Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Ladislaus on October 28, 2024, 10:37:42 AM
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So I keep hearing about all the utilitarian reasoning to justify the liceity of voting for Trump.
Given that mindset, a purely pragmatic perspective on voting, if you live in an obvious Blue State that will never go for Trump (e.g. New York, California, others) or in a solid Red State, which will never go to hαɾɾιs ...
then what is the justification for voting Trump?
At that point, voting become merely a symbolic gesture where you're simply declaring your endorsement of and support for Trump.
There's no point in those states to have to "comnpromise" (as Pax characterized it on another thread). Given no justification for compromise, how can you justify casting your vote for and thereby endorsing the Pro-Abortion Genocidal Maniac Donald Trump?
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If one's state is already decided, then a vote for/against Trump is meaningless, both practically and morally.
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Related thread. Sort of. (https://www.cathinfo.com/politics-and-world-leaders/catholic-vote-in-blue-non-swing-states/msg952278/#msg952278)
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If one's state is already decided, then a vote for/against Trump is meaningless, both practically and morally.
Not at all.
When it comes to salvation, the devil uses two tricks, one being presumption and the other being despair... both will destroy you.
Too big to rig, don't take anything for granted and when dealing with hackers and cheaters, the most innocuous of things can become their Achilles Heel.
Even if you think there is no chance do it anyway, they all said Trump could never win in 2016 too, that's exactly why he won it, in 2020 they kicked it up many notches with those mail in ballots etc. They are emboldened, they are losing, they are desperate... now's your chance.
Hackers begin with small or medium things to give them an 'edge' but when they still loose to better enemies they get frustrated and lean more on their cheating... then if the enemy gets even more skilled they only have one way to go, lean more on their cheating which then becomes so extreme and obvious to close that skill gap, that they can be caught out much more easily and nobody can deny it.
In Moldova they were ahead, until at the last minute the 'overseas' aka mail in ballots arrived to steal the victory by a razor thin margin. Given the stakes with the Ukraine and WWIII etc, they are not letting this go easily... go all in, we gotta take down these hackers and cheaters, make them rely fully and lean heavily on their cheats and hacks and thus leave no doubt.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
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If one's state is already decided, then a vote for/against Trump is meaningless, both practically and morally.
To add to this, I think very few states are decided. The only people proclaiming this are the media, pollsters. And they aren't honest.
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To add to this, I think very few states are decided. The only people proclaiming this are the media, pollsters. And they aren't honest.
I tend to agree.
Check out the Madison Square Garden Rally numbers inside and outside. New York could very well surprise us all.
Elon Musk on X: "It was full to the rafters – every seat in the house – and there were over 70,000 people just standing in support in the streets around MSG. The movement is MASSIVE!!" / X (https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1850741967828701267)
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So I keep hearing about all the utilitarian reasoning to justify the liceity of voting for Trump.
Given that mindset, a purely pragmatic perspective on voting, if you live in an obvious Blue State that will never go for Trump (e.g. New York, California, others) or in a solid Red State, which will never go to hαɾɾιs ...
then what is the justification for voting Trump?
At that point, voting become merely a symbolic gesture where you're simply declaring your endorsement of and support for Trump.
There's no point in those states to have to "compromise" (as Pax characterized it on another thread). Given no justification for compromise, how can you justify casting your vote for and thereby endorsing the Pro-Abortion Genocidal Maniac Donald Trump?
Just on a general principle of decency and responsibility. It's kinda like the guys who teach about how to legally defeat the IRS, but then they themselves pay their income tax. No thanks to that kind of hypocrisy. I'll do my due diligence, cast my vote, and stand by it.
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So I keep hearing about all the utilitarian reasoning to justify the liceity of voting for Trump.
Given that mindset, a purely pragmatic perspective on voting, if you live in an obvious Blue State that will never go for Trump (e.g. New York, California, others) or in a solid Red State, which will never go to hαɾɾιs ...
then what is the justification for voting Trump?
Those who have ever voted understand that the ballot provides 30 to 40 opportunities to vote on important issues OTHER than the President. This includes US Congresslmen and Senators, state assemblymen and senators, state attorney generals and multiple other state offices, local mayors and city council members, school board members for local schools and community colleges, state initiatives, local legislation, county sherrifs, county D.A.s, and Judges.
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There’s no hope whatsoever for the state in which I’m registered. It’s already bought and paid for by the dems.
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My state will likely have a large contingent that split their vote for Trump and Amy Klobuchar.
Not a lot of people like Royce White. Nor should you, he's insane.
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If one's state is already decided, then a vote for/against Trump is meaningless, both practically and morally.
Practically, yes, but why would you morally compromise yourself by endorsing Trump if there's no practical need to vote? Everyone here arguing the liceity of Trump is doing so for practical reasons.
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There’s no hope whatsoever for the state in which I’m registered. It’s already bought and paid for by the dems.
Indeed, there are a fair number of such states. Jew York, Commie-fornia, Washington, Oregon, some others on the East Coast. Then there are some states that are just as Red as these are Blue.
So, in SUCH states as these where there's absolutely no chance that the outcome is not certain ... what exactly are you accomlishing besides endorsing someone who's principles are contrary to Catholic ones. If you justify voting for Trump, the Pro Abortionist, Pro Sodomite, Pro Jєωιѕн Genocode candidate for PRACTICAL considerations only, then once that practical motivation is taken aside, what is the justification for it? At that point your vote has no practical effect, but merely serves are your personal endorsement and approval of Trump.
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Indeed, there are a fair number of such states. Jєω York, Commie-fornia, Washington, Oregon, some others on the East Coast.
You named it.
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Like what Vivek Ramaswamy said at Madison Square Garden in NY, a friend asked "why the hell are you guys wasting your time in New York City instead of going to a swing state." and he replied "welcome to 2024 New York is a swing state." You'll be amazed what those who have been 'written off' so to speak can do, Trump is a prime example, mocked and derided as crazy and that he could never win... which is precisely why he did win in 2016.
Alexander Suvorov arguably one of the best Russian Military Generals of all time, was originally rejected, a sickly child and whose father insisted was unfit for military affairs. Kutuzov who beat Napoleon, was mocked and rejected, even falsely blaming him for their loss at Austerlitz.
In WWII Air Vice-Marshal James Edgar Johnson was initially rejected by the RAF on social and medical grounds, but was eventually accepted in August 1939 and became the Top British Ace of the War, credited with 27 enemy aircraft destroyed.
It is the same all throughout salvation history, for the weakness of God is stronger than human strength and the folly of God is wiser than human reason, that's why truth itself is on a Cross in total defeat and humiliation and then the script is completely flipped to the point where crucifixion for the Romans which they had perfected no longer worked.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advcocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
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OK, you can pretend that New York is still somehow in play, but assume a hypothetical then, so as not to keep doding the quesition. If you're in a state where it's a certainty that your vote will not change the outcome, can you still vote for Trump, and why would you do so?
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OK, you can pretend that New York is still somehow in play, but assume a hypothetical then, so as not to keep doding the quesition. If you're in a state where it's a certainty that your vote will not change the outcome, can you still vote for Trump, and why would you do so?
Because as I said, the devil gets you two ways, presumption and despair, both can destroy you.
Just like the seeds that Christ scatters on the ground, some have short roots, others have deep roots and there is no way of knowing who will pick up on it and how far that will go or not and it's always the least expected that nobody thought.
Take St Joan of Arc for example, first of all, a woman should not be going into battle and that is especially crazy for that time, there is also the whole cross dressing accusation because they didn't even have any armour for her (misconstrued as cross dressing is wrong but it was a very different reason her, not a desire but a lack of options) and furthermore, they would never have taken such a chance if they were not so desperate to begin with and she didn't do any of the killing either... and yet she changed everything and did the impossible, they then got cold feet and abandoned her in the end too, whether it was overzealousness on her part or abandonment on the King's part that caused her downfall is hard to say, maybe a bit of both, in her version she had clues as to how it would end anyway, but she won against all odds and was resurrected so to speak, just as the Martyrs of Compiegne and many others.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
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Because as I said, the devil gets you two ways, presumption and despair, both can destroy you.
Just like the seeds that Christ scatters on the ground, some have short roots, others have deep roots and there is no way of knowing who will pick up on it and how far that will go or not and it's always the least expected that nobody thought.
Take St Joan of Arc for example, first of all, a woman should not be going into battle and that is especially crazy for that time, there is also the whole cross dressing accusation because they didn't even have any armour for her and furthermore, they would never have taken such a chance if they were not so desperate to begin with and she didn't do any of the killing either... and yet she changed everything and did the impossible, they then got cold feet and abandoned her in the end too, whether it was overzealousness on her part or abandonment on the King's part that caused her downfall is hard to say, maybe a bit of both, in her version she had clues as to how it would end anyway, but she was won and was resurrected so to speak, just as the Martyrs of Compiegne and many others.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
So your voting for abortion in this upcoming election?
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So your voting for abortion in this upcoming election?
I can't, but if I could I would do so in a heartbeat, not for abortion but against abortion and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7E4xKUe6I
And of course, at the time in 2016 on CAF many people swore that Trump was playing us and that he would never overturn Roe v Wade etc, and of course, they were totally wrong, Trump did overturn Roe v Wade despite huge pressure and pushback and reinstated the Mexico City Policy etc, furthermore, if you get cold feet now and don't vote, then you allow a hαɾɾιs to reinstate Roe v Wade and undo all that has been achieved among so much more.
Furthermore, if Clinton had won in 2016... I can't even think about that for it would have been a nightmare and what is happening now would have been over before it even begun. Success and opportunities are built on previous successes and opportunities, so instead of blindly condemning especially in light of the alternative, why would one not try to build on previous success instead? Nobody goes to bed a sinner and wakes up a saint, that is true on the individual level and on the societal level and if you hold such false expectations you will always be disappointed, upset and frustrated and you will always be losing and condemning.
Converting people from the remnant to the remnant of the remnant constantly losing more and more ground... when do such people reflect on themselves? Is it always everybody else's fault?
The Vendee is a classic example, doomed from the beginning and even if they got what they wanted, King Louis XIV rejected the Sacred Heart and King Louis XVI tried to flee the Country before even looking at the Sacred Heart only doing so in a jail cell which was way too little too late and that's what you will fight and die to try and restore? They acted on what they wanted to be the case and not on the reality. The Sacred Heart as a military standard was not given to the Vendee it was given to King Louis XIV who rejected it and the Martyrs of Compiegne were the only ones who ended the reign of terror and resulted in the execution of Robespierre himself which is something the Vendee could not achieve despite their best efforts.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
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Because as I said, the devil gets you two ways, presumption and despair, both can destroy you.
Whatever this means has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
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Whatever this means has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
You are 'presuming' which states are swing and which are not, you are 'despairing' when you consider states a lost cause.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
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Doing the calculations of political outcomes is math, not sin.
What's next? A sermon on ecological "sins" against "Gaia"?
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I can't, but if I could I would do so in a heartbeat, not for abortion but against abortion and more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7E4xKUe6I
And of course, at the time in 2016 on CAF many people swore that Trump was playing us and that he would never overturn Roe v Wade etc, and of course, they were totally wrong, Trump did overturn Roe v Wade despite huge pressure and pushback and reinstated the Mexico City Policy etc, furthermore, if you get cold feet now and don't vote, then you allow a hαɾɾιs to reinstate Roe v Wade and undo all that has been achieved among so much more.
Furthermore, if Clinton had won in 2016... I can't even think about that for it would have been a nightmare and what is happening now would have been over before it even begun. Success and opportunities are built on previous successes and opportunities, so instead of blindly condemning especially in light of the alternative, why would one not try to build on previous success instead? Nobody goes to bed a sinner and wakes up a saint, that is true on the individual level and on the societal level and if you hold such false expectations you will always be disappointed, upset and frustrated and you will always be losing and condemning.
Converting people from the remnant to the remnant of the remnant constantly losing more and more ground... when do such people reflect on themselves? Is it always everybody else's fault?
The Vendee is a classic example, doomed from the beginning and even if they got what they wanted, King Louis XIV rejected the Sacred Heart and King Louis XVI tried to flee the Country before even looking at the Sacred Heart only doing so in a jail cell which was way too little too late and that's what you will fight and die to try and restore? They acted on what they wanted to be the case and not on the reality. The Sacred Heart as a military standard was not given to the Vendee it was given to King Louis XIV who rejected it and the Martyrs of Compiegne were the only ones who ended the reign of terror and resulted in the execution of Robespierre himself which is something the Vendee could not achieve despite their best efforts.
"Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."
God Bless
Why would/should any Catholic care to hear what any heretic has to say on Christianity let alone the heretic Dinesh Souza. Why do you keep posting heretic and secular pro-abortionists as your sources to endorse sin?
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Practically, yes, but why would you morally compromise yourself by endorsing Trump if there's no practical need to vote?
There IS a practical need to vote. Those who have ever voted understand that the ballot provides 30 to 40 opportunities to vote on important issues OTHER than the President. This includes US Congresslmen and Senators, state assemblymen and senators, state attorney generals and multiple other state offices, local mayors and city council members, school board members for local schools and community colleges, state initiatives, local legislation, county sherrifs, county D.A.s, and Judges.
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There IS a practical need to vote. Those who have ever voted understand that the ballot provides 30 to 40 opportunities to vote on important issues OTHER than the President.
OK, but surely you must have understood that I was referring to voting for President, and not the other races. I've already said that I'm going to vote for a number of those other issues ... just in case they're not all rigged at a lower level.