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Poll

If Pope Pius XII had put St. Joseph in the Canon, what would you have done?

I would accept the change and attend St. Joseph Masses
19 (61.3%)
I would not accept the change and would attend only dissident non-St. Joseph Masses
1 (3.2%)
I would accept the change and attend either St. Joseph Masses or non-St. Joseph Masses
11 (35.5%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: February 03, 2024, 11:15:00 AM

Author Topic: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass  (Read 62642 times)

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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #220 on: February 12, 2024, 03:40:00 PM »
Perhaps it is better to ask, then, if Pius V had never issued Quo primum, what would the status of the traditional Roman rite be?
We'd have what we have now - because PPVI ignored Quo Primum as if it was never issued and did not exist.


Quote
If the pope has no authority to create a new rite, then Quo primum is irrelevant.
No, PPV never created a new rite - he restored it to it's original. The Law of Quo Primum was established to protect the Mass forever, to forever preserve the Liturgy he restored - just as it says in Quo Primum.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #221 on: February 12, 2024, 04:25:13 PM »

Quote
Perhaps it is better to ask, then, if Pius V had never issued Quo primum, what would the status of the traditional Roman rite be?
The Roman rite would still exist, just as it existed long, long before St Pius V was even born.  It would just be very non-uniform, with all kinds of sub-rites (i.e. in addition to approved rites such as Benedictine, Domincan, etc...you'd have a Redemptorist rite, a Passionist rite, maybe even a New York rite, a Texas rite, etc).  As human nature is wont to do, there would've been endless "customization" as more and more rites were allowed to continue and/or grow.


Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #222 on: February 12, 2024, 05:31:10 PM »
We'd have what we have now - because PPVI ignored Quo Primum as if it was never issued and did not exist.

No, PPV never created a new rite - he restored it to it's original. The Law of Quo Primum was established to protect the Mass forever, to forever preserve the Liturgy he restored - just as it says in Quo Primum.
You misunderstand me. Let me rephrase: If Pius V had not issued Quo primum, would there be any grounds for a priest to refuse the NOM? In other words, is the right to the traditional Mass only based in Quo primum, or does the right exist indepedent of Quo primum?

Furthermore, St. Pius V did not restore the rite to "its original," which is patently false from a historical point of view, nor did he claim to. The Latin says: ad pristinam Missale Sanctorum Patrum normam ac ritum restituerunt. It does not say "the original;" the word is "pristine." Moreover, the Holy Fathers referred to are not what we call the "Church Fathers." Rather, it refers to more recent times. This can be confirmed if you compare the 1570 Missale with the 1474 printing.

Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #223 on: February 12, 2024, 08:03:16 PM »
Dear Cath-Info peeps,

Could anyone please help with posting a picture from any Typical Edition of the Missale Romanum from 1920 to 1956 printed by Benziger Brothers Inc. of the page number 340-2. This is the last page of the "Canon of the Mass". At the top of the page it can be clearly seen in big red letters, "Canon Missae". We need this for establishing where the Canon truly ends, and this will help with understanding what the Canon is. I have photos but can't post them.  Thank you!

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #224 on: February 12, 2024, 08:15:34 PM »
We need this for establishing where the Canon truly ends, and this will help with understanding what the Canon is.

No, we don't need this.  Others have cited authoritative sources about where the Canon ends, nor does it really matter, as it's clear that a Pope has the authority to make changes to the Canon.