to flame out? ("Flame out" is an expression with multiple possible meanings. All are intended. :laugh1:)

:popcorn:
I don’t want to get on peoples bad side sorry if I came off like that

:laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Predestination
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2024, 07:41:58 AM »
Many minds have been tainted by "modernism" as it is called. Predestination, as you have understood it, is indeed a Catholic dogma and anyone who reads Father Garrigou Lagrange's book on that would be set straight, but, again, the rot is deep. Understanding the topic explains a lot, about "modernism," doctrinal decay,etc. It is a very important topic. 

You might find this thread interesting: 

God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants - page 1 - The Feeneyism Ghetto - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)

Somewhere in there is a citation of a sermon on the "Catholic dogma of predestination" by Bishop Sanborn which, like Father GL's book, is a healthy counter to the rot. I'll try to post the link to Bishop Sanborn's sermon for you.

God Bless,

DR
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Predestination
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2024, 07:43:23 AM »
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