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Author Topic: New Malachi Martin Book  (Read 201646 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: New Malachi Martin Book
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2025, 12:36:03 PM »
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  • I posted this on X in respose to Lifesite's post about the book and interview with Marro:
    Quote
    So ... I've got serious problems with his credibility here, either that or of Fr. Martin.  If you see this interview (linked below) with Fr.(?) Coomaraswamy on Art Bell's show, he relates that Fr. Martin told him a completely different story about how he had allegedly read the Third Secret.  According to Coomaraswamy, Fr. Martin told him that he had been riding in a car with John XXIII, when the latter directly gave him the Third Secret, after having sworn him to silence about it.  Now, according to Marro, Fr. Martin said it was Cardinal Bea who gave him the Secret, after having left a meeting behind closed doors during which heating argument could be overheard.  So, which one was it?  Both really can't be true, since if Fr. Martin had already read the Third Secret from John XXIII, he could have just said to Cardinal Bea, "oh, I've alredy seen this, from John XXIII".

    We have only a few options here.  Either Fr(?) Coomaraswamy was lying, or Marro is lying, or Fr. Martin was lying, and unable to keep his lies straight.  I don't think Coomaraswamy would lie, as he has always been regarded as a man of high character, even if I don't agree with all his positions.  So in my mind either Marro is making all this up to sell a book, or Fr. Martin was lying.  Now, if this was some story from Fr. Martin, why had he not told this to other people with whom he was close?  Fr. Martin was known to have had a very close relationship with Coomaraswamy, but this is the first time I had heard of Marro, and how is it that he's evidently the ONLY one to whom Fr. Martin would have told this story?  And some of Marro's story seems nonsensical.  Between that and this never having come out over all these many years ... I am highly suspect that this book is largely fictional (like many of Fr. Martin's books) and just a ploy to make money ... and it appears to be working.

    How come that nobody in the Traditional movement has ever heard of this Marro character before, or that Fr. Martin had never told some of these stories to anyone else with whom he had been in close association, and that it's just coming out now, many decades later?

    It's hard for me to conclude anything other than that Marro made it all up, or made most of it up, in order to make money by seeling his book ... and it appears to be working.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #31 on: December 05, 2025, 01:08:58 PM »
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  • I think I'd be initially torn, wondering whether Our Lady would want someone like me publishing it, and then of course there would be the consideration of would anyone believe me anyway?  I could make something up right now, fabricate some story, and claim I have it ... or if I didn't, then there would be a question of what I saw was in fact the real thing or some forgery, etc.  I'm not sure I would believe anyone.  Even if I knew him to be of the greatest integrity, there would be a question regarding the veracity of his source.  If Fr. Martin had revealed it, given his track record for lots of people questioning his credibility ... what percentage of people would believe his version anyway?  I think you would have to have solid evidence regarding a "chain of custody" to have the necessary credibility.
    .

    All of this is true, but if someone had access to the secret and decided to publish it then people could make their own decision as to whether they believe it or not. If I somehow got access to a docuмent that I was convinced was the real 3rd secret, I would publish it and explain why I believed it was authentic. In Malachi Martin's case, he could say "I was secretary to a cardinal who had access to the docuмent and he showed it to me, and here's what it said." And since people seem to believe most of what comes out of that man's mouth to begin with, a lot of people would probably believe it. But if someone chooses not to reveal what they know, then nobody has an opportunity to learn what it says and decide either way, and then nobody will see what Our Lady wanted them to know anyway.

    Even if one of the true popes had revealed its contents, a lot of people would still have been skeptical anyway, and Our Lady certainly accounted for that, but she still wanted it revealed.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #32 on: December 05, 2025, 02:41:06 PM »
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  •  I can't imagine how someone could know what the third secret says and not publish it.
    He was sworn to secrecy, which you would know had you ever listened to him yourself, instead of relying on third-hand misinformation from online posts.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #33 on: December 06, 2025, 09:45:07 AM »
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  • Either Fr(?) Coomaraswamy was lying (I'd say not, as he would have better character than to do this ... 
    Do you think he was being honest about Martin being a bishop and conditionally ordaining him? Or do you think Martin may have deceived him?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #34 on: December 06, 2025, 12:11:24 PM »
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  • Do you think he was being honest about Martin being a bishop and conditionally ordaining him? Or do you think Martin may have deceived him?

    I believe that he's telling us what he believes to have been true, based on what Fr. Martin told him.  Unfortunately, with Father Martin, since he's made a veritable career out of mixing fact with fiction, it's hard to know what's true and what isn't.

    I find myself most skeptical of this Marro character.  So, just now, over 25 years after Fr. Martin's death, we're finally hearing about his having been made a Cardinal?  Sounds really fishy.  Has anyone heard of this guy before as having been connected with Fr. Martin?

    Fr. Coomaraswamy was known to have been very close with him, and yet Fr. Martin didn't tell HIM about the whole Cardinal thing?  Then Fr. Coomaraswamy told the story he heard from Martin about how the latter had read the Third Secret, directly from John XXIII ... vs. Marro's story about how Cardinal Bea had given it to him.  Which one was it?

    Least likely ... Fr(?) Coomaraswamy lied about J23 Third Secret Strory.
    Most likely ... Marro is making it all up 25 years after his death to make some money off the book.
    In Between ... Fr. Martin was lying about having read the Third Secret and lost track of the lies, telling two contradictory stories.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #35 on: December 07, 2025, 04:32:01 PM »
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  • Do you have any evidence to substantiate that second charge?  Otherwise, it would constitute calumny. 
    That's pretty funny coming from Lad.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #36 on: December 07, 2025, 04:38:15 PM »
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  • with Father Martin, since he's made a veritable career out of mixing fact with fiction, it's hard to know what's true and what isn't.
    Oh please. "Veritable career"? Malachi Martin wrote one book which, for health reasons no doubt, he choose to label as fiction as high Vatican hierarchy were called out. It is well-known that Malachi Martin had circulated a paper with a list of the real enemy hierarchy along with their fictionalized names. 

    That is not a "veritalbe career out of mixing fact with fiction." 

    Please stop engaging in calumny and if you just can't help yourself, at least tone down accusing others of what you are doing.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #37 on: December 07, 2025, 09:06:52 PM »
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  • I posted this on X in respose to Lifesite's post about the book and interview with Marro:
    How come that nobody in the Traditional movement has ever heard of this Marro character before, or that Fr. Martin had never told some of these stories to anyone else with whom he had been in close association, and that it's just coming out now, many decades later?

    It's hard for me to conclude anything other than that Marro made it all up, or made most of it up, in order to make money by seeling his book ... and it appears to be working.
    .

    Yes, the whole thing is obviously just a big dog-and-pony show, for the reasons you explained. So many trads are so gullible that I would almost sell them magic beans that will grow a beanstock in their backyard high enough to reach a giant's castle in the clouds, but I'm an honest person, so I won't. :laugh1:


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #38 on: December 07, 2025, 09:08:38 PM »
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  • He was sworn to secrecy, which you would know had you ever listened to him yourself, instead of relying on third-hand misinformation from online posts.
    .

    A promise of secrecy is not binding if it will be the cause of grave spiritual and possibly physical harm to millions and millions of people. This is common sense.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #39 on: December 07, 2025, 11:54:19 PM »
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  • There's so much strange things about Fr. Malachi Martin that even if he was alive, giving interviews and writing books himself, I would believe none of it without solid evidence.

    I can understand conservatives giving him attention, but not Traditionalists, who should know better.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #40 on: December 08, 2025, 01:16:45 PM »
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  • There's so much strange things about Fr. Malachi Martin that even if he was alive, giving interviews and writing books himself, I would believe none of it without solid evidence.

    I can understand conservatives giving him attention, but not Traditionalists, who should know better.
    Please explain "strange things" keeping in mind that the tactics of the enemy include creating falsehoods about a person, attacking their character and muddying the water so people throw their hands in the air and give up on learning the truth. This is only done to those who are in their way.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #41 on: December 08, 2025, 02:30:36 PM »
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  • Please explain "strange things" keeping in mind that the tactics of the enemy include creating falsehoods about a person, attacking their character and muddying the water so people throw their hands in the air and give up on learning the truth. This is only done to those who are in their way.

    I have even read an article that showed that he received money from some Jєωιѕн organizations. It was on this board, if I am not mistaken.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #42 on: December 12, 2025, 04:07:29 PM »
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  • Laramie Hirsch found something interesting:

    https://theweltgeist.substack.com/p/fr-malachi-martin-i-want-to-believe

    But it is even worse than what Laramie found.

    Rob Marro says  [Malachi Martin: In the Shadows of the Vatican, pgs 40-41]:


    "...[Martin] was consecrated five months earlier as a secret bishop of the Roman Catholic Church by Bishop Domenico Tardini, the Vatican Pro-Secretary of State for Extraordinary Ecclesiastical Affairs, with the express approval of Pope Pius XII. After the brief ceremony in Rome’s Church of the Twelve Holy Apostles, or Santi apostoli as the Italian locals called it, Bishop Tardini, and two weeks later, Pope Pius XII himself, gave the newly consecrated episcopus in pectore, or secret bishop, a direct, almost perfunctory briefing of the situation that awaited the New Bishop Malachi Martin, SJ.

    But here is the information on Tardini on Catholic-hierarchy.org:

    https://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/btardini.html

    Note that Tardini was not even consecrated a bishop until 14 December 1958. And look who Tardini's principal Consecrator was: Pope John XXIII.

    So, Tardini's own consecration took place after the death of Pope Pius XII in October 1958. Therefore, a dead Pope Pius XII could not have given Martin a "perfunctory briefing of the situation that awaited the New Bishop Malachi Martin, SJ."

    Clearly the events described do not correspond to the facts. How did the publisher's fact-checkers missed this?

    This guy Marro is ex-CIA. He admits that. I wouldn't believe anything he says without independent confirmation.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #43 on: December 12, 2025, 10:55:13 PM »
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  • Oh please. "Veritable career"? Malachi Martin wrote one book which, for health reasons no doubt, he choose to label as fiction as high Vatican hierarchy were called out. It is well-known that Malachi Martin had circulated a paper with a list of the real enemy hierarchy along with their fictionalized names.

    That is not a "veritalbe career out of mixing fact with fiction."

    Please stop engaging in calumny and if you just can't help yourself, at least tone down accusing others of what you are doing.

    You are borderline delusional when you have become emotionally attached to someone or something, like you did and continue to be with Trump.

    Martin himself characterized the style of his own novels as "faction", which by definition is mixing fact with fiction ...
    Quote
    We are talking about real events and real people masked in the form of a novel; nowadays it is called faction …

    As for a "veritable career", that's absolutely true as Martin made most of his money and got most of his notoriety from writing his faction novels, and there were close to a dozen of them, not just ONE.  You're the one who's a liar and there's nothing of calumny in anything I said.

    Every single one of the following was written in that faction style, where you had fake names, but the various individuals bore striking resemblances at times to some real historical figures.  When you see the disclaimers nowadays in movies that "any resemblance to real people was not intentional" ... well, Martin's resemblances were absolutely intentional.

    Windswept House
    Hostage to the Devil
    The Jesuits
    The Keys of this Blood
    The Final Conclave
    The Vatican

    But the problem there is that because there's a blend, that gives him plausible deniability, but at the same time it makes anything he wrote to be entirely useless ... since you can never know if ANY GIVEN POINT is fact or fiction.  Martin almost NEVER spoke plainly, but he always spun around in generalities, rarely giving direct answers to questions ... and regularly contradicting himself.

    In any case, however ... this latest book by Marro shows all the signs of just being sheer fabrication on his part.  We've pointed out a couple places already where he claims Fr. Martin told him something completely different than what Fr(?) Coomaraswamy told him about some things.  But Fr(?) Coomaraswamy appeared to be a man of good character who was not known for lying, and that, combined with the question of ... why are all these dramatic revelations coming out ONLY 26 years or so after Fr. Martin's death?  Really?  So of all the people who were known to actually have been close to Fr. Martin, such as Fr(?) Coomaraswamy, he only told all this stuff to Marro, whom almost nobody's actually heard of?  And then he sat on all that information for 26 years?  I think that an investigation of his personal financial situation might be in order, to see if something happened where he suddenly became desperate for a financial windfall.

    Other posters above have found other egregious factual errors committed by Marro, who I guess was too lazy to do even a small amount of research so that he wouldn't discredit the entire book.



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: New Malachi Martin Book
    « Reply #44 on: December 12, 2025, 10:58:49 PM »
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  • While I want to think well of Father Martin, unfortunately, the final verdict is that we simply cannot trust anything he ever said, so at the end of the day, he's made almost no net positive contribution for the benefit of the Church.  I pray for the repose of his soul, and in some ways he seemed like a decent man (to the extent that we can know), but there's much about his that makes it impossible not to suspect him.  He admitted himself that he got a rush out of blackmailing Cardinals and bishop on behalf of his employer, Cardinal Bea, highly suspect of having been a Mason and a crypto-Jew, and of course Fr. Martin specialized in Semitic languages, showing yet another sign of affinity with Jews.  That alone makes it simply impossible to trust him, since no "good guy" or "white hat" would ever engage in such incredibly immoral behavior.  I knew someone in the early 1990s who at one point followed Fr. Martin around on some of his lecture tours, and he told me that he saw Fr. Martin change his presentations to suit whatever audience he was going to speak to, in an obvious and transparent attempt to ingratiate himself with whatever their viewpoint was, so that you'd get a different tone depending on whether he was speaking to R&R / SSPX types, Conciliar Indult types, SVs, or Feeneyites.  Even if he had been 99% truthful ... that 1% suffices to render everything else useless, per that legal principle of falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus where if a witness has been found to be untruthful / lying about even a single point, then you can't use any of what he said as evidence, since at that point you just can never know when he's telling the truth and when he's lying, and I'm afraid that's what was the ultimate final verdict on the career of Malachi Martin.