Author Topic: Poll: Is Geocentrism Necessary to the Faith (Read 22388 times)

cassini · « **Reply #35 on:** September 04, 2016, 02:38:02 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Another one -- a growing number of people today, including some Catholics, are starting to believe in extraterrestrials (UFOs, intelligent life from other planets, solar systems, galaxies), and even time travel.

Really? Name one. I can't.

I've never met a Trad Catholic (and I know a LOT) who believe in aliens. Every Trad I've ever met knows the reality of so-called "aliens" being demons. Honestly, I have never met a Trad who thought there was "life on other planets."

In 1459 came a censure that could be said to be a more accurate example of the heresy of the Antipodes – lands containing intelligent creatures living beyond the reach of the Gospel as held by the Catholic Church, i.e., aliens

‘Forbidden; that God created another world than this one.’

‘In 2009 the Vatican hosted a conference bringing scientists, astronomers and religious leaders together to discuss the implications for religion and human consciousness if the discovery of extraterrestrial life is found. One of the statements made was the fact that extraterrestrials would be part of God’s creation and therefore regarded as our “extraterrestrial brothers.”’ In Sept. 2014, The Christian Post reported that the Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno, the new president of the Vatican Observatory Foundation, proposed the eventual discovery of alien life forms after Pope Francis had suggested that even Martians, should they visit earth, would be welcome to be baptised.'

We see the above historian agreeing that a scientific world-view has now replaced a religious one, with aliens now more credible than angels. Hopefully there are few trad Catholics who are NOT CERTAIN there are no such thing as aliens/antipodes.

Kepler deducted that given the moon was created to shine for man on earth, the four moons of Jupiter had to be put there for ‘aliens’ on that planet.

‘LOOKING FOR ALIENS. By M. Wertheim. ‘Throughout his astronomical career, Father George Coyne, senior scientist at the Vatican Observatory Research Group, whose work has inadvertently dovetailed with our growing desire for extraterrestrial contact, a subject about which he remains optimistically equivocal….
Roger Angel says: “Before, you could only speculate about extraterrestrial life. Now we’re at a point where we can make telescopes with which we can actually go looking for life.”… Looking out at the telescopes arrayed around us, Coyne suggests that we might view stars as God’s sperm. Every sperm has the potential to produce life, he says. Father Coyne is confident that we are not alone. As a priest and a scientist the marvel for him is the universe itself.’ -- Science & Spirit website.

klasG4e · « **Reply #36 on:** September 04, 2016, 03:10:15 PM »

cassini said:

Quote

You need go no further that St Cardinal Robert Bellarmine to find comment on the above teaching in your post:

‘Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the earth, and that the earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’ --- Letter to Foscarini, 1615.

One could ask, why has the Galilean heresy of a fixed sun/ orbiting earth never been taken seriously since 1741. It is because the heresy was seen as a scientific heresy rather than a heresy of contradicting the Scriptures and Fathers. No one saw the question as to whether the sun or earth moves as akin to denying a Virgin birth of Christ. When science said it had proved the earth moves around as fixed sun it did not take much to go along with ex parte objecti and forget ex parte dicentis

With the ex parte dicentis now ignored the real; heresy began to eat into the Catholic faith like DRY ROT in the pews, undermining Scripture resulting in the Modernism.

Wow! Thanks very much cassini. That is a fantastic follow-up, one which I am definitely saving for my "files." I'm sure I will be using it in the future. Hats off to the great St. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine!

OHCA · « **Reply #37 on:** September 04, 2016, 03:10:37 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: mw2016
. . .

Quoting Salza:

Are you talking about John Salza??

If so, you could as likely impress me by quoting Gajewski, Pablo the Wetback, or a host of other lay charlatans masquerading as "theologians" and monopolistic omniscient purveyors of "truth."

Yes, I know. I have problems with Salza in a lot of ways, as discussed on another thread, but he did get it right on geocentrism.

I would be reluctant to quote anyone that I disagreed with on a lot of things--even more so a lay nut. I wouldn't even bother quoting Salza because his viewpoint adds absolutely nothing--I have far more confidence in my own viewpoint on any given questions from "is it raining outside" to the topic at hand than that of that nut. He is an opportunistic blowhard with an unnatural limelight craving.

klasG4e · « **Reply #38 on:** September 04, 2016, 04:12:58 PM »

I don't imagine there are any geocentrists who believe in the Big Bang. It would seem like a clear contradiction in terms would it not? On the other hand, the vast majority of heliocentrists, including Christian ones appear to believe in the Big Bang.

The first verse of Genesis very clearly insists that the Earth came before the Light. However, the Big Bang claims that the Light came before the Earth. How is it that so many Christian heliocentrists who "swear by" the Big Bang don't seem to "swear by" the Bible even many of those who claim to accept Sacred Scripture as being entirely inerrant? Just plain ignorance of the diametrically opposed view of Big Bang to Sacred Scripture or perhaps their notion that somehow Big Bang can be reconciled to Scripture in some hybrid fashion such as we see with the false Theistic Evolution idea?

OHCA · « **Reply #39 on:** September 04, 2016, 05:56:00 PM »

Quote from: klasG4e

I don't imagine there are any geocentrists who believe in the Big Bang.

I don't imagine there are any cow milk drinkers who are goat cheese eaters.

Quote from: klasG4e

It would seem like a clear contradiction in terms would it not?

No--it would not.

Quote from: klasG4e

On the other hand, the vast majority of heliocentrists, including Christian ones appear to believe in the Big Bang.

So what's your point?

You do know that if you insinuate an argument implicitly based on flawed logic that it's just as flawed as if you came out and said what you're getting at instead of beating around the bush, don't you?