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Poll

If Pope Pius XII had put St. Joseph in the Canon, what would you have done?

I would accept the change and attend St. Joseph Masses
19 (61.3%)
I would not accept the change and would attend only dissident non-St. Joseph Masses
1 (3.2%)
I would accept the change and attend either St. Joseph Masses or non-St. Joseph Masses
11 (35.5%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: February 03, 2024, 11:15:00 AM

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Author Topic: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass  (Read 62648 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2024, 04:31:02 PM »
Quote from: Texana on January 24, 2024, 04:13:22 PM
Dear DecemRationis,
Please continue.

I'll try to come up with some more relevant quotes.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2024, 04:36:54 PM »

Quote
It follows from this that the Sovereign Pontiff alone enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification.[50] Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship
The above is point 58 of the docuмent.  Below, is point 50, which comes before it.  That's why the above point says "it follows from this...".  Meaning, the pope enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God (not including the Divine elements, which (per point 50), cannot be changed in ANY WAY by men.



Quote
50. The sacred liturgy does, in fact, include divine as well as human elements. The former, instituted as they have been by God, cannot be changed in any way by men. But the human components admit of various modifications, as the needs of the age, circuмstance and the good of souls may require, and as the ecclesiastical hierarchy, under guidance of the Holy Spirit, may have authorized.

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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2024, 04:37:30 PM »
There's a lot of murkiness around the changes to the liturgy in the 60s, or late 50s. I've read the claim (of course, without source provided) that the "for all" was being introduced into the Mass even before the Novus Ordo.

Anyone know of a good study about the changes that were made to the liturgy before the Novus Ordo? I believe there were several official - Vatican approved - changes in the Latin Mass throughout the 60s. And then there was all kinds of nonsense going on with the bishops in various countries, such as my own USA, making changes.

The whole period is a mess, and apparently there's no good record of it. Or is there? Again, anyone know of a good study on this?
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2024, 04:39:45 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 24, 2024, 04:36:54 PM
The above is point 58 of the docuмent.  Below, is point 50, which comes before it.  That's why the above point says "it follows from this...".  Meaning, the pope enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God (not including the Divine elements, which (per point 50), cannot be changed in ANY WAY by men.

:facepalm:

So?

No one here is claiming (and definitely not me) that the sacred liturgy doesn't have divine elements- the form of the consecration, for example.
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Offline Merry

Re: Pius XII and St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2024, 04:41:48 PM »
Just to mention it - When Fr. Feeney heard that St. Joseph was to be added to the Canon, he was immediately alarmed, saying:

"This is wrong.  They should never touch the Canon!"
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