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Author Topic: More Male Saints than Female  (Read 613 times)

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Offline Predestination2

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Re: More Male Saints than Female
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2025, 04:33:42 PM »
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  • Ok. Then why would some one start a thread like this in the first place?

    You all seem to be saying it’s useless (including the OP).
    Stop policing us you are some random woman on the internet who has no moderator powers
    humble yourself 

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #16 on: May 19, 2025, 04:58:42 PM »
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  • Women are more conformist, which means they're more likely to live normal lives which go unnoticed. Most people who go to Heaven are never canonised because canonisation requires heroic virtue (and for this virtue to be known), and heroism is more the realm of men.

    Men's lesser tendency to conform, and men's greater variance in general (men vary more in both physical, intellectual and personality-related attributes), also mean that men are more likely to occupy the extremes of most and least holy, whereas women tend towards the middle of all attributes.

    So, no one knows what the sex ratio of Heaven will be, but I find it unsurprising that more men have been canonised as saints. Any woman who feels hard-done-by by this should consider that more men have been condemned as heresiarchs, or that more men die in war. Men are over-represented in both the extremely good/fortunate and extremely bad/unfortunate statistics.


    Online Gray2023

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #17 on: May 19, 2025, 06:32:45 PM »
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  • Stop policing us you are some random woman on the internet who has no moderator powers
    humble yourself
    Did you read the conversation before I posted my statement of confusion (not policing)?

    It wasn't until the response by 2Vermont (which came right after my confusion statement) that people actually started talking about the OP.  I didn't write anything after that because they were saying things that made sense.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #18 on: May 19, 2025, 06:37:14 PM »
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  • Stop policing us you are some random woman on the internet who has no moderator powers
    humble yourself
    Ditto

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #19 on: May 19, 2025, 06:50:55 PM »
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  • Ditto
    Ugh. I am so frustrated and confused. My intent was not policing. Pax was throwing the heresy word around and I was just trying to help or guess at what the OP meant. I guessed wrong.  It doesn't really matter anymore. 
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #20 on: May 19, 2025, 07:03:40 PM »
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  • Which yet my soul seeketh, and I have not found it. One man among a thousand I have found, a woman among them all I have not found. ~ Ecclesiastes 7:28
    Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so his rider falls backward. ~ Genesis 49:17

    My avatar is a painting titled Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ (1913) by Adolf Hitler

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #21 on: May 19, 2025, 08:24:53 PM »
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  • Ugh. I am so frustrated and confused. My intent was not policing. Pax was throwing the heresy word around and I was just trying to help or guess at what the OP meant. I guessed wrong.  It doesn't really matter anymore.
    Ma'am, I will be honest. You tend to insert your opinion - on most things - which I think is what draws most of the negative reaction (provoked or not). It can SEEM like you try to be a detractor (not saying you are). However I definitely think people like predestination2 are miles worse.

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #22 on: May 19, 2025, 08:28:48 PM »
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  • Caveat:  I got this statistic from Grok:  male 6000 to 7000 saints  female 2400 to 4000 saints

    I'm curious what others think.  Thanks.
    I had always assumed there were more female saints. 


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #23 on: May 19, 2025, 08:34:00 PM »
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  • Historically, women have been seen as possessing and exhibiting greater virtue and piety.  In the modern world, with its radical rejection of traditional gender roles, and enabling of women to cast aside this virtue and piety in the name of emancipation and just "having a good time", this phenomenon has been reversed.  Women have temptations to sin that they didn't have before, and many (most?) of them crater in the face of this.  Men (those who haven't become cucks and simps, that is) are pretty much what they always have been.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 03:21:05 PM »
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  • Because men can be Popes, cardinals, bishops etc. BUT who were the first to see Christ in the Resurrection?  Women  Who brought these men into the world, women, mostly.  It all averages out.

    Offline Geremia

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    More female mystics than male
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 10:59:20 PM »
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  • Royo Marín, O.P., Teología de la Perfección Cristiana
    Quote
    However, it must be added in favor of the weaker sex that these purely somatic disadvantages are counterbalanced in women by a self-sacrifice and generosity in the service of God incomparably superior to those of men. In fact, all authors are forced to admit that women have the better share in the divine distribution of mystical graces. Anyone who denies this fact would be demonstrating ignorance of the history of Christian spirituality.
    Arintero, O.P., Mystical Evolution In the Development and Vitality of the Church (vol. 2), appendix:
    Quote
    2. THE MARVELS OF GOD IN THE WEAKER SEX
    Weiss, Apologie, X, conf. 23:
    Although we should proceed with a certain caution in regard to the marvels of God within ourselves, we cannot approve of those who shorten the arm of God and believe that these things are no longer realized in modern times and that therefore they are to be found only in simple women. . . . What! Women! Are they perhaps weak beings, those women who so energetically restrained their passions, performed heroic mortifications, and served God with all fidelity? (Rivera, Vita S. Theresae, pp. 1, 2, 37). It is certainly not a reproach to them to say that they alone walk along the way of perfection with a manly seriousness. Nor is it any shame to Christianity that it fills with heroic women and virgins the vacancies left by men who have deserted. Should not those men feel ashamed of their weakness, rather than insult such women and depreciate the teaching which God gives to them, showing Himself to be great in little things and making strong that which is weak? (Blessed Raymond, Vita S. Catharinae Senensis, 2, 11, 12). Let no one attribute to himself the gift of God who gives to whom He pleases (Rom. 9:18; Heb. 5:4). And no one has any right to ask Him why He acts thus. God has given to men the priesthood, the mission of preaching, the public apostolate, and so on. Men have enough honors, obligations, and responsibilities. In what way is it prejudicial to men if God gives to women the task of ornamenting His Church and for this purpose bestowing on them certain extraordinary gifts? . . . In times when many men fled from the Church and only a few Nicodemuses came by night to converse with Jesus; when even the servants of the sanctuary were paralyzed with fear and could do nothing but keep silent and follow the dictates of carnal prudence; when the faith was despised and adherence to the Church had become an object of ridicule and when mortification and piety were considered old women's fables; it seems to us that such times were the most fitting for God to come to the aid of His Church by extraordinary gifts. . . . Each year that we approach closer to the end of time we are made to see more clearly that we have great need of saints and miracles. . . . Miracles can be compared to honor, which is the shadow of virtue, for a miracle is the shadow of sanctity. A shadow flees from him who pursues it and it obstinately clings to the steps of him who flees from it. The miraculous pursues the saints as if to recompense them for the solicitude with which they strive to avoid it.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #26 on: Today at 12:07:18 AM »
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  • Simple answer, men are more public than women.

    THIS ^^^

    End of Thread

    Canonization is not simply about holiness (I surmise that there's roughtly a 50-50 split between male and femal saints in truth and in reality, i.e. in the eyes of God, which is all that really counts), but it's about holiness that gets noticed and holiness that God wants to get noticed.

    Also, because men are often engaged in a larger variety of activity, God will sometimes bring notice to these male saints, and even raise up saints, to endorse certain things and bring them to the attention of the faithful.  So, for instance, God raised up St. Thomas to put His stamp of approval on scholastic theology, on "Thomism".  While there were many brilliant scholastics, scholasticism itself was largely started by Abelard, and Abelard did not life a particularly edifying life.  But God wanted to bless Thomism.  For every saintly scholastic like St. Thomas, there were probably a dozen male and a dozen female religious in various contemplative religious communities who lived very holy lives, but they went unnoticed in those settings, and God didn't really see the need to put any kind of special approval onto the contemplative religious life.  God will often raise up male saints to approve of their doctrine, and men alone are Doctors of theology (despite the Modernist creation of female Doctrixes).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: More Male Saints than Female
    « Reply #27 on: Today at 12:23:35 AM »
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  • Any woman who feels hard-done-by by this should consider that more men have been condemned as heresiarchs, or that more men die in war. Men are over-represented in both the extremely good/fortunate and extremely bad/unfortunate statistics.

    Yes, now that you mention women who feel "hard-done", these same types are those agitating for ordaining females, because it's "unfair".

    How or why "unfair"?  There are many men who might have longed to become priests (often for holy reasons) ... and yet they were not born intellectually gifted or their circuмstances (such as poverty, family obligations, lack of education, etc.) did not permit it, how is God being less "unfair" to them than to someone who's born female?

    Apart from the opportunity for personal sanctity, which is all that matters in eternity, the rest is done by God mostly for practical reasons.  We'll probably be very surprised to find untold numbers of saints in heaven who surpass in glory many of those who were raised to the altars, glory in God's eyes, in reality, and in the only way that matters.  And much of their glory will consist precisely in their humility, the very unassuming and hidden lives they led, their accounting themselves as nothing because they accomplished nothing (noteworthy to others) while they lived, and they accepted it with humility.  Note, the opposite of the agitating feminists and others who shake their fists at God to complain about having been wronged by Him.

    Our Lord Himself clearly spoke about how the LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater the Greatest Born of Women (i.e. those who were the greatest in natural virtue, e.g. St. John the Baptist).  What He meant is that you could give away every dime of your possessions, fast for 50 years, etc. ... by your natural powers, and it means nothing compared to a single act of love that takes 30 seconds and which is supernatural due to being moved by God and in fact the result of God acting in them with supernatural merit.

    Compared to God, there's little difference between a glorious Pope and a guy who picks up garbage for a living.  In fact, if the garbage man thinks himself to be of no account, whereas the Pope lets his power get to his head and puff him up with pride ... the social order in Heaven would be reversed, where the garbage man will be "high society" in the glory of heaven, and the Pope lower class, thus Our Lord speaking about the first being last, the last first.

    In this life, God has people play roles for practical reasons.  He wants some to be Popes, some bishops, some priests, and others laborers, peasants, cleaning manure from animal stalls for a living.  None of those roles really mean anything in eternity.  Our Lord rebuked the women who declared Our Lady exalted for having nursed Our Lord.  And, no, Bergoglio, that was not an insult to His Mother, since she also was exalted above all other human beings in terms of keeping God's commandments and loving God ... so Our Lord was just explaining that it isn't what we do, what our roles are in this life, but rather how much we love God in the real Kingdom, the supernatural one, that matters and counts for anything.  I'm sure there are many simple peasants in heaven above many popes (even the ones who weren't just outright damned), and many saints who are greater than many canonized saints even though no one has ever heard of them.  Well, they'll hear about them in eternity.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: More male saints than female
    « Reply #28 on: Today at 12:33:51 AM »
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  • Royo Marín, O.P., Teología de la Perfección CristianaArintero, O.P., Mystical Evolution In the Development and Vitality of the Church (vol. 2), appendix:

    OK, you can stop playing "white knight" now.  Who are these people you cite anyway?  There are not a few male white knights who respond to feminist complaints about not being eligible for ordination by making stuff up.

    First of all, the "mystical graces" are no measure of sanctity, as these are known as gratiae gratis data and have nothing to do with supernatural merit or lack thereof.  God sneds them for various reasons, most often to draw attention to something about the women so that she might be canonized and serve as some kind of example.  Now, St. Therese, undoubtedly one of the greatest saints, God opted NOT to send such extraordinary / mysitical graces to ... PRECISELY to make the point that those really don't matter, that sanctity is open to and availble to everyone, that all you need to do to achieve it isn't to have visions, to levitate, receive locutions, etc. ... but to simply do your duties and whatever else God sends you with love, and to accept sufferings He sends you with resignation (and love).

    Secondly, let's just say that many female "mysical graces" are in fact the products of the female imagination and psyche, i.e. they're not necessarily genuine, but are the creations of their own minds ... so that too could explain the greater prevalence of such phenomena among women.

    Which brings us full ciricle to your white-knighting post here, where in no way does fewer numbers of canonization mean that women are generally less holy ... and CONVERSELY, for the exact same reasons, neither do "mysitical phenomena" mean that men are generally less holy.  So your entire point is moot.

    Online Everlast22

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    Re: More male saints than female
    « Reply #29 on: Today at 10:01:28 AM »
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  • Secondly, let's just say that many female "mysical graces" are in fact the products of the female imagination and psyche, i.e. they're not necessarily genuine, but are the creations of their own minds ... so that too could explain the greater prevalence of such phenomena among women.
    This is huge among N.O. women. At least from the stories I keep hearing... :facepalm: