Author Topic: Poll: Is Geocentrism Necessary to the Faith (Read 22399 times)

s2srea · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2016, 05:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

I don't know. I lived my whole life a trad and never heard of Geo/Helio until it was brought up on CI a while ago, I'm reasonably sure I know a lot of trads over the years who never heard of it either, many have long since died and we pray for them as members of the faithful departed - and I dare say that I highly doubt any of them were judged on whether or not they believed the earth is flat or not or whether the universe orbits around the sun.

Its cause you got a lot of armchair "experts" who have nothing better to do in life then make themselves feel mighty and powerful. How do you do that?

1. Pick a subject few people can speak on.
2. Cut and paste a bunch of times.
3. Become one of the self-styled "scholars and researchers"
4. Feel good.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2016, 06:00:24 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Stubborn
I don't know. I lived my whole life a trad and never heard of Geo/Helio until it was brought up on CI a while ago, I'm reasonably sure I know a lot of trads over the years who never heard of it either, many have long since died and we pray for them as members of the faithful departed - and I dare say that I highly doubt any of them were judged on whether or not they believed the earth is flat or not or whether the universe orbits around the sun.

Its cause you got a lot of armchair "experts" who have nothing better to do in life then make themselves feel mighty and powerful. How do you do that?

1. Pick a subject few people can speak on.
2. Cut and paste a bunch of times.
3. Become one of the self-styled "scholars and researchers"
4. Feel good.

When? Then?

St Ignatius · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2016, 09:15:54 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

I don't know. I lived my whole life a trad and never heard of Geo/Helio until it was brought up on CI a while ago, I'm reasonably sure I know a lot of trads over the years who never heard of it either, many have long since died and we pray for them as members of the faithful departed - and I dare say that I highly doubt any of them were judged on whether or not they believed the earth is flat or not or whether the universe orbits around the sun.

I'm with you on this one. Not that it wasn't ever discussed, I just don't recall anyone pulling out their catechism or some Church Declaration/Dogma to prove one way or the other. I've been under the presumption that this matter was up for discussion, more or less.

P.S. I thought that the main transgression of Galileo was not what he was teaching necessarily, it was that he put science above the teachings of the Church. Comments welcome on this, please.

mw2016 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2016, 12:17:27 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

That is exactly what I agree with. Did you read the link I posted? Did you read the very next paragraph I wrote? Its a "literalist" interpretation that I am at issue with.

You already said you do not agree with geocentrism.

Therefore, you do not agree with what the Bible says.

You are just looking for a loophole, like a Jew parsing the meaning of literal and literalist.

You have to believe it because He told you so - even if you don't like it.

mw2016 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2016, 12:27:18 AM »

Quote from: cassini

Now geocentrism ex parte dicentis was defined as dogma by Pope Paul V (something defined as formal heresy confirms its opposite as a dogma). His decree of 1616 was irreversible. Pope Urban VIII confirmed that the matter was absolute:

“Invoking, then, the most holy Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that of His most glorious Mother Mary ever Virgin, by this our definitive sentence we say, pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo, on account of these things proved against you by docuмentary evidence, and which have been confessed by you as aforesaid, have rendered yourself to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, that is, of having believed and held a doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures -to wit, that the sun is in the centre of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth moves, and is not the centre of the universe; and that an opinion can be held and defended as probable after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to Holy Scripture."

In 1820 the Holy Office of Pope Pius VII upheld the nonreformable 1616 decree of Pope Paul V, and not one pope in history has ever DARED challenge the 1616 papal decree of Pope Paul V.

Now when one selects "No, geocentrism is not necessary to the faith" that is no different than saying, "I do not believe the Scriptures reveal geocentrism. No, I do not believe the unanimous interpretation of the Fathers. No, I do not accept Pope Paul V's papal decree defining no-geocentrism as a contradiction of Scripture and therefore formal heresy."

Therefore, it is de fide. But, all the people who voted "No, it's not necessary to the faith" are looking for a loophole so they don't have to suffer any human disrespect.