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Author Topic: nαzι Ideology  (Read 16439 times)

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Offline LeDeg

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Re: nαzι Ideology
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2018, 01:17:50 PM »
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  • If you think that Pope Pius XI backed Hitler and his policies then I would suggest that you take another look at Mit Brennender Sorge.
    He conscientiously helped him get elected in 1933. It was Vatican policy, hence the concordant. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle


    Offline poche

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #76 on: June 21, 2018, 02:13:21 AM »
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  • It should be avoided like the New Mass.
    Pope Pius XI never imagined that there would be a New Mass.


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #77 on: June 21, 2018, 02:24:35 PM »
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  • Pope Pius XI never imagined that there would be a New Mass.
    What does that have to do with anything?
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline poche

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #78 on: June 21, 2018, 11:57:30 PM »
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  • He conscientiously helped him get elected in 1933. It was Vatican policy, hence the concordant.
    Hitler  was supported by the Protestant people of Germany not the Catholics.

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #79 on: June 22, 2018, 07:56:18 AM »
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  • Hitler  was supported by the Protestant people of Germany not the Catholics.
    Wrong, he was held in high esteem by the many of the Catholic citizens,many of whom died in their basements, incinerated,hiding in their basements with melted Rosaries in their hands through the deliberate allied bombing of innocent civilians. Catholics were primary targets in the Jєωιѕн Holy war against Christian Europe. Can you guess who won?


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #80 on: June 22, 2018, 08:19:19 AM »
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  • Wait, World War 2 was a Jєωιѕн Holy War against Christian Europe? Never heard that before.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Hermenegild

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #81 on: June 22, 2018, 08:42:25 AM »
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  • Wait, World War 2 was a Jєωιѕн Holy War against Christian Europe? Never heard that before.
    On March 24, 1933, The Daily Express (London) published an article announcing that the Jєωs had already launched their boycott against Germany and threatened a forthcoming "holy war".

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #82 on: June 22, 2018, 05:22:28 PM »
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  • Hitler  was supported by the Protestant people of Germany not the Catholics.
    Your idiotic remarks are consistent, if not amusing.


    Pius XI and the Rise of Adolf Hitler
    Roman Catholic Popes series by William P. Meyers

    The Catholic Church and it Popes had long opposed democracy as a method of government, preferring monarchies or dictatorships, especially those that were in favor of making Catholicism the exclusive legal religion. Until World War I the main enemy of the church was the combination of democracy and secularism (the idea that governments should not force any particular religion on their subjects), both of which were becoming stronger during the 19th century in Protestant nations. Atheism, anarchism and socialism were also feared, but until World War I there was no government controlled by socialists.
    The triumph of the Leninist version of Marxism in the Russian Revolution by 1922 had brought a new enemy of the Church to the forefront. Pius XI set out to destroy the atheist state in the Soviet Union and to prevent atheism, communism or even socialism and democracy spreading to other nations around the world. However, the Catholic Church itself was probably weaker than at any time since it became the sole legal religion of the Roman Empire.
    The Church's cooperation with the fascist regime in Italy showed a path forward. Pope Pius XI sought to place authoritarian, pro-Catholic regimes in every nation. Germany was a particularly important nation in the Pope's plan. It was an industrial power and it was well-situated geographically to lead a crusade against Russian and other communist nations within the Soviet Union.
    When Pius XI became Pope in 1922 the German National Socialist Party, or nαzι Party, was an insignificant political force inside Germany. Although Hitler was born Catholic, he was above all a Germany nationalist who probably saw the Pope, and potentially the Catholic Church in Germany, as an international institution that would only help Germany if a German Pope, a creature of Hitler, were appointed. At the same time Hitler had a certain admiration for Mussolini and the Italian fascists, who came to power for practical purposes when Mussolini was appointed Prime Minister on October 28, 1922.
    Before Pius XI decided to hitch the Catholic Church's fortunes to Hitler, he supported the rise of other authoritarian Catholic politicians in Germany. These actions set the conditions that eventually allowed Pius XI to help propel Adolf Hitler to dictatorial control of Germany. Pius XI's representative in Germany (Papal Nuncio) all through the period being discussed was Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, who would later become Pius XII.
    Germany at the time had a population that was more Protestant than Catholic, but religious observance in general was declining. Those with church affiliations tended to be Catholic in southern German provinces, and Protestant in northern ones. There was no strict correlation between right-wing parties and particular religions, but the Catholic Church hierarchy tended strongly to the right. A Catholic Centre Party, existed, but it posed problems for the Church hierarchy because, as a participant in a Democratic system, its membership sometimes saw its role as building a good democracy, rather than as an instrument for the destruction of democracy. The leader of the democratic wing of this Catholic Party, Matthias Erzberger, was αssαssιnαtҽd in 1921 by a right-wing Catholic paramilitary organization. A Dr. Marx became head of the Catholic Party. In 1924 the Catholic Party entered a coalition with the German National Peoples Party, the party of rich industrialists and the army. Dr. Marx became Chancellor, but the parliamentary democracy system continued to function.
    The 1928 elections made the Social Democratic Party the dominant party in the Reichstag and the Catholic Party vote shrank dramatically. Wishing to retain some power, the Catholic Party made a coalition with the Social Democrats with Hermann Mueller as Chancellor. About the same time Pius XI and Cardinal Pacelli concluded that, while they favored a dictatorship, the Catholic Party might not be the best instrument for that. It had too little support among the German people. They needed a party that could whip up the German people for a crusade to crush atheism in Germany and then attack the USSR. At first their preferred instrument would be the German National Peoples Party, even though it was not an exclusively Catholic party.
    However Paul von Hindenburg, President of Germany, and his allies were actively looking for a way to create a military dictatorship. They believed Article 48 of the German ("Weimar") Constitution could be used for that purpose. In 1930 Hindenburg dismissed Mueller and picked Dr. Heinrich Bruening (or Brüning) of the Catholic Party to do the dirty work. On April 1, 1930, Chancellor Bruening became the effective dictator of Germany. However, he was placed in power by others, and would not be able to hold onto power. Note that the global economic Great Depression had begun by this point.
    Bruening tried to exercise power under Article 48, but there was resistance, so he called for new elections. It was in the September 1930 elections that the nαzι's program of national socialism - jobs and bread for all - caught the electorate's mood. The nαzιs had 107 deputies elected to the Reichstag, the Social Democrats 142. The communists took 77 seats, The Catholic Centre Party elected only 68 and the German National Peoples Partyonly 41. [See complete 1930 German election results]
    It was clear to Pius XI and Cardinal Pacelli that neither the Catholic Party nor the Nationalist Party had enough popular support to form the basis of a fascist-style dictatorship. They had not ignored Hitler, but now they began to court him. The potential combination of the Communists and Social Democrats (which never occurred) particularly terrified the Pontiff.
    The Social Democrats remained in their coalition with the Catholic Party, and Bruening remained Chancellor. As the economic situation became worse, the nαzιs were able to lay the blame on the ruling coalition (just as in the U.S. the Democrats blamed Herbert Hoover and the Republicans). Bruening made the mistake (probably influenced by Cardinal Pacelli) of seeing Hitler as an ally against Communism rather than a serious rival for power. In late 1930 Chancellor Bruening agreed to give some cabinet posts to the nαzιs, but the negotiations broke down when Hitler demanded more posts than Bruening was willing to give up. One of Hitler's financial supporters was the Catholic industrialist Thyssen, also a supporter of Bruening, arranged for Hitler to meet with President Hindenburg. A deal was made where Bruening would continue in office for one year, Hindenburg would be supported by Hitler in another term as President, and nαzιs would then be given key positions in the cabinet. But again the deal broke down before it was implemented.
    Bruening was very unpopular, as was his pet plan to restore the monarchy. On May 30, 1932 the re-elected Hindenburg dismissed Chancellor Bruening. The generals thought they were in charge; a cabinet was formed headed by General von Schleicher. Strangely, by this time the Vatican was backing Hitler. The generals, still uncertain of Hitler, decided on a compromise Catholic Chancellor, Franz von Papen. When another election was held in July 1932 [See Germany July 1932 election], the results were a further weakening of the Catholic Centre Party and a strengthening of the nαzιs, who became the largest party, and Communists.
    Hitler had to win over many people to come to power. Any of a number of individuals or groups might have blocked him at one point or another: German capitalists, the military, Pius XI, and the electorate, for instance. I would not argue that Pius XI simply put Hitler in power. Rather, he used the influence of the Church to promote a series of Catholic would be dictators, of whom Hitler was simply the last and most formidable.
    Franz von Papen owned the largest Catholic newspaper corporation in Germany. He had the support of many highly influential German Catholics, but not of Pius XI or Cardinal Pacelli (who at this point was Vatican Secretary of State). Pius XI wanted the Catholic Centre Party dissolved in favor of the nαzιs. There were many in the Party who wanted to keep the Catholic Party alive and rule through a coalition with the National Socialists and German National Peoples Party; they supported von Papen.
    Intrigues rather than elections shaped Germany from this point forward. Von Papen was replaced by yet another Catholic Chancellor, General Kurt von Schleicher. Von Papen, aggrieved, is given credit for persuading Hindenburg to dump Schleicher in favor of Hitler. Von Papen promised the support of Pius XI to Hitler in return for Hitler's promise to destroy Communism and make the Catholic Church the official German church.
    Hitler became Chancellor of Germany on January 30, 1933.


    So much for your absurd claims.....
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle


    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #83 on: June 22, 2018, 07:19:15 PM »
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  • Wait, World War 2 was a Jєωιѕн Holy War against Christian Europe? Never heard that before.

    Offline poche

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #84 on: June 22, 2018, 10:41:47 PM »
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  • Wrong, he was held in high esteem by the many of the Catholic citizens,many of whom died in their basements, incinerated,hiding in their basements with melted Rosaries in their hands through the deliberate allied bombing of innocent civilians. Catholics were primary targets in the Jєωιѕн Holy war against Christian Europe. Can you guess who won?
    There were also a number of Catholics who died with their rosaries in their hands as they were incinerated in their homes in London while it was being bombed by the Germans. There were also many Catholics who were put to death in various cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρs in various parts of the nαzι held territories. The largest cemetery for priests is at Dachau. 

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #85 on: June 22, 2018, 11:24:46 PM »
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  • Poche,  did you know that England was bombing German civilians for almost a year before the Germans responded in kind, and Churchill was on record as saying that he wanted to burn six million of them so they would capitulate.

    The British public was largely ignorant for the reason that the Germans started bombing them and today, they still believe that it was the Germans who first bombed civilians.

    You are on the wrong side of history and you belive all of the propagandists lies.


    Offline Hermenegild

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #86 on: June 23, 2018, 12:37:01 AM »
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  • Offline rum

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #87 on: June 23, 2018, 12:38:54 AM »
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  • This quote from Pope Pius XII on heredity, somewhat related to some of the things discussed on this thread.

    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline poche

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #88 on: June 23, 2018, 02:25:59 AM »
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  • This quote from Pope Pius XII on heredity, somewhat related to some of the things discussed on this thread.
    In her Way of Perfection, Theresa of Avila said that she titles of nobility, bloodlines, and things like that were obstacles to holiness. 

    Offline Cera

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    Re: nαzι Ideology
    « Reply #89 on: June 23, 2018, 05:54:19 PM »
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  • If you think that Pope Pius XI backed Hitler and his policies then I would suggest that you take another look at Mit Brennender Sorge.
    Thanks Poche. I went to the lazy readers tool, wikipedia for info on Mit Brennender Sorge and found this:
    Hitler then proceeded to take a mile where he had been given an inch" and closed all Catholic institutions whose functions weren't strictly religious:[22]
    Quote
    It quickly became clear that [Hitler] intended to imprison the Catholics, as it were, in their own churches. They could celebrate mass and retain their rituals as much as they liked, but they could have nothing at all to do with German society otherwise. Catholic schools and newspapers were closed, and a propaganda campaign against the Catholics was launched.
    — 
    Following the signing of the docuмent, the formerly outspoken nature of opposition by German Catholic leaders towards the nαzι movement weakened considerably.[23] But violations of the Concordat by the nαzιs began almost immediately and were to continue such that Falconi described the Concordat with Germany as "a complete failure".[24] The Concordat, wrote William Shirer, "was hardly put to paper before it was being broken by the nαzι Government". The nαzιs had promulgated their sterilization law, an offensive policy in the eyes of the Catholic Church, on 14 July. On 30 July, moves began to dissolve the Catholic Youth League. Clergy, nuns and lay leaders were to be targeted, leading to thousands of arrests over the ensuing years, often on trumped-up charges of currency smuggling or "immorality".[25] Historian of the German Resistance Peter Hoffmann wrote that, following the nαzι takeover:[26]
    Quote
    [The Catholic Church] could not silently accept the general persecution, regimentation or oppression, nor in particular the sterilization law of summer 1933. Over the years until the outbreak of war Catholic resistance stiffened until finally its most eminent spokesman was the Pope himself with his encyclical Mit brennender Sorge ... of 14 March 1937, read from all German Catholic pulpits... In general terms, therefore, the churches were the only major organisations to offer comparatively early and open resistance: they remained so in later years.
    — 
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