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Offline Dawn

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News from Bishop Williamson
« on: October 28, 2006, 02:41:49 PM »
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  • Offline Dawn

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 02:49:13 PM »
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  • Just wanted to see what you think. Especially you Chant. I like this man. I posted it on FE as well. Correct me ifI am wrong, but Archbishop Lefebvre started the SSPX to keep the true faith, defend the Chruch,and the Papacy. Well, then if Bp.Williamson does not intend to dine with Rome and let by gones be by gones, should not everyone in the SSPX be happy? The errors of Modern Rome are still there. Why should he cave or even look like everything is o.k. Rome should be sorry for leading so many souls  into error and possibly even damnation. To accept Benedicts "welcome" would seem to me that all of the reasons the good Archbishop had for taking the stand that he rightfully took to hold the true teachings of the Church safely out of the murky waters of V-II do not matter any more. No, I have been waiting for just this sort of messagefrom Bp.Williamson.

    Hope this makes sense.


    Offline PinoyMonk

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 09:22:18 PM »
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  • Hm, of course this is a very complicated issue, which does not have one simple answer or conclusion.  On the one hand, it would be great to end this "unusual canonical status" (as some describe it).  On the other hand though, what is the cost to this "reunion?"

    As to the comments above by Bishop Williamson ("some of us might have difficulty following."), they make the SSPX sound quite divided, which is exactly what many of my indultarian friends hold against me.  It only continues to promote the notion that the SSPX is truly schismatic and is "against" Rome.

    In the end though, I agree what I will personally find it difficult "to [follow]" if the cost of reunification is too high.  Though, from what I've heard myself from the mouth of Bishop Fellay (when he visited my chapel this past Spring), he doesn't seem so eager "to negotiate" as many anti-SSPXers portray.  I know that he doesn't seem to be blunt as Williamson, but that doesn't mean that he's a softy, desiring to return to complete Roman control this second against the wishes of the militant majority in the SSPX.  This is utter foolishness and mere rumours, spreaded by many indultarians, who I personally know.

    What a sad day we find ourselves in, friends.  As a final note, I'll post the words of St. Athanasius (which I'm sure you are all quite familiar with):

    "The more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."


    Au revoir,

    Pinoy Monk
    "In this difficult time, to be victorious, we must be steadfast using all of our strength and capabilities like brave soldiers fully armed in the battlefield ... Whatever happens, behave in such a way that God will be glorified."

    -Saint Andrew Kim

    "

    Offline MaterDominici

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 09:53:22 PM »
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  • I think Pinoy is correct in that many "news" stories use what is mostly personality differences between Bishop Fellay and Bishop Williamson to try and paint the picture of disagreement among the leaders of the SSPX. Fellay himself, after the General Chapter, said, "We could easily see that for all the major issues--the root questions--there was a profound unity in the Society, whether it be about Rome, the care for our priests, the concern for their sanctification, or for the apostolate in general." Just because Williamson is more outspoken doesn't mean that he's in disagreement with the heads of the SSPX. I would only believe that if I heard it from Fellay or his assistants.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Matthew

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #4 on: October 29, 2006, 04:25:11 AM »
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  • Yes, the media loves to create the impression that the SSPX is divided, just like the protestant groups were (and are) divided -- because they want to cast the SSPX in the absolutely worst light possible. Everyone with a brain knows that "error is many, and truth is one" -- so if they put two and two together, they are led to believe that the SSPX is a wrong path, since it is so "incoherent and divided".

    Fortunately I got an "inside" perspective, having met a huge number of English-speaking SSPX priests, and all 4 bishops (not to mention dozens of seminarians).

    There are certainly differences of temperament between Bishops Fellay and Williamson. Just like St. Ignatius (an ex-soldier) was probably far more feisty than St. Francis of Assisi. That doesn't mean that either was more Catholic. Either one would have suffered martyrdom had the chance arose.

    You'll notice that every time Bishop Fellay speaks, he emphasizes that he's NOT itching for an agreement at any costs, that he's willing to continue the Fight for as long as God wills, etc. I don't see much of a difference in the bishops' outlook on the Crisis. Of course, this or that bishop might be more diplomatic, or more outspoken. But that is due to personality, not personal conviction or belief.

    When Rome wakes up to the evils of Modernism, and realizes that the Modern World is built on Freemasonic ideals of "liberty, equality, fraternity", and that there is NO compromise with such a Demondom (as opposed to Christendom), then the "problems" with the SSPX will dissolve into thin air.

    I agree that there isn't too much reason to cheer just yet. Rome still seems to be caught in the subtle wiles of Modernism's snares. Our current Pope was raised on modernist German theologians and philosophers.

    We probably shouldn't get TOO excited about this whole "universal indult" thing -- I'm sure many people will go ape-wild when it happens, but it won't change much for a LOT of Catholics. We need to remember (and keep studying) the nature of the Crisis we are in, and that it will likely continue for some time. Things will probably get worse -- MORE confusing -- before they get better, if you can believe that.

    To give an example, what if the Pope allowed the Traditional Mass for all, and even REQUIRED every locale to have at least one TLM per week? Would that be good? Well, it depends on WHY he is doing it. Perhaps he is only doing it because he believes that, as Truth changes from age to age, it's possible for truth to see-saw a bit. (Purgatory exists, then purgatory doesn't exist, then LOOK AT THAT! -- Purgatory exists again!) or "The Holy Ghost wants Mass in Latin", "The Holy Ghost wants vernacular Masses", then "The Holy Ghost wants Mass in Latin again".


    We can be happy that more grace will flow because of the TLM, but I don't think we can all lay down our arms just yet. After all, if the whole thing is founded on Modernist ideas, then next year the Pope (or perhaps his successor?) will flip-flop back to the Novus Ordo Mass. Ideas ARE important. Ideas are more important than actions -- they lead to actions.

    (Just like if I were a dictator, I'd rather have my subjects watching TV -- where I can powerfully influence their thinking -- than to have them all in chains.)


    If Truth can change, then it can change to ANYTHING, right? Even things that have been true at one time in the past.

    You'd have a Pope saying "The TLM is good", but for the WRONG reason. You'd have the massive mind rot of Modernism in most cardinals and the Pope, but on the surface things would be almost "normal". What would we do then?

    We're almost blessed now because things are bad on the SURFACE as well as underneath. What if the devil brings out his BIG GUNS (of confusion) and makes things even more confusing for good Catholics? We all better know how to think, and the more we know about our Faith the better.

    I think we'd still have to fight modernism, even if Modernism gets more and more subtle (and hard to discern). Modernism is easy to spot when you have Biker Masses. It's less easy to understand when Modernists say the TLM.

    I think that's what Bishop Williamson is trying to remind us.

    In Christ,

    Matthew
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    Offline CampeadorShin

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #5 on: October 29, 2006, 12:46:56 PM »
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  • Yeah, it ticks me off when they acuse "ultra traditionalists" of being anti Semites just to make us pariahs.
    Catholic warriors:
    http://www.angelusonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
    My older avatar of Guy Fawkes that caused so much arguing, made by peters_student:
    http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/6007

    Offline Dawn

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    News from Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 02:35:02 PM »
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  • Yes, I would have to say that I think it is another case of persons outside of the SSPX trying to cause trouble. These bishops are all very strong minded individuals I would guess, never having met them, to be in day to day front line battle with the wolves trying to tear down the True Faith.
    I liken them to modern day knights fighting the infidels. How sad that the infidels don't wear turbans but miters.
    Campy true enough that the same gutteral way that people spit the word Aushwitz, they spit the word Traditionalists. I read though that Archbishop Lefebvre's father died in a camp for his work against the Nazi's. Course, it would never do for the truth to come out about Lefebvre. Not anymore than they truth about Maximillian Kolbe. He loved the Blessed mother and fought against Nazi's, Commies and Masons. And, to top all of that he offered his life for a Jewish man. No, they never will admit that the trads are the ones who have the best of thoughts for all of those outside the faith, especially Jews. To pray they become Catholic.

     

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