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Poll

If Pope Pius XII had put St. Joseph in the Canon, what would you have done?

I would accept the change and attend St. Joseph Masses
19 (61.3%)
I would not accept the change and would attend only dissident non-St. Joseph Masses
1 (3.2%)
I would accept the change and attend either St. Joseph Masses or non-St. Joseph Masses
11 (35.5%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: February 03, 2024, 11:15:00 AM

Author Topic: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass  (Read 85231 times)

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Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #205 on: February 11, 2024, 02:41:09 PM »
Since Our Lord is not directly present on earth (outside the Blessed Sacrament of course), the Pope is his Vicar, i.e. the Pope takes the place of Christ on earth.  So, being in the Church of Christ is being in the Church of the Pope.  How does something like inserting the name of St. Joseph explicitly into the Canon (he's already there implicitly) change "the way we believe"?  It's actually precisely through such small, gradual changes that the Holy Spirit guides the Sacred Liturgy.  Neither the Canon nor the Mass were some monolithic thing that was dropped from Heaven.  While the faith doesn't change, its expression can, and historical circuмstances change, so different things are emphasized at one time that may not be at another (depending on, for instance, what heresies might be out there).  We see this already where the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is different in the West than in the East, and yet it's the same Holy Sacrifice, with different aspects of the Catholic faith emphasized more in one Rite than in another.  Small changes absolutely do not change the "way we believe".
Dear Ladislaus,  

It would be helpful if someone provided what the word, "codify" means as I previously requested.
While the organic changes to all the rites of Sacraments were introduced until their codification by Trent, no changes are permitted afterwards. The Council of Trent has deemed certain things settled.

As for small, gradual changes:  "In substance, the motu proprio granted little of the much that the Constitution had promised. But we must keep in mind the principle of gradualness that had to be followed in the practical implementation of the conciliar docuмent..." (Anibale Bugnini. The Reform of the Liturgy 1948-1975. The Liturgical Press, Collegeville, Minn. 1983. p.58)
The motu proprio to which he was referring was the 1964 docuмent, "Sanctam Liturgiam".

"The principle of gradualness was also the basis of the Concillium's concern to introduce first those changes which were indispensable for a more intense liturgical participation and which at the same time would not prejudice the future reform. It limited itself to those changes that it could be fairly sure would also be adopted in the subsequent reform." (ibid. p.100)
The author of these two quotes was an active participant in the insertion of the name of St. Joseph into the Canon. What principle did he use under Pope Pius XII?  Please keep in mind that the Dialogue Mass had already been introduced.

The expression of the Faith changes? Historical circuмstances change? Yes, and how do they affect the Faith? How is Our Lord going to find Faith when He comes back, if it is expressed according to the Zeitgeist?

As "Quo Primum" of Pope Saint Pius V assures us, there were no new Missals issued in the Eastern Rite as well as in the Latin Church since two hundred years preceding the Bull. I am not sure that there is a different emphasis in the Eastern Rite, and if you have any quotes, I would appreciate you providing them. 

The Eastern Tradition was more resilient to the modernist spirit. Unfortunately, Cardinal Marini worked feverishly on gradual changes; "... a little addition or subtraction in the anaphora prayer here and there does not really alter the Faith".

Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #206 on: February 11, 2024, 03:38:29 PM »
Quo primum did nothing with respect to the Eastern rites or their liturgies.


Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #207 on: February 11, 2024, 03:41:54 PM »
Quo primum did nothing with respect to the Eastern rites or their liturgies.
Dear jdfaber,
That is correct! It did not need to.

Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2024, 01:20:27 AM »

Quote
The Missale Romanum is the book that is used by a priest or a bishop for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is the big leather-bound book, usually red, on the stand on the Altar. It is not the same book as your daily Missal.
 
The Roman Missal is the, well, Roman Missal.  There is an altar edition, which is “complete”, and there are the (usually bilingual) hand missals used by the laity to follow the Mass.  They generally have all the prayers of the Mass, but not necessarily the complete rubrics, though many have explanations of the parts of the Mass.  In my years as a pre VII altar server, and when I attend a 1962 missal Mass now, I have never seen a “leather-bound” altar missal, they were and are always hard bound.
 
Quote
All of them (the Roman Altar Missal) indicate that the Canon ends with the "Deo Gratias" after the Last Gospel.
 
Just exactly how do they indicate this?  I’m pretty sure they don’t.  In any case, the Mass ends with the Ite, Missa est, which is BEFORE the Placeat tibi … prayer, the blessing of the congregation, and the Last Gospel.  How would the Canon of the Mass continue on after the Mass has ended?  EVERY resource that I, and others here, are aware of all indicate that the Canon of the Mass concludes with the Per Ipsum, et cuм Ipso, et in Ipso … at the Minor Elevation.



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Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #209 on: February 12, 2024, 05:13:58 AM »
It would be helpful if someone provided what the word, "codify" means as I previously requested.
While the organic changes to all the rites of Sacraments were introduced until their codification by Trent, no changes are permitted afterwards. The Council of Trent has deemed certain things settled.
Not sure why codify is stumping you but the codices spoken of below are the official, ancient docuмents on the Liturgy that were stored in the Vatican Library.

Codify simply means they arranged the prayers of the Liturgy in a certain order, in doing so they restored the Missal itself to it's original form. This is stated in the opening paragraphs (quoted below) of Quo Primum.

This was his mission, to restore the Missal to it's original form which dates back to the time of Christ and the Apostles. The law of Quo Primum's purpose is to preserve this same original Missal forever.

After all that, there are those among who foolishly insist popes have the authority to legitimately change the Original Missal.....because one pope cannot bind another pope. 


Quote
Quo Primum.....
From the very first, upon Our elevation to the chief Apostleship, We gladly turned our mind and energies and
directed all our thoughts to those matters which concerned the preservation of a pure liturgy, and We strove
with God’s help, by every means in our power, to accomplish this purpose. For, besides other decrees of the
sacred Council of Trent, there were stipulations for Us to revise and re-edit the sacred books: the Catechism,
the Missal and the Breviary. With the Catechism published for the instruction of the faithful, by God’s help,
and the Breviary thoroughly revised for the worthy praise of God, in order that the Missal and Breviary may
be in perfect harmony, as fitting and proper – for its most becoming that there be in the Church only one
appropriate manner of reciting the Psalms and only one rite for the celebration of Mass – We deemed it
necessary to give our immediate attention to what still remained to be done, viz, the re-editing of the Missal
as soon as possible.

Hence, We decided to entrust this work to learned men of our selection. They very carefully collated all their
work with the ancient codices in Our Vatican Library and with reliable, preserved or emended codices from
elsewhere. Besides this, these men consulted the works of ancient and approved authors concerning the same
sacred rites; and thus they have restored the Missal itself to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers. When this work has been gone over numerous times and further emended, after serious study and reflection, We commanded that the finished product be printed and published as soon as possible, so that all might enjoy the fruits of this labor; and thus, priests would know which prayers to use and which rites and ceremonies
they were required to observe from now on in the celebration of Masses.