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Author Topic: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative  (Read 5587 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM »
Quote
It is probably one of the worst mortal sins you can commit!  It is making a mockery of true baptism.
In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.   
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Offline Matto

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 04:17:10 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM
In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.  

It was not bending the truth or mental reservation is was telling outright lies and committing fraud. It was doing evil with a possibly good intention, in my mind it seems like it was obviously a sin (though I think calling it one of the worst sins one could commit was an overstatement). Though one could argue that it was mortal (a million lies and acts of fraud).
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 04:19:33 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 07, 2019, 03:50:59 PM
In emergency situations, you are allowed to bend the truth, to save lives or thwart evil.  I doubt it was a mockery; its intent was good.  
Bend the truth? They were fake baptisms, that is a total lie. If fake baptisms are just bending the truth, then there are no lies. 
Fr. Carl Pulvermacher used to say " You can not lie, even to save the world". 
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Offline roscoe

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 04:35:50 PM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 07, 2019, 12:49:25 PM
Thanks for the education. I have read many times Mary Ball Maritnez's book. Facts are facts.
I hope no one is dumb enough to believe Mrs Martinez... While the Pope may have helped some jews to migrate I highly doubt that he would have forged Birth certs. I bet the story is a hoax.. :cheers:
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Offline roscoe

Re: Pius XII and WW2 - Pius the liberal and Roncalli the conservative
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 04:44:22 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 07, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
THIS^^^.  He was undoubtedly one of the worst legitimate popes in history.  He was the watershed that led directly to Vatican II.

1) opened the door to evolution
2) opened the door to NFP as Catholic birth control
3) started the first ecuŠ¼enical meetings
4) enabled Bugnini to begin his liturgical experimentations
5) did not defend Father Feeney against Cardinal Cushing's heresy, and so failed to defend EENS dogma, which led to Vatican II.  He had the opportunity to stand up for and reaffirm EENS in a way that would have precluded Vatican II
6) appointed, during his long reign, the vast majority of bishops who would later bring us Vatican II
Pius XII defended Fr Feeney in the Encyclical Humani Generis-- the rest of the above mostly fantasy as well. Bugnini was a very deceptive man who did not reveal his true nature until after the Popes passing. The only thing i have found undesirable about Pius XII is that he had a little to much faith in Democracy. :chef:
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