Author Topic: political cults invading churches? (Read 2396 times)

littlerose · « **on:** December 12, 2009, 11:28:06 PM »

what do you think of the atheist groups like NatLFed ("National Labor Federation") that have sometimes invaded traditional churches to take over their charity or missionary activities? "NatLFed" was exposed (to no avail) for cynically taking over a group of Methodist charities some years ago, but when I encountered them I noticed that there were ex-catholics professing atheism in the cult. That was years ago. Lately I have noticed NatLFed jargon turning up in Catholic literature, and I have noticed the same atheistic tone creeping into Catholic charity projects.

Does anyone here want to talk about the NatLFed cult and atheist exploitation of church resources?

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2009, 12:02:03 AM »

Quote from: littlerose

what do you think of the atheist groups like NatLFed...

They'll go to hell unless they repent. What else is there to say?

littlerose · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2009, 07:03:08 PM »

Shouldn't we be concerned about preventing their infiltrations?

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2009, 07:56:14 PM »

What is the typical jargon, Littlerose?

littlerose · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2009, 09:30:06 PM »

"formation" is one key word. New forms of catechesis are being introduced in which, instead of ensuring that young Catholics or new converts simply receive a foundation in the Sacraments and Catholic practice, life and theology, they are to submit their soul-life to a director of "formation" who acts as a kind of combination confessor-psychologist. It is a perversion of the traditional role of priests and other religious in parish life and a subversion of the sovereign place of God in the church, since the "formation" director is another human being but not one who has submitted to the vows of ordination or to obedience as a religious brother or sister.

I returned to the Church after a period in the "wilderness", where I had run across the word "formation" and the same use of it in the NatLFed cult, in which senior members ("cadres") work on the "formation" (brain-washing) of new recruits.

They not only used the same language, they used the same techniques, except in the NatLFed cult, which is a stalinist left-wing group, the context was in gathering volunteers to run food pantries and other poverty-services while recruiting people to the politics while in the Catholic Church the context is ensuring that currently active Catholics do not keep an independent relationship with the teachings of the church but rather rely on whatever new tidbits the formation directors introduce.

In the material I saw, there were pages and pages of apparently innocuous teachings about Catholic practices like the rosary, but each page contained insults to Catholics, very personal viscious insults to our intelligence and our grasp of our own theology, placed in a rythmic fashion that is part of the semi-hypnotic technique used to instill unconscious hatred in a population and then to be able to call upon it as a leader.

A lot of this is written by the notorious convert Scott Hahn who ran a hate-cult as a Protestant before deciding to convert to Catholicism and run his hate-cult as an invader of churches, driving "cradle catholics" out and taking possession of the material estate of the Church. Hahn's followers, including a lot of the Franciscans, seem to be clueless about what he is doing up there in Steubenville.

Hahn is using the same language in religious contexts to bust up parishes that NatLfed used to use in political contexts to bust up independent community groups, taking like a parasite inside a host.

Caraffa · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:40:58 PM »

Quote from: littlerose

A lot of this is written by the notorious convert Scott Hahn who ran a hate-cult as a Protestant before deciding to convert to Catholicism and run his hate-cult as an invader of churches, driving "cradle catholics" out and taking possession of the material estate of the Church. Hahn's followers, including a lot of the Franciscans, seem to be clueless about what he is doing up there in Steubenville.

Hahn is using the same language in religious contexts to bust up parishes that NatLfed used to use in political contexts to bust up independent community groups, taking like a parasite inside a host.

I'm no Scott Hahn cheerleader, but a former hate-cult leader? :confused1: Come on, what evidence do you have of this?

littlerose · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2009, 08:25:34 PM »

littlerose · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2009, 08:54:51 PM »

Lest I be accused of posting private identity with the Weber comment, here is his website: http://carsonweber.org/

littlerose · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2009, 08:58:10 PM »

Oh, and notice the "apostolate" jargon? Wazzat???

Bishops are supposed to be in the lineage of the Apostles. and don't presume to use the title, yet these Hahnists are setting themselves up as APOSTOLATES!

How is that any less offensive/sacrilegious than if I, as a Catholic woman, were to prance around in a cardinal's vestments and demand admittance to the next line of Popes?

Caraffa · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2009, 09:33:55 PM »

Quote from: littlerose

Oh, and notice the "apostolate" jargon? Wazzat???

Bishops are supposed to be in the lineage of the Apostles. and don't presume to use the title, yet these Hahnists are setting themselves up as APOSTOLATES!

How is that any less offensive/sacrilegious than if I, as a Catholic woman, were to prance around in a cardinal's vestments and demand admittance to the next line of Popes?

I don't think that is what they are doing though. As far as a private person having a website to teach or promote the faith and calling it an apostolate does not mean that they are claiming succession from the apostles. The church allows for lay apostolates as long as they are not teaching anything false.

Pope Leo XIII, Sapientiae Christianae: "16. No one, however, must entertain the notion that private individuals are prevented from taking some active part in this duty of teaching, especially those on whom God has bestowed gifts of mind with the strong wish of rendering themselves useful. These, so often as circuмstances demand, may take upon themselves, not, indeed, the office of the pastor, but the task of communicating to others what they have themselves received, becoming, as it were, living echoes of their masters in the faith. Such co-operation on the part of the laity has seemed to the Fathers of the Vatican Council so opportune and fruitful of good that they thought well to invite it. "All faithful Christians, but those chiefly who are in a prominent position, or engaged in teaching, we entreat, by the compassion of Jesus Christ, and enjoin by the authority of the same God and Saviour, that they bring aid to ward off and eliminate these errors from holy Church, and contribute their zealous help in spreading abroad the light of undefiled faith." Let each one, therefore, bear in mind that he both can and should, so far as may be, preach the Catholic faith by the authority of his example, and by open and constant profession of the obligations it imposes. In respect, consequently, to the duties that bind us to God and the Church, it should be borne earnestly in mind that in propagating Christian truth and warding off errors the zeal of the laity should, as far as possible, be brought actively into play."

Caraffa · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2009, 09:43:19 PM »

As far as the piece from Mr. Vasquez goes, he is critiquing the Neo-Catholic pop apologetics and cult of personality that surrounds Mr. Hahn, not that he himself is trying to set up his own cult.

Sure, Hahn certaintly does have some Protestant tendencies, such as supporting the "Catholic Charismatic" movement, having an odd semi-Protestant view of the law, buddying up with N.T. Wright NPP types, ecuмenism, VatII praise, etc. These things cause me to question him and his said conversion, but outside of a Neo-Catholic cult of personality, I don't think that he is a cult leader.

littlerose · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2009, 10:31:59 PM »

In both these questions, the use of the word "apostolate" and the intentions of Hahn, there is room for charity, but also a necessity to see what is actually happening.

I read the material on the Apostolate of the Laity, too, and I saw, as a traditional Catholic, that the word as used there is a deeper level than when it is used as a marketing title. As I said, even in their more explicit relationship to the original Apostles, Catholic Bishops do not throw that word around the way these young commercial Cathevangelists do.

And as far as Hahn's conscious intent regarding establishment of his own cult, (and I personally believe he does know what he is doing) the fact is, he is using cult-like tactics of deception and he is promoting highly offensive private interpretations of such things as the purpose and practice of the Rosary.

That is one of the areas in which converts from the Protestant world are least able to discern heresy, because any veneration of mary is likely to be foreign to their experience.

The Rosary has always been a devotional and meditative practice, in which we immerse ourselves in contemplation of the five forms of mysteries: the Sorrowful, Glorious, etc.

Our lady at Fatima declared that the prayer of the Rosary is directly related to prevention of war. It is a collective supplication for the most basic survival need we humans have, which is to survive on earth without war.

There has never been any connection of the Rosary prayers with personal gain, "Oh Lord Won't You Buy Me A Mercedes Benz"!!!!

Hahn's promotion of the rosary to pagan and protestant laity to use it instead of turning to some other form of fortune-seeking is as offensive as if he offered us a Catholic horoscope! It is occult!!!!

Even Protestants know the difference between fortune-telling "gimme" prayers and actual devotional prayer.

Hahn is pure evil and has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

Even the inclusion in his own conversion story of handing a check to the Pope is Hahn's wink to Satan. How can people not see that he wasw essentially stamping his entire career, his actual so-called "conversion" with the cynical dollar?

Next you'll be telling me the rock star Madonna is a great Catholic evangelist.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2009, 11:05:49 PM »

Hahn and wife make me insane, like the Luminous mysteries

Something like the triumph of mediocrity.

littlerose · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2009, 11:22:01 PM »

His lieutenants do not hide their intention to use the "apostolate" jargon to supersede the old priesthood. They are clearly mounting a full assault on the very fabric of the Church with the couples- apostolates replacing the celibate individuals of the religious orders. Their hostility towards unmarried adults is so strong that I do believe they will revive witch-burning in some new form, because older women who are widowed or cast off for "trophy wives" by aging husbands are not welcome in the church at all. We face open hate-stares and our traditional roles in service are no longer accepted.

The open hatred for women that has always been a problem related to the repressed sɛҳuąƖ drives of priests and nuns (face it, their vows are not easy!) ironically is becoming more extreme in the parishes where Hahnism is strong.

And I have noticed that most of the guru cults and sales cults out there in the world you see couples as sales/leadership teams, as if the men need to prove something all the time.

That is another warning sign. The married life was a private world in the Catholic world that I grew up in. A wife was not a commodity to be shown off like a race horse and put through her paces on the public track. Catholicism includes a great deal more privacy than all this post-modern mercenary stuff.