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Author Topic: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative  (Read 5537 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 04:52:44 PM »
Quote from: roscoe on November 07, 2019, 04:44:22 PM
Pius XII defended Fr Feeney in the Encyclical Humani Generis--

Not very clearly.  He needed to be much more explicit and firm.  Some of Father Feeney's enemies read HG as an endorsement of THEIR views.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 05:47:26 PM »
In the middle of war, in a life or death situation, context is everything.  I’d have to see the docuмent before I would charge the pope with an outright lie or forgery.  That’s a grave charge. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 07:12:26 PM »
Where is the evidence that Pius XII authorized forged baptismal certificates?  The fact that others created them, does not implicate the pope.  The fact that he didn’t call up the nαzιs and say: “Hey guys, there’s some Catholics in your country who are creating fake baptismal certificates.  Just wanted you to know.”  I’m sure he didn’t directly approve of such acts.  The fact that they happened are not his fault (we must assume, unless can be proven otherwise).
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Offline Matto

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 08:08:07 PM »
I have only heard the claim made. I have not read the first-hand docuмents. So perhaps it is not true. But I did not hear the claim first from Mrs. Martinez who uses it to indict him. I first heard it from Pope Pius XII's defenders. Upon accusations of him being "Hitler's Pope" supposedly the Vatican's archives from the World War II period were opened up and his defenders claimed that the Pope did everything possible to save Jews including the forging of docuмents and the hiding of them in monasteries and convents, etc. And this was used to defend the Pope. In those articles it was not suggested that lying and forgery were sins, it was just assumed that anything done to help a Jew was good. So I am not sure to what extent Pope Pius XII was aware of everything done in his name.
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Offline poche

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 10:35:53 PM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 07, 2019, 12:48:00 PM
I think that you do not think at all.

see https://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Today-in-History-Pope-Pius-refused-to-support-a-Jєωιѕн-Jerusalem-442696

"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)
In that same interview he also said, "I have always been on good terms with Jews." This is a direct contradiction to everything that the nαzι movement was was all about.
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