Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: Matthew on August 20, 2011, 12:02:42 PM
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Political correctness always bugs me in advertisements -- you know, when a children's storybook about "playing with their friends" features an asian, a european, a hispanic, and a black -- usually of both genders. Usually the mix is 100% random, even though the book is in English.
I hate it because it denies reality and common sense. I went to a very mixed high school, and the blacks & whites did NOT associate that indiscriminately!
Anyhow, I saw an advertisement today that I wanted to share on this topic.
Question: Is this child white, black, or hispanic?
Answer: Yes.
At first, I thought it was Barack Obama. I was close!
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I always wish that some traditional Catholic graphics designer would create some "mock" advertisements with no regard for Political Correctness whatsoever.
You know, show a family with 9 closely spaced kids and portray it as being normal.
Or have an advertisement for a pizza place and say, "celebrate with all your friends!" and have all 12 friends be the same race as the birthday boy :)
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Looks like a mulatto, which is what Obama is too.
I feel sorry for kids like that...they don't belong anywhere, and it does eat away at them (I have a close friend who is mulatto, and she is OBSESSED with the race issue, because she doesn't know who or what she is.)
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
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Judaix, blacks and mexicans are ALL obsessed with race.
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It is probably more accurate to say the overwhelming majority rather than All.
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Looks like a mulatto, which is what Obama is too.
I feel sorry for kids like that...they don't belong anywhere, and it does eat away at them (I have a close friend who is mulatto, and she is OBSESSED with the race issue, because she doesn't know who or what she is.)
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
I wouldn't go so far as to say sinful, though it does cause problems for the child as far as identity goes.
I think it's best to have an identity -- where you came from, your people, your family, etc. or else some one is going to give you a new identity.
"Dissolve et coagula"
"Ordo ab chao"
The first means "Take apart and put together again"
The second is "Order out of chaos"
Both have a similar meaning -- first you tear down, then you rebuild in a new image.
First they destroy all races/nationalities/identities, then they can give us all a common "new" culture -- completely antithetical to the Catholic Faith of course...
You can't even replace nationality with the Catholic Faith -- because it's nice to be a certain KIND of Catholic, not just a generic "Catholic". There are lots of different personalities, etc. A choleric Spaniard is going to happier being a Spanish Catholic -- complete with Spanish Catholic saints just like him who overcame their faults, etc. to become saints. It's sort of like a brand name -- what KIND of Catholic. God meant for it to be that way. He didn't create us all the same. He wants us all to serve Him as baptized Catholics, but He very much wants us to do it in a different way.
If God didn't think that way, he wouldn't have created so many different kinds of men and animals.
Even when you had the Holy Roman Empire, and a united Christendom, people still had identity based on their people, and where they were from. It didn't lead to hatreds or anything, but it was still there. Having a national identity in itself isn't a bad thing. It tends to be a bulwark against the designs of the Enemy.
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I guess what I'm trying to say is --
One's national identity is a defense against those who try to change society into something anti-Catholic. Your people's traditions, if Catholic, can really help you to be stable against such an onslaught.
For example, the hundreds of thousands of Irish priests and religious, as well as layfolk, who lived holy lives over the years seem to be pushing me to be a good Catholic, to not let them down.
Ireland, the "Isle of saints", sent so many priests out -- men just like me -- to convert (and re-convert) countless pagans throughout Europe and the rest of the world. I'm part of something that goes back much further than 50 years. I'm just part of the current generation, which stretches back to those Catholic men and women who lived in Ireland (and Germany) and fought some of the same battles I'm fighting today.
It gives me confidence that "I can do it" since men with similar personality, talents, etc. did it centuries ago.
If I wasn't part of a history like that, it would just be me vs. the world. MUCH harder, if you ask me. And that's certainly how the Enemy sees it.
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Looks like a mulatto, which is what Obama is too.
I feel sorry for kids like that...they don't belong anywhere, and it does eat away at them (I have a close friend who is mulatto, and she is OBSESSED with the race issue, because she doesn't know who or what she is.)
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
Interesting. I am white. My wife was Filipino. My kids seem to have turned out okay. They certainly knew what they were as children. They were human beings, and Catholic children of God.
They played with black and brown kids too, but since they were mongrels to begin with, perhaps that won't seem so incomprehensible or politically correct.
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Looks like a mulatto, which is what Obama is too.
I feel sorry for kids like that...they don't belong anywhere, and it does eat away at them (I have a close friend who is mulatto, and she is OBSESSED with the race issue, because she doesn't know who or what she is.)
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
Interesting. I am white. My wife was Filipino. My kids seem to have turned out okay. They certainly knew what they were as children. They were human beings, and Catholic children of God.
They played with black and brown kids too, but since they were mongrels to begin with, perhaps that won't seem so incomprehensible or politically correct.
Here we go...
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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...
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
I wouldn't go so far as to say sinful, though it does cause problems for the child as far as identity goes.
I think it's best to have an identity -- where you came from, your people, your family, etc. or else some one is going to give you a new identity.
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You can't even replace nationality with the Catholic Faith -- because it's nice to be a certain KIND of Catholic, not just a generic "Catholic". There are lots of different personalities, etc. A choleric Spaniard is going to happier being a Spanish Catholic -- complete with Spanish Catholic saints just like him who overcame their faults, etc. to become saints. It's sort of like a brand name -- what KIND of Catholic. God meant for it to be that way. He didn't create us all the same. He wants us all to serve Him as baptized Catholics, but He very much wants us to do it in a different way.
If God didn't think that way, he wouldn't have created so many different kinds of men and animals.
Even when you had the Holy Roman Empire, and a united Christendom, people still had identity based on their people, and where they were from. It didn't lead to hatreds or anything, but it was still there. Having a national identity in itself isn't a bad thing. It tends to be a bulwark against the designs of the Enemy.
I don't know about over there, but having a mixed heritage (nationality-wise at least) is incredibly common in my experience.
I can't think of many, if any, people who do not have different nationalities in their ancestry.
How many people can you think of who can say of themselves, "Both my parents were English, and both their sets of parents were English.... etc"
What? No Irish?
I know of marriages between English/Australian, English/Austrian, English/French, English/Irish, English/African, English/New Zealand, English/German.
I can't think of many English/English marriages! Except my own, and even I'm not completely English (being partly Irish).
And you'd think an English/Irish marriage would be problematic, given our history. Yet, somehow there are an awful lot of English/Irish marriages.
And I don't see why being a product of two different races should be any more of an identity crisis than being a product of people of two different languages.
God confused our tongues for a reason! And yet, we marry foreigners all the time. And with the Church's blessing.
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Political correctness always bugs me in advertisements -- you know, when a children's storybook about "playing with their friends" features an asian, a european, a hispanic, and a black...
Such tokenism goes way back!
(http://www.cancunissafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/WiseMenAdorationMurillo.png)
(http://www.wohola.co.uk/photos/epiphany_three_kings_6_jan_0.jpg)
(http://static.artbible.info/large/wijzen2_durer.jpg)
(http://www.casa-in-italia.com/artpx/flem/images/David_Metropolitan_Adoration_magi.JPG)
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I'm glad you noticed/brought this up, it's something that's mildly annoyed me for years: the ads with a model United Nations at a kid's birthday party or playing.
However, I would say that what you're seeing is much more common in certain areas. For example where we're at my neighborhood looks like that. We're also much more populous (LA County) and we're in a traditionally port town. So our neighbors almost all speak 2 languages, are varying shades of brown, my own house is biracial, and to find a 'white' family....lessee...there's on on this block 4 doors down. That's it.
When the kids play on my block, my biracial kid plays with 2 Peruvian American kids, a half-Vietnamese/half-Taiwanese boy, 2 kids that are half Indian/half-Iranian and the girl at the corner house is half-Mexican and her dad is white. There's that one white family 4 doors down, but their 2 boys are too big to play with all these toddlers.
So, her (and their) birthday parties look like an ad that we think is unrealistic, but weirdly, I live in this world. Yesterday however we spent the day at the beach with the wife's family and it was literally over 50 people where I was the only white guy (one husband is Indian too) so it is true that people generally hang out with their own and not in 'rainbow coalitions'
Point being, in urban (I mean really urban) areas such groups of friends are somewhat common, and advertisers may be making ads that, rather than trying to promote some agenda, are there to market to more dense populations (LA, NYC, etc)??
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I guess that's why I notice it -- I live in rural Texas (with frequent visits to a nearby large city). We're nowhere near that diverse here. Just a bunch of whites and hispanics for the most part.
Regarding Clare's images --
Those make perfect sense -- "omnes gentes" (all peoples/nations) should worship Him. He is King of the whole world. The artist was probably trying to portray that. Plus the Three Kings were not Jєωιѕн -- they were from a relatively distant land (of course, the Jews didn't look like Irish folk either!)
Speaking of which, it annoys me when the Anglos (white folk) push the envelope all the way off the cliff and portray Our Lord as having dirty-blonde hair and blue eyes. You might as well portray Him as black for how historically accurate it is. At least portray him with dark hair and brown eyes. Jews didn't have anything but the darkest of brown eyes. Look at any middle eastern man today -- that's what the Jews looked like, more or less. You don't see blondes; you don't see blue eyes.
Our Lord created all peoples; I didn't. God is obviously going to be more objective than me -- and we're talking about all men worshipping Jesus Christ. What do all men and nations have to do with me? :rolleyes:
Humanly speaking, I don't feel any special attraction to those who are not like myself. Hey, at least I'm honest. But because of my Faith, since I became a serious Catholic, I do enjoy the company of any fervent Catholic and find the differences interesting. I enjoy talking with, being with other races as long as they're fellow Catholics. That's how it's meant to be. (BTW, I don't enjoy small talk with anyone though. I prefer one-on-one 1 1/2 hour conversations to (100) 1 minute conversations about nothing.)
Friendship has to be based on something two people have in common. Since the Faith is the center of my life, it would be difficult to form a friendship with any non-Catholic -- even an Irish-German :) I have proof, too. I know several people "of my own race" who have similar intellect, economic status, etc. but because they're not Catholic, I don't have much to relate to.
But if I wasn't Catholic I'd probably just seek out friends of my own race, in my own socio-economic group. That's my comfort zone.
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What is better than sitting at home alone on a Friday night?
Lonely for romance and love?
Bitcoin mining, mobile app design, computer building, PC tech, computer repair, or computer programming.
Some might prefer what the above sentence does to the advertising mix on this site -- I didn't like the ads that came up so far :) Let's see what happens.
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I said what I did about it being wrong to deliberately have children of mixed heritage because I am one of those children, now grown.
I'm not racially mixed (though some would say I am, since I am half Jєωιѕн and half Gentile). But it was VERY hard for me growing up...to this day I still have "issues" with identity.
I felt if I identified with what my father was, I was slapping my mother and her family in the face. And I felt if I identified with what my mother was, I was slapping my father and his family in the face.
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There has been no Jєωιѕн or Gentile for the last 2K yrs-- only Roman Catholics.
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I said what I did about it being wrong to deliberately have children of mixed heritage because I am one of those children, now grown.
There's nothing wrong with deliberately having children with one's spouse. In fact, it's a good thing.
I felt if I identified with what my father was, I was slapping my mother and her family in the face. And I felt if I identified with what my mother was, I was slapping my father and his family in the face.
Why not just be yourself?
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President Obama, Sgt. James Crowley, Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.
The White House issued an executive order on Thursday titled “Establishing a Coordinated Government-wide Initiative to Promote Diversity and Inclusion in the Federal Workforce.” The purpose of the order is “to promote the federal workplace as a model of equal opportunity, diversity and inclusion.” In other words, it would be better for the government if public-spirited white workers sought employment elsewhere. Lost amid all the politically correct box-checking is the principle that the most qualified person should be hired for a job.
President Obama’s new order instructs federal agencies to design new strategies for hiring, promoting and keeping workers of “diverse” backgrounds. The diversity the government is seeking is not diversity of ideas, outlooks or work experiences. In contemporary political parlance, “diversity” refers primarily to the color of one’s skin and not the content of one’s character. The executive order says the federal government “must create a culture that encourages collaboration, flexibility and fairness to enable individuals to participate to their full potential.” In the name of “fairness,” however, the government will intensify programs that discriminate against white Americans by extending special privileges to everyone else. The order also says that “attaining a diverse, qualified workforce is one of the cornerstones of the merit-based civil service,” though merit and ability are not the metrics of choice when measuring success in diversity-driven career programs.
The order states that by law, the federal government’s recruitment policies should “endeavor to achieve a workforce from all segments of society” and that “as the nation’s largest employer, the federal government has a special obligation to lead by example.” In that respect, the government could largely declare mission accomplished. A quick look at the demographic breakdown of the federal payroll shows that “diversity” goals have been more than met. According to the Office of Personnel Management, federal employees in fiscal 2010 were 66.2 percent white, 17.7 percent black, 8 percent Hispanic, 5.6 percent Asian and Pacific Islander and 1.8 percent American Indian. Compared to the general U.S. population, the federal force is a bit too diverse. Blacks are overrepresented by 6.9 percent compared to the civilian work force, Asians and Pacific Islanders by 1.2 percent, and American Indians are more than double their proportion of the population at large. White Americans, who make up about 70 percent of the work force, are underrepresented by around 4 percent. Hispanics are also underrepresented despite the Clinton-era executive order 13171, “Hispanic Employment in the Federal Government.
In all this "Affirmative Action", and Diversity. Are we getting the best employee,
or it is a numbers gain to get votes in an election!
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Clare, those lower two images look doctored. I have looked at lots of medieval art, I don't remember a great deal of black people in them, sorry. But if you open up any modern-day college brochure, it will always be a black, an Asian, and a white. Over and over and over again.
It is these politically-correct people who stoke up race-hatred. They so overemphasize the virtues of the "oppressed" races that they overly flatter and stroke the egos of blacks -- leading them on to ever worse behavior, by the way -- while putting whites on the defensive. There is nothing a black guy can do now that he doesn't have some excuse for.
What is the biggest movie in the nation now? The Help, about black slaves and how they end up raising the children of their oppressors. I haven't even seen the movie, but something tells me I know what it is. The whites are cold and prissy and obsessed with money, the blacks are warm and full of folk wisdom and like to sing gospel at revival meetings, etc. This "noble savage" archetype is demeaning above all for the blacks. How can people not see the condescension inherent in all of this? Catholicism should be the common denominator, as Matthew said, not some inherent Uncle Remus "wisdom" put in the mouths of blacks by white screenwriters.
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I said what I did about it being wrong to deliberately have children of mixed heritage because I am one of those children, now grown.
There's nothing wrong with deliberately having children with one's spouse. In fact, it's a good thing.
I felt if I identified with what my father was, I was slapping my mother and her family in the face. And I felt if I identified with what my mother was, I was slapping my father and his family in the face.
Why not just be yourself?
Indeed Clare.
What's with all the hyperbole that merely being who you are or living your Faith is somehow an insult to anyone? How bizarre, and what a terrible burden on oneself.
My mother's family are lifelong Catholic-haters. Whore of Babylon and all that.
When I converted I might as well have grown horns. Who cares?
You're not slapping anyone in the face.
Also, ethnic Jew ≠ religious Jew, so convert them to the Faith.
If they're religious Jews, convert them to the Faith.
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Clare, those lower two images look doctored. I have looked at lots of medieval art, I don't remember a great deal of black people in them, sorry.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/a/africans-in-medieval-and-renaissance-art-three-kings/
The earliest known example of a black king may be represented in a wall painting of about 1360 in the Emmaus monastery in Prague. It is certain that by the beginning of the 15th century some European artists had begun to depict one of the kings as black rather than white. The Magi had become representatives of the three continents of the Old World - Europe, Asia and Africa (America only became known to Europeans in 1492). The Magi can also represent the three ages of life - youth, maturity and old age.
...
Although the black king was fairly common in Northern European art by the end of the 15th century, it was less frequent in Florentine Renaissance art. Central Italian artists were among the last to adopt the image, though black attendants are sometimes included in the retinue of three white Magi.
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Its easy for those who have never personally dealt with racial or ethnic divisions within onesself, to say "just be yourself". Until you have lived it, you won't understand.
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Its easy for those who have never personally dealt with racial or ethnic divisions within onesself, to say "just be yourself". Until you have lived it, you won't understand.
I've dealt with it, trust me. It's as big of a deal as you make of it.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
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There is more to race than just the color of ones skin.
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I use to listen to The Front Page-- there was a black caller who insisted white peoples absence of skin color was because they(we) spent eons as cave men.
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I am ethnically diverse-- English, Italian and Irish. It never exactly bothered me but it was a blessing to discover the unifying force of being a Roman Catholic. It might be a good idea for others to consider this and quit whining.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
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There is more to race than just the color of ones skin.
EXACTLY.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
My apologies if it was someone besides
Daegus who claims black peoples pigmentation is due to exposure to the Sun.
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The remark was made in a discussion where someone made reference to a giraffe. I cannot recall where it was and for some reason, the search function shows no results for the term giraffe.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
My apologies if it was someone besides
Daegus who claims black peoples pigmentation is due to exposure to the Sun.
I don't think anyone said that. I think Daegus was talking about exposure to sun on a tropical island and you took his post out of context and have mocked him for it atleast 3 times since.
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Then it was Daegus
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
My apologies if it was someone besides
Daegus who claims black peoples pigmentation is due to exposure to the Sun.
I don't think anyone said that. I think Daegus was talking about exposure to sun on a tropical island and you took his post out of context and have mocked him for it atleast 3 times since.
I didn't say, at any point in time, that "black" pigmentation (there's no such thing as black skin by the way. If you had any idea of what you were talking about then you would know that, roscoe) is caused by the sun. I was denying the silly notion that being exposed to the sun can't somehow make you darker, which roscoe appears to be refusing because he's a little confused.
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Then it was Daegus
No you plant, you don't get it. I said nobody said anything about exposure to the sun being the cause for dark skin. You don't have any place posting on forums if you can't participate in logical discussions.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
Roscoe can't get along with anyone here, which makes me wonder why he's still here. Just don't let him get to you.
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Not to derail this very pertinent thread, but the Baltimore Catechism does say that that the physical differences that exist among the races of mankind ("phenotypic variation," as we would say today) were caused by exposure to different environmental factors, of which the sun certainly would qualify. Hence, there is nothing illogical or unCatholic about saying so.
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
Roscoe can't get along with anyone here, which makes me wonder why he's still here. Just don't let him get to you.
I'm surprised he isn't banned yet. He has the tendency to race bait even on threads that aren't about race. Perhaps he's obsessed with race? Who knows?
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Not to derail this very pertinent thread, but the Baltimore Catechism does say that that the physical differences that exist among the races of mankind ("phenotypic variation," as we would say today) were caused by exposure to different environmental factors, of which the sun certainly would qualify. Hence, there is nothing illogical or unCatholic about saying so.
According to roscoe's incredibly scientific background, what you're saying is absolutely false. In fact, I'm sure roscoe has plenty of studies to back up everything he says. :smoke-pot:
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The problem with Daegus is that he seems to have convinced himself black people have darker skin pigmentation because of exposure to the Sun.
And the problem with you is that you seem to have convinced yourself that MJ has helped your medical problems, but it has done nothing but mess up your ability to reason properly. And you said on another thread a while back that the MJ actually wasn't helping you and that you were still ailing. I think you should recognize your own fallacies before you accuse someone of saying something he never said. That is also a fallacy by the way, the straw-man fallacy which you love to use.
I was actually willing to give roscoe another chance so I unblocked him. Since he appears to be fond of making things up about me, back on the ignore list he goes. Besides, I don't see what that statement (that I did not make) even has to do with what I said.
Roscoe can't get along with anyone here, which makes me wonder why he's still here. Just don't let him get to you.
I'm surprised he isn't banned yet. He has the tendency to race bait even on threads that aren't about race. Perhaps he's obsessed with race? Who knows?
I think Matthew just doesn't have the heart to ban him for whatever reason, otherwise he'd be banned considering 11 different people have asked Matthew to ban him. I just accept that CatholicInfo is stuck with him whether we like it or not and don't complain about it. Roscoe is obsessed with alot of things, race obviously being one of them.
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Not to derail this very pertinent thread, but the Baltimore Catechism does say that that the physical differences that exist among the races of mankind ("phenotypic variation," as we would say today) were caused by exposure to different environmental factors, of which the sun certainly would qualify. Hence, there is nothing illogical or unCatholic about saying so.
I didn't say it was unCatholic to say exposure to environmental factors could cause change in skin color. I said it was wrong for roscoe to accuse Daegus of saying things he never said.
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Not to derail this very pertinent thread, but the Baltimore Catechism does say that that the physical differences that exist among the races of mankind ("phenotypic variation," as we would say today) were caused by exposure to different environmental factors, of which the sun certainly would qualify. Hence, there is nothing illogical or unCatholic about saying so.
According to roscoe's incredibly scientific background, what you're saying is absolutely false. In fact, I'm sure roscoe has plenty of studies to back up everything he says. :smoke-pot:
:roll-laugh1:
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Not to derail this very pertinent thread, but the Baltimore Catechism does say that that the physical differences that exist among the races of mankind ("phenotypic variation," as we would say today) were caused by exposure to different environmental factors, of which the sun certainly would qualify. Hence, there is nothing illogical or unCatholic about saying so.
I didn't say it was unCatholic to say exposure to environmental factors could cause change in skin color. I said it was wrong for roscoe to accuse Daegus of saying things he never said.
My comment wasn't directed at you, sir. I wasn't accusing anybody for what they said or didn't say. I was merely "speaking to the question," as it were.
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Judaix, blacks and mexicans are ALL obsessed with race.
Thats funny you arrogant prick- it seems like the only ones who bring up race on this forum are "whites" most of all you, but now the moderator as well.
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I'm sorry, but this #### really annoys me. :really-mad2:
Wait I'm not sorry. I think there are just so many people on here so focused on the negativity of blacks and mexicans, anything thats not white, and think its Catholic.
Listen- whites, blacks, mexicans, filipinos, arabs, germans, other asians- they all do stupid crap. I fail to realize how race should play into my belief as a Catholic??? Hey- if mid-millennial peoples never mixed- fine. If this was the apex of Christendom , cool. But where we are now in the world, how in the heck does it matter?
Serious, the way Roscoe is still here after some of the crap he says baffles me. I think the white supremacist mentality has crept into Traditional Catholics, I'm just sorry to say I see it here. Screw that.
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I am ethnically diverse-- English, Italian and Irish. It never exactly bothered me but it was a blessing to discover the unifying force of being a Roman Catholic. It might be a good idea for others to consider this and quit whining.
The prev poster is a Classic Victicrat.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/08/23/dem_congresswoman_blames_black_unemployment_on_racism.html
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I'm sorry, but this #### really annoys me. :really-mad2:
Wait I'm not sorry. I think there are just so many people on here so focused on the negativity of blacks and mexicans, anything thats not white, and think its Catholic.
Listen- whites, blacks, mexicans, filipinos, arabs, germans, other asians- they all do stupid crap. I fail to realize how race should play into my belief as a Catholic??? Hey- if mid-millennial peoples never mixed- fine. If this was the apex of Christendom , cool. But where we are now in the world, how in the heck does it matter?
Serious, the way Roscoe is still here after some of the crap he says baffles me. I think the white supremacist mentality has crept into Traditional Catholics, I'm just sorry to say I see it here. Screw that.
roscoe isn't even worth taking seriously the vast majority (85+%) of the time. He's a 60+ year old pot smoker who doesn't seem to have much better to do than carp about every race that isn't white.
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Classic Victicrat
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The soul of black people can be saved by submission to the Primacy of St Peter. Are the victicrats happy now? U guys are just a disgusting race card playing cabal. There always has to be the GWB out there for U Communists to hate.
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This is me as an infant (I am multiracial --black, white, asian).
I'm just curious if the posters who feel so sorry for people who are ethnically mixed realize this is the typical state in many Catholic countries (Mexico, Philiipines, Cuba, Brazil, Panama, etc)? Also, I don't understand the OP's resentment or problem with the way the child in the marketing looks: most people in the world are dark-skinned, not "white," so his appearance isn't perceived as strange.
Do Brazilians, for example, feel ethnically/racially confused, or is a multiracial society seen as perfectly natural in their Catholic nation?
North American Catholics really, really need step out of their limited worldview (rural Texas is not the typical Latin, Catholic environment). There are some attitudes, particularly with regards to race that are peculiar to only North American "Irish" Catholics and no other Catholics the world over.
Incidentally, being mixed race as offered me the opportunity to relate to any number of people I go -- I've traveled the world and have no problem integrating into any environment. I also don't have a predominant racial group of friends (although I tend to avoid white Americans because these kinds of conversations are small-minded and tedious).
Mixed-race people who have a problem with themselves have bigger issues than the race issues...
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They are Victicrats :facepalm:
It may be a good idea to consider that real Irish Catholics don't need to change their outlook on anything. U have somehow acquired a defective conception on them.
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.....should read of.
Much of your post made sense but it seems U are flirting with Victim status also.
:confused1:
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Cognorati001
You look a bit like one of my children did as a baby.
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*sigh*
Another important topic lost in the internet Egosphere.
I happened to agree with the original post. These mulitracial ads have been annoying me for years, mainly because they are a textbook example of classic agitprop. This is a very meaty, very weighty subject, which could have been explored with much profit. It dosen't look like that is going to happen now, but nevertheless I will offer an abbreviated version of the long comment I had planned to write, in the hopes that it might yet edify someone who still has the patience to read this far.
First of all, let us stipulate to the premise. Take television commercials, for example. Whenever you see a TV spot today, there is a high probability that, no matter what corporation or product the ad is ostensibly about, it will feature one of the following:
A) A black office-worker in a position of authority over whites. Does anybody remember Charles Robinson (i.e. "Max" from Night Court) in that commercial in which the line "We saved a nickel" was prominently featured? I don't recall what the ad was for, but I remember that line.
B) A female engineer or executive, being waited on attentively by three or four rather sheepish looking men. She usually presents as a geologist in a petroleum company commercial. The camera swings carressingly by her as she unroles some desk-sized survey maps in her hard hat and business suit.
C) An Asian male who is "one of the guys." He can be seen chugging brews with a retinue of other (appropriately multi-ethnic) chums, or grilling bratwursts on his back patio in his frat-boy stubble and college sweatshirt. His one outstanding feature is his irremediable rootedness in the quotidian details of the suburban beta-male playground, devoid of lofty aspirations or sublime thoughts.
D) A bosomy, prudential, middle-aged black woman who seems tough enough to be a guard at Rikers Island, and who bosses white folks into getting their business done. ("That's the power of Pinesol, baby!")
E) A nerdy white guy. Examples of this one are too numerous to mention, but the Capital One commercials of several years back, featuring David Spade and his hapless sidekick, are characteristic of the genre. These days, there is also often the innuendo that Mr. Nerdy White Guy is getting cuckolded by a member of another race (Shaquille O'Neil: "You're too slow, dad, and so's your DSL").
F) A somewhat phlegmatic white mother, who, when menanced in the park by an (always white) scoundrel in a hoodie, goes running to the arms of, not her husband or God, but some seller of security devices.
G) If an Hispanic woman appears in a commercial, she will be neither a mother nor a wife, but an attractive drone, an Ibsen Woman, a low-rent version of the business-gal in (B). Hispanic men as a rule are not shown in commercials at all, unless it is to play the victim in those home-grown television spots of which accident-and-injury law firms are so fond, for some God-forsaken reason. "If you've been hurt on the job and can't work, call attorney Sam Schmuckster. He's working hard for you!
Now, there is quite a wealth of psychological manipulation and insinuation to be discerned in these types; but first it is necessary to understand the basic style of presentation, the television commercial as "narrative" not as advertisement. The object of these dramas, these mini morality plays as it were, is to give you a sense of belonging to a certain culture with certain prescribed norms of what to pursue, what to desire, and what to fear.
The first six items, (A) through (F), have the principal effect of emasculating white men. That much should be fairly uncontroversial and has already been lamented, early and often. What is seldom recognized, however, is that these pseudo-stereotypes fill us with fascination precisely because they are contrary to known reality, i.e. they cater to our well-developed senses of irony and counterpoint, which are characteristic features practically unique to Western Man. While the content of the message is anti-Western, the style of the message is exactly in the key Western history, and is perceptible only to someone with Western intellect and Western sensibilities. There is in us the intense longing for antipodes, the projection to the opposite pole, and the quite Baroque desire to juxtapose and explore all possible permutations, that leads us to take a perverse sort of satisfaction in accomplishing the ironic, if only in the abstract realm of art.
This is the same sort of "contrapuntal" Western intellect that conceived of the planer curve as a function of two variables, and invented double-entry bookkeeping, a system of abstractly conceived debits and credits, as the engine and emblem of its economic existence. It once was a healthful conceit, and in its youth was responsible for perspective oil painting, chiaroscuro, and the music of Handel and Bach. Now in our decadence we turn our cynical and exacting eyes upon ourselves.
Item (G) above, is the exception that proves the rule, for the Western intellect also must needs have a sympathetic object, an opposite pole, on which to lavish all its pity and energy. This explains our well-known penchant for creating "charity cases," a pastime virtually unknown in the rest of the world.
We are quite decieved into thinking that these attitudes, these sensibilities of ours, are virtue itself, and not merely an overdeveloped passion for the ironic. And if I can, in a too-brief word, stride from one mountain top to another without adequate explanation, in effort to save time, I would venture to say that this highly stylized intellect of ours is the cause of the phenomenon of modernism, whole and entire, and also of the modernist heresy within the Church. For sentimental contrapuntalism in the field of politics is known as socialism, and socialism is a sin.
I would be happy to discuss this matter further if anybody shows an interest.
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Here's a rare thing!
A clip of a daft white woman and a daft black man! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XivNwQ76mCs&feature=player_embedded)
Maybe she's allowed to be portrayed as stupid because she's white, and he's allowed to be portrayed thus because he's a man.
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Here's a rare thing!
A clip of a daft white woman and a daft black man! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XivNwQ76mCs&feature=player_embedded)
Maybe she's allowed to be portrayed as stupid because she's white, and he's allowed to be portrayed thus because he's a man.
That video was to promote walking more for better health. It has nothing to do with politics or race. Or is the fact that there is a black male among a white woman offensive? Is it too 'multicultural' for a black person to stand among a white person? Man, I really hate these multicultural ads! :cussing: Presenting blacks as capable of being civilized. :facepalm:
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The soul of black people can be saved by submission to the Primacy of St Peter. Are the victicrats happy now? U guys are just a disgusting race card playing cabal. There always has to be the GWB out there for U Communists to hate.
Who the heck are you to speak? I think anyone with half a brain knows that a pot smoker who falsely interprets Scripture to read that smoking weed is ok is alot worse than two people who get upset because you're still allowed to post here. s2srea makes 12 people now who want you banned, seriously it's time for you to hit the road. Your posts are what's disgusting. Go find a marijauna or race forum to post on, you obviously aren't qualified to post on a Traditional Catholic forum.
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I'm sorry, but this #### really annoys me. :really-mad2:
Wait I'm not sorry. I think there are just so many people on here so focused on the negativity of blacks and mexicans, anything thats not white, and think its Catholic.
Listen- whites, blacks, mexicans, filipinos, arabs, germans, other asians- they all do stupid crap. I fail to realize how race should play into my belief as a Catholic??? Hey- if mid-millennial peoples never mixed- fine. If this was the apex of Christendom , cool. But where we are now in the world, how in the heck does it matter?
Serious, the way Roscoe is still here after some of the crap he says baffles me. I think the white supremacist mentality has crept into Traditional Catholics, I'm just sorry to say I see it here. Screw that.
Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
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I had no idea there were so many ego-hurt anglos on this forum. Some don't realize how much anti-'any-other-race' they've been brought up with in their homes and community. Its classic. Take, for example the white-american's outlook on Mexicans as being daft and lazy. Think of the classic Mexican in white attire and big sombrero sitting against a wall w/ tequila. To refute the ignorant (and they most definitely exist here, as I've seen them in other threads) I would suggest they read,Blood Drenched Altars (http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Drenched-Altars-Francis-Clement-Kelley/dp/0895553198), by Francis Clement Kelley (Click on the link and make the moderators a few dollars while you're at it). He clearly demonstrates that the misconception of white-American Anglos is just that, a misconception implanted in their brains by a Freemasonic government in order to case much hurt in, what was once, a thriving Catholic country. It especially sad to see amongst my fellow trads, but it seems very prevalent.
Some here are confusing marketing in the real world with soviet agitprop. I'm not saying that exists, but if I were a marketing director, you bet your ass I would get every dang race in an advertisement I could; especially promoting to a market like urban US.
Some here (and when I say some, I mean you Roscoe) are just plain narrow-minded bigots. Call me what you want. Call me a communist; call me liberal; call me buying into an agenda; I don't give a rat. I know what I am and I that's not Catholic.
I'm sure there are others on here who are not posting in order to avoid this polemical issue. That's okay. But if I were to come onto this forum for the first time, and see a moron on here talking the way he does about this, I would probably not have stayed. Fortunately, I know there's a wealth of other knowledge on here to be gained.
Ugh. Anglo Americans make me sick. So full of themselves. I hate living here sometimes. Knowing that this is so prevalent in my favorite forum just makes it worse.
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Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
Thanks SS- I wouldn't let him deter me from here. This is a wonderful forum. It just seems as if this issue continues to creep up. Its frustrating. There's so much I want to say, but, of course, we're limited here.
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I had no idea there were so many ego-hurt anglos on this forum. Some don't realize how much anti-'any-other-race' they've been brought up with in their homes and community. Its classic. Take, for example the white-american's outlook on Mexicans as being daft and lazy. Think of the classic Mexican in white attire and big sombrero sitting against a wall w/ tequila. To refute the ignorant (and they most definitely exist here, as I've seen them in other threads) I would suggest they read,Blood Drenched Altars (http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Drenched-Altars-Francis-Clement-Kelley/dp/0895553198), by Francis Clement Kelley (Click on the link and make the moderators a few dollars while you're at it). He clearly demonstrates that the misconception of white-American Anglos is just that, a misconception implanted in their brains by a Freemasonic government in order to case much hurt in, what was once, a thriving Catholic country. It especially sad to see amongst my fellow trads, but it seems very prevalent.
Some here are confusing marketing in the real world with soviet agitprop. I'm not saying that exists, but if I were a marketing director, you bet your ass I would get every dang race in an advertisement I could; especially promoting to a market like urban US.
Some here (and when I say some, I mean you Roscoe) are just plain narrow-minded bigots. Call me what you want. Call me a communist; call me liberal; call me buying into an agenda; I don't give a rat. I know what I am and I that's not Catholic.
I'm sure there are others on here who are not posting in order to avoid this polemical issue. That's okay. But if I were to come onto this forum for the first time, and see a moron on here talking the way he does about this, I would probably not have stayed. Fortunately, I know there's a wealth of other knowledge on here to be gained.
Ugh. Anglo Americans make me sick. So full of themselves. I hate living here sometimes. Knowing that this is so prevalent in my favorite forum just makes it worse.
I laughed... I cheered.... I cried....
Interesting post, s2s. :cool:
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Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
Thanks SS- I wouldn't let him deter me from here. This is a wonderful forum. It just seems as if this issue continues to creep up. Its frustrating. There's so much I want to say, but, of course, we're limited here.
Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
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I laughed... I cheered.... I cried....
Interesting post, s2s. :cool:
Thanks...? lol
I re-read it- I had a lot of typos- sorry!
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
Maybe when I'm older and living on my own (which will be soon). Right now I don't even have the money to travel abroad anyways so..
Edit: All of a sudden I'm posting from an Unknown country. How did that happen? D:
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Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
Thanks SS- I wouldn't let him deter me from here. This is a wonderful forum. It just seems as if this issue continues to creep up. Its frustrating. There's so much I want to say, but, of course, we're limited here.
Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I know, I saw that. Roscoe did the same junk to me after I had surgery. When I announced everything went fine and that I was back, instead of showing sympathy and being glad it went well like everyone else, all he did was post the pot-smoking icon. He's a coldhearted pothead who needs to be banned.
Seriously, why is roscoe still here? Can't you be banned for ridiculing someone after their mother died and accusing someone else of worshipping satan? I mean, I thought 12 people asking him to be banned was enough. Apparently not...
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All of a sudden I'm posting from an Unknown country. How did that happen? D:
It's a glitch, happens to lots of people here from time to time.
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SS, Daegus, s2, etc=== Classic, whining victicrats who have nothing else to do except try and elicit white guilt w/ the never ending race card.
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SS, Daegus, s2, etc=== Classic, whining victicrats.
roscoe= Classic pot-smoking phony who needs to get a life.
Hello? Could someone please ban this guy?
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Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
Thanks SS- I wouldn't let him deter me from here. This is a wonderful forum. It just seems as if this issue continues to creep up. Its frustrating. There's so much I want to say, but, of course, we're limited here.
Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I know, I saw that. Roscoe did the same junk to me after I had surgery. When I announced everything went fine and that I was back, instead of showing sympathy and being glad it went well like everyone else, all he did was post the pot-smoking icon. He's a coldhearted pothead who needs to be banned.
Seriously, why is roscoe still here? Can't you be banned for ridiculing someone after their mother died and accusing someone else of worshipping satan? I mean, I thought 12 people asking him to be banned was enough. Apparently not...
There was also a point in time where his 'ignored by' was at 9. NINE! That should tell you something.
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BTW-- I have read Blood Drenched Alters and also After The Boston Heresy Case by Potter.
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Please don't let a pot smoker run you off this forum. Just put roscoe on ignore. Roscoe cannot be reasoned with, he's a plant who doesn't even know how to properly debate.
Thanks SS- I wouldn't let him deter me from here. This is a wonderful forum. It just seems as if this issue continues to creep up. Its frustrating. There's so much I want to say, but, of course, we're limited here.
Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I know, I saw that. Roscoe did the same junk to me after I had surgery. When I announced everything went fine and that I was back, instead of showing sympathy and being glad it went well like everyone else, all he did was post the pot-smoking icon. He's a coldhearted pothead who needs to be banned.
Seriously, why is roscoe still here? Can't you be banned for ridiculing someone after their mother died and accusing someone else of worshipping satan? I mean, I thought 12 people asking him to be banned was enough. Apparently not...
There was also a point in time where his 'ignored by' was at 9. NINE! That should tell you something.
I think it was actually 11 or 12 at one point.
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I have an incredibly shocking theory for you: ads are not racially segregated because advertisers can make more profit the more minority groups or differing ethnic groups they target with a single ad (SHOCK! HORROR!).
For all your blathering, there is no concerted attempt to win (white) people over to multi-culturalism (most people are already anti-racist). They know they can get more money targeting different people and their sensibilities, and they can avoid losing money by not offending peoples' sensitivities.
Sorry for the reality check (I know it must be intrusive).
*sigh*
Another important topic lost in the internet Egosphere.
I happened to agree with the original post. These mulitracial ads have been annoying me for years, mainly because they are a textbook example of classic agitprop. This is a very meaty, very weighty subject, which could have been explored with much profit. It dosen't look like that is going to happen now, but nevertheless I will offer an abbreviated version of the long comment I had planned to write, in the hopes that it might yet edify someone who still has the patience to read this far.
First of all, let us stipulate to the premise. Take television commercials, for example. Whenever you see a TV spot today, there is a high probability that, no matter what corporation or product the ad is ostensibly about, it will feature one of the following:
A) A black office-worker in a position of authority over whites. Does anybody remember Charles Robinson (i.e. "Max" from Night Court) in that commercial in which the line "We saved a nickel" was prominently featured? I don't recall what the ad was for, but I remember that line.
B) A female engineer or executive, being waited on attentively by three or four rather sheepish looking men. She usually presents as a geologist in a petroleum company commercial. The camera swings carressingly by her as she unroles some desk-sized survey maps in her hard hat and business suit.
C) An Asian male who is "one of the guys." He can be seen chugging brews with a retinue of other (appropriately multi-ethnic) chums, or grilling bratwursts on his back patio in his frat-boy stubble and college sweatshirt. His one outstanding feature is his irremediable rootedness in the quotidian details of the suburban beta-male playground, devoid of lofty aspirations or sublime thoughts.
D) A bosomy, prudential, middle-aged black woman who seems tough enough to be a guard at Rikers Island, and who bosses white folks into getting their business done. ("That's the power of Pinesol, baby!")
E) A nerdy white guy. Examples of this one are too numerous to mention, but the Capital One commercials of several years back, featuring David Spade and his hapless sidekick, are characteristic of the genre. These days, there is also often the innuendo that Mr. Nerdy White Guy is getting cuckolded by a member of another race (Shaquille O'Neil: "You're too slow, dad, and so's your DSL").
F) A somewhat phlegmatic white mother, who, when menanced in the park by an (always white) scoundrel in a hoodie, goes running to the arms of, not her husband or God, but some seller of security devices.
G) If an Hispanic woman appears in a commercial, she will be neither a mother nor a wife, but an attractive drone, an Ibsen Woman, a low-rent version of the business-gal in (B). Hispanic men as a rule are not shown in commercials at all, unless it is to play the victim in those home-grown television spots of which accident-and-injury law firms are so fond, for some God-forsaken reason. "If you've been hurt on the job and can't work, call attorney Sam Schmuckster. He's working hard for you!
Now, there is quite a wealth of psychological manipulation and insinuation to be discerned in these types; but first it is necessary to understand the basic style of presentation, the television commercial as "narrative" not as advertisement. The object of these dramas, these mini morality plays as it were, is to give you a sense of belonging to a certain culture with certain prescribed norms of what to pursue, what to desire, and what to fear.
The first six items, (A) through (F), have the principal effect of emasculating white men. That much should be fairly uncontroversial and has already been lamented, early and often. What is seldom recognized, however, is that these pseudo-stereotypes fill us with fascination precisely because they are contrary to known reality, i.e. they cater to our well-developed senses of irony and counterpoint, which are characteristic features practically unique to Western Man. While the content of the message is anti-Western, the style of the message is exactly in the key Western history, and is perceptible only to someone with Western intellect and Western sensibilities. There is in us the intense longing for antipodes, the projection to the opposite pole, and the quite Baroque desire to juxtapose and explore all possible permutations, that leads us to take a perverse sort of satisfaction in accomplishing the ironic, if only in the abstract realm of art.
This is the same sort of "contrapuntal" Western intellect that conceived of the planer curve as a function of two variables, and invented double-entry bookkeeping, a system of abstractly conceived debits and credits, as the engine and emblem of its economic existence. It once was a healthful conceit, and in its youth was responsible for perspective oil painting, chiaroscuro, and the music of Handel and Bach. Now in our decadence we turn our cynical and exacting eyes upon ourselves.
Item (G) above, is the exception that proves the rule, for the Western intellect also must needs have a sympathetic object, an opposite pole, on which to lavish all its pity and energy. This explains our well-known penchant for creating "charity cases," a pastime virtually unknown in the rest of the world.
We are quite decieved into thinking that these attitudes, these sensibilities of ours, are virtue itself, and not merely an overdeveloped passion for the ironic. And if I can, in a too-brief word, stride from one mountain top to another without adequate explanation, in effort to save time, I would venture to say that this highly stylized intellect of ours is the cause of the phenomenon of modernism, whole and entire, and also of the modernist heresy within the Church. For sentimental contrapuntalism in the field of politics is known as socialism, and socialism is a sin.
I would be happy to discuss this matter further if anybody shows an interest.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
Here you go, roscoe is challenging Matthew to ban him and called CatholicInfo a "v2 anti-church forum". CatholicInfo doesn't support Vatican II first of all, and the rules say you can't criticize this forum or its moderator. So it's obvious that roscoe should be banned.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
Roscoe doesn't attend Mass. He said this on the "bipolar disorder" thread:
I have not been to Mass since I was about 15 yrs old.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
Here you go, roscoe is challenging Matthew to ban him and called CatholicInfo a "v2 anti-church forum". CatholicInfo doesn't support Vatican II first of all, and the rules say you can't criticize this forum or its moderator. So it's obvious that roscoe should be banned.
Exactly. Ban him. I've seen other people banned for criticizing the forum and the moderator (I think it was Ladislaus), so why not roscoe?
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For someone who's only been around a few months, you sure know your CathInfo history Daegus. :cool:
Yes, it was Ladislaus. I don't know why roscoe hasn't been banned yet, but according to the forum's rules he is not elligible to post here.
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For someone who's only been around a few months, you sure know your CathInfo history Daegus. :cool:
Yes, it was Ladislaus. I don't know why roscoe hasn't been banned yet, but according to the forum's rules he is not elligible to post here.
Lol, a lot of the things I know about this forum are from searching other things. I wasn't trying to find out a lot of the things I know.
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:laugh1:
Back to roscoe, he should have been banned after making this comment:
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that SS has been involved in satanic rituals.
That is just a pure sinful and malicious remark to make. He pulled similar crap with Sigismund, telling him his 17 yo relative should smoke pot. Daegus is right, roscoe is a loser. One that needs to be banned.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
Its not threatening; I wouldn't harm a little 17 year old like you. I just know you wouldn't know how to react in person to someone who isn't completely anglo, like you, yet who doesn't go around bashing in guy's heads at dodger games, even though he's part Mexican. :wink: you'd probably explode.
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
Its not threatening; I wouldn't harm a little 17 year old like you. I just know you wouldn't know how to react in person to someone who isn't completely anglo, like you, yet who doesn't go around bashing in guy's heads at dodger games, even though he's part Mexican. :wink: you'd probably explode.
Believe it or not, roscoe is over 60.
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Believe it or not, roscoe is over 60.
My good friend... that's only what he tells people :wink:
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BTW-- I am not 'Anglo'-- whatever that is.
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BTW-- I am not 'Anglo'-- whatever that is.
You know.. like a Mexican (as you say) or black... only not.
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I had no idea there were so many ego-hurt anglos on this forum. Some don't realize how much anti-'any-other-race' they've been brought up with in their homes and community. Its classic. Take, for example the white-american's outlook on Mexicans as being daft and lazy. Think of the classic Mexican in white attire and big sombrero sitting against a wall w/ tequila. To refute the ignorant (and they most definitely exist here, as I've seen them in other threads) I would suggest they read,Blood Drenched Altars (http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Drenched-Altars-Francis-Clement-Kelley/dp/0895553198), by Francis Clement Kelley (Click on the link and make the moderators a few dollars while you're at it). He clearly demonstrates that the misconception of white-American Anglos is just that, a misconception implanted in their brains by a Freemasonic government in order to case much hurt in, what was once, a thriving Catholic country. It especially sad to see amongst my fellow trads, but it seems very prevalent.
I find this stereotype especially ironic given that Mexicans, at least in my experience, are much harder working than the average anglais. Not being Mexican myself, I can only speculate as to why this is the case, but it seems to me that it derives from Mexicans being from a culture that is still much more naturally ordered than that of the Anglo-Unitedstatesians and Anglo-Canadians -- that is, one that is more paternalistic, family-oriented, and less brainwashed and/or obsessed with money and luxury. That is to say, Mexicans, on the whole, are still normal people, rather than mere consumers of mass culture and mass-produced industrial items.
Even machismo, which is common to all Latin cultures, from Quebec to Argentina and throughout the west of the European Continent, is more natural than its American counterparts, which I would identify as the brutal Germano-Puritan "man" (see: US military) and the effete, faux-sophisticated metrosɛҳuąƖ. The former is a radically perverted version of "masculinity" that emphasises stoicism and material efficiency at the expense of acknowledging the attributes of the soul and legitimate emotions and virtues, such as the impulse to protect or to sooth the pain of the weak, and the former is an outright perversion and abandonment of masculinity. While the majority of Yankees tend to be neither wholly one nor the other, these seem to be the two dominant models with which the average adolescent Anglo boy in the US is (poorly) equipped for emulation. Machismo, on the other hand, is vicious insofar as it is an excess of pride in real goods, such as a man's acknowledgment of his place in the natural order and his natural abilities, or perhaps an over-exaggeration of the treatment he deserves in compensation for the accomplishment of his duties, such as working for the support of his family.
Disclaimer : By "machismo," I do not mean a man influencing the decisions of his daughters in marriage and dating, but rather a certain attitude that tends toward an unwarranted disrespect for women, whether in amorous affairs in which women are take advantage of (see Louis XIV) or when the needs of wives and children are neglected. I do not mean to deride a legitimate manly camaraderie common in Latin countries, such as, as has been brought up on this forum, southern Italian men not changing diapers, or Quebecois men ridiculing another man as a "fif" and "moumoune" (homo, fag, etc.) for being in the passenger seat while his wife or girlfriend is driving. Not saintly behaviour, but excuseable and, at least in it's spirit if not in it's form, necessary (the reason I say this is because using such names so lightly and commonly seems to diminish the real horror that one should have towards sodomy). This is something of a tangent, but Frenchmen are often symbolised by a rooster, whereas Spaniards are often symbolised by a peacock. I would say these traditional personifications are accurate.
Some here are confusing marketing in the real world with soviet agitprop. I'm not saying that exists, but if I were a marketing director, you bet your ass I would get every dang race in an advertisement I could; especially promoting to a market like urban US.
It doesn't seem to be so clear cut. In the Midwest, for instance, such advertisements are so much outside of the ordinary experience of the typical passer-by, that it seems self-evident that they are neo-Marxist social engineering. I understand this is not the case on the Pacific coast.
I'm sure there are others on here who are not posting in order to avoid this polemical issue. That's okay. But if I were to come onto this forum for the first time, and see a moron on here talking the way he does about this, I would probably not have stayed. Fortunately, I know there's a wealth of other knowledge on here to be gained.
Well, that's because you're Mexican :smirk:. I think most Traditional Catholics in the Midwest and Upstate New York probably don't mind.
Ugh. Anglo Americans make me sick. So full of themselves. I hate living here sometimes. Knowing that this is so prevalent in my favorite forum just makes it worse.
A Traditional Catholic Mexican friend of mine and I know how you feel. We have tried to create a sort of anti-Anglo-Germanic entente (I'm Acadian French :chef:), but there's a problem of dispersion, wealth, and numbers. I think the days of Anglo domination in North America are numbered, though. Soon, many Traditional Catholic Anglo-Americans will have to swallow their unjustified sense of self-satisfaction and learn a Romance language and marry their daughters to olive- and brown-skinned Catholics, with all their (legitimate) machismo and contempt for the Yankee bourgeois "virtues."
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Wow- PereJoseph, well said.
Welcome to our forum. :cool:
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What an astonishing stupid post. Just when I conclude that you have hit bottom and couldn't possibly go any lower, you surprise me.
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All of a sudden I'm posting from an Unknown country. How did that happen? D:
It's a glitch, happens to lots of people here from time to time.
Well, sometimes I feel like I am not sure what country I am in. For example, reading this thread, I feel like I have been magically transported to South Africa in 1955.
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What an astonishing stupid post. Just when I conclude that you have hit bottom and couldn't possibly go any lower, you surprise me.
Who?
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Seriously, roscoe really is a loser. When Raoul's mother died from ѕυιcιdє and a post was made about it, what do you think roscoe did? Offer his condolences? Of course not. He instead griped about how one of his posts were deleted and was complaining about how Raoul posted an image of Pius XII that seemed blasphemous. No sympathy. No condolences.
I don't want to call him a loser. I just want to meet him in person. See what he thinks then. He lives close to me (relatively). I would want to meet him to see what his reaction is toward someone who is Catholic, and not like him. Maybe I'll see if I can figure where he goes to mass. What I would really love, is for him to meet Daegus with me. Ha ha. What say you Dae?
This sounds somewhat threatening.
BTW-- I had 14 Ignores at one time and I couldn't care less if I am banned from this v2 anti-church forum.
This is a pro VC II forum? Have you actually read any posts here? :smile:
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What an astonishing stupid post. Just when I conclude that you have hit bottom and couldn't possibly go any lower, you surprise me.
Who?
Roscoe. Sorry. I don't know why that wasn't clear.
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Oh. I see. I was so annoyed that I just hit reply rather than quoting the post I was referring to, and it looked like I was slamming a perfectly pleasant and innocent post from you, s2srea. Sorry again.
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If one recognises the anti-pope Benedict then one is a part of the v2 anti-church. There is no grey( or is it gray) area.
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Yes almighty theologian!
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Oh. I see. I was so annoyed that I just hit reply rather than quoting the post I was referring to, and it looked like I was slamming a perfectly pleasant and innocent post from you, s2srea. Sorry again.
Not at all my friend. :cheers:
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If one recognises the anti-pope Benedict then one is a part of the v2 anti-church. There is no grey( or is it gray) area.
While I certainly don't believe Benedict XVI is a true Pope, saying that anyone who recognizes Benedict is automatically a part of the Newchurch is quite a ridiculous statement.
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If one recognises the anti-pope Benedict then one is a part of the v2 anti-church. There is no grey( or is it gray) area.
Tell that to Matthew's face and see what happens if you're so confident in yourself.
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Well, assuming that Matthew reads his own forum, which clearly he does, Roscoe just did that.
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Looks like a mulatto, which is what Obama is too.
I feel sorry for kids like that...they don't belong anywhere, and it does eat away at them (I have a close friend who is mulatto, and she is OBSESSED with the race issue, because she doesn't know who or what she is.)
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
:facepalm: Oh dear.
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St. Augustine the Berber, St. Monica the Berber, St. Perpetua the Carthaginian, Moses the Black Hermit, please pray for this forum, and roscoe.
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Well, assuming that Matthew reads his own forum, which clearly he does, Roscoe just did that.
And since you can't criticize Matthew or this forum, roscoe also just violated forum rules.
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St. Augustine the Berber, St. Monica the Berber, St. Perpetua the Carthaginian, Moses the Black Hermit, please pray for this forum, and roscoe.
How do you know those saints aren't "VictiCrats"?
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St. Augustine the Berber, St. Monica the Berber, St. Perpetua the Carthaginian, Moses the Black Hermit, please pray for this forum, and roscoe.
And St, Benedict the Moor.
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Well, assuming that Matthew reads his own forum, which clearly he does, Roscoe just did that.
And since you can't criticize Matthew or this forum, roscoe also just violated forum rules.
Actually, the forum rules say you a re free to disagree with the moderator.
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Well, assuming that Matthew reads his own forum, which clearly he does, Roscoe just did that.
And since you can't criticize Matthew or this forum, roscoe also just violated forum rules.
Actually, the forum rules say you a re free to disagree with the moderator.
That's not the same thing as criticizing Matthew as a person or his forum itself.
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:confused1:
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St. Augustine the Berber, St. Monica the Berber, St. Perpetua the Carthaginian, Moses the Black Hermit, please pray for this forum, and roscoe.
How do you know those saints aren't "VictiCrats"?
Because they are Saints
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Well, assuming that Matthew reads his own forum, which clearly he does, Roscoe just did that.
And since you can't criticize Matthew or this forum, roscoe also just violated forum rules.
Actually, the forum rules say you a re free to disagree with the moderator.
That's not the same thing as criticizing Matthew as a person or his forum itself.
Sure, but I didn't see anything that said that in the rules either. Perhaps I didn't look hard enough.
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St. Augustine the Berber, St. Monica the Berber, St. Perpetua the Carthaginian, Moses the Black Hermit, please pray for this forum, and roscoe.
How do you know those saints aren't "VictiCrats"?
Because they are Saints
I wonder if you would recognize them as such prior to beatification and cannonization.... or would you say they were just lazy victicrats
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Do U have any evidence that I have referred to them as Victicrats?
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St. Augustine would have been a half-Berber :dancing:
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Lol , berber
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:surprised:
Wow. I am really bothered by the direction that this has gone.
Advertising is about selling products. Products sell when people identify with them. Since more than half of the U.S. is not white, it makes sense from an advertising perspective to use a not-white person. Just saying.
Currently, I live in lily-white rural Pennsylvania. I went to highschool in two different states--one with a majority of blacks, another with a majority of Hispanics, particularly Mexicans. I lived in a state where a large portion of its residents were Laotian and Vietnamese refugees. Racial diversity, in my personal experience, is primarily due to where one lives in the U.S.
IMO, skin color doesn't seem to be a big issue at all. But what I have found in the U.S. among some ethnic groups in a refusal to assimilate. Instead of learning the language of the country or the customs, these groups remain isolated and have their own little Mexico or little Vietnam right in the middle of where they are.
It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but from a Catholic perspective we are all members of the Kingdom of God. If we have to move from the home of our birth for economic or social reasons, then we should be grateful to the "host" country and we should do everything in our power to assimilate and make that country our own.
We should be identifying with other Catholics, which, IMO, wouldn't be so hard if we still had Mass, universally, in Latin. We might continue to have churches in neighborhoods that were predominantly Mexican or Cuban or Japanese, but other people could certainly go there and not feel out of place.
For what it's worth, people tend to flock to familiarity. If I had grown up in Vietnam, I would certainly be drawn to a neighborhood with other people from Vietnam because it would be familiar. KWIM?
We also have children, especially sons who are coming of age. We have repeatedly reminded them that whoever they choose for a spouse should be a Traditional Catholic or at least willing to convert. We are perfectly aware that our sons or daughters may find themselves marrying a person who is not white. So what? If we are united by our Catholicism, we should be able to adjust to cultural practices as long as they are not in direct opposition to God.
I would much rather go to the Baptism of my Phillipino/Mexican/Irish/German grandbaby than worry about the salvation of my grandbaby whose Mama or Daddy was pagan/Protestant.
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I haven't read this entire thread but my family is fantastic! I have 22 grandchildren. My husband and I are white, my two daughters married Mexican men, and their children are beautiful. One son married a Filipino and they have 8 children, also beautiful grandchildren. Next, a son who married an American Indian, another son who married a Mexican.
Still waiting for the last one to get married.
All my grandchildren are traditionally baptized of which I am most grateful to God for that favor. I honestly will say, that I prayed for my grandchildren before any of my children were married, I prayed for them before they were conceived.
When we have a birthday party, we almost represent the world, and they all seem to be growing up just fine. With the normal problems you have with children as they develop and grow through their different stages of life.
One of my daughters who married the Mexican man, she has four children but now she is going through the process of "foster to adopt" and just passed all the inspections, received her license in the mail, so we are all waiting for our newest family member, I doubt our newcomer will be white. My prayer is the child will be sent to us and handpicked by God.
I think I told this little story before but it seems to fit here. When my children were young we took them on a vacation to Chicago, all 6 of them were outside playing and the neighbor children came to play too. Not knowing each other the neighborhood children started to ask them what their nationality was, (since Chicago is very concerned with nationality). My children were raised in a melting pot in Calif. where nationality was not an issue, so they had no idea what these Chicago little ones were asking about.
So when the neighborhood children asked them, what nationality they were, they all chimmed, we are Catholic. I heard them, and always thought that was so funny.
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I have given the 2 prev posts thumbs down for the simple reason that they perpetuate white guilt. Why is this necessary? Why is this even being brought up? I am not aware of anyone in this Forum who thinks a person of whatever racial composition does not need the Catholic Church. This is just more Victocracy-- Forget about it and go live your life.
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I have given the 2 prev posts thumbs down for the simple reason that they perpetuate white guilt. Why is this necessary? Why is this even being brought up? I am not aware of anyone in this Forum who thinks a person of whatever racial composition does not need the Catholic Church. This is just more Victocracy-- Forget about it and go live your life.
White guilt??? Are you serious? I have lived in places where whites were a minority. I know firsthand how badly they are treated by certain groups of people. I had the police called on me at an amusement park because I DARED to tell a little bully to stop slapping and stomping on my 5 year-old son.
Don't you tell me for one minute that my previous post was filled with white guilt. You are idiotic.
Some of the comments here by some people, however, have bordered on prejudice.
I addressed my comments purely to point out that advertising in the U.S., where we have many different races of people, is much different from advertising in South Korea where everyone looks the same. It isn't personal, it's marketing.
I also pointed out that, in the U.S., we are facing something unique to our times. A majority of people immigrating to this country are no longer Irish, Polish, German, or Russian, as was the case in the past. Immigrants now are Cuban, Japanese, Vietnamese, Mexican, Jamaican, etc. We should be more concerned about the state of people's souls than the color of their skin. That is all I am saying.
Get over yourself Roscoe, or go back to your :smoke-pot: .
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Yeah! roscoe, thanks for nothing. :boxer:
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Apparently it has to be said again. U guys are missing the point-- why even bring up the racial stuff?
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:surprised:
Wow. I am really bothered by the direction that this has gone.
Advertising is about selling products. Products sell when people identify with them. Since more than half of the U.S. is not white, it makes sense from an advertising perspective to use a not-white person. Just saying.
Currently, I live in lily-white rural Pennsylvania. I went to highschool in two different states--one with a majority of blacks, another with a majority of Hispanics, particularly Mexicans. I lived in a state where a large portion of its residents were Laotian and Vietnamese refugees. Racial diversity, in my personal experience, is primarily due to where one lives in the U.S.
IMO, skin color doesn't seem to be a big issue at all. But what I have found in the U.S. among some ethnic groups in a refusal to assimilate. Instead of learning the language of the country or the customs, these groups remain isolated and have their own little Mexico or little Vietnam right in the middle of where they are.
It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but from a Catholic perspective we are all members of the Kingdom of God. If we have to move from the home of our birth for economic or social reasons, then we should be grateful to the "host" country and we should do everything in our power to assimilate and make that country our own.
We should be identifying with other Catholics, which, IMO, wouldn't be so hard if we still had Mass, universally, in Latin. We might continue to have churches in neighborhoods that were predominantly Mexican or Cuban or Japanese, but other people could certainly go there and not feel out of place.
For what it's worth, people tend to flock to familiarity. If I had grown up in Vietnam, I would certainly be drawn to a neighborhood with other people from Vietnam because it would be familiar. KWIM?
We also have children, especially sons who are coming of age. We have repeatedly reminded them that whoever they choose for a spouse should be a Traditional Catholic or at least willing to convert. We are perfectly aware that our sons or daughters may find themselves marrying a person who is not white. So what? If we are united by our Catholicism, we should be able to adjust to cultural practices as long as they are not in direct opposition to God.
I would much rather go to the Baptism of my Phillipino/Mexican/Irish/German grandbaby than worry about the salvation of my grandbaby whose Mama or Daddy was pagan/Protestant.
My apologies to Cmom of 7 as it was a mistake to giver her post a thumbs down.
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Apparently it has to be said again. U guys are missing the point-- why even bring up the racial stuff?
I'm not sure if you haven't noticed, but the thread is called MULTIRACIAL[/u]. Matthew started the thread. The very first post pertains to race. All of the posts thereafter pertain to race. Are you surprised that race would be brought up on a topic that's explicitly about race?
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No but it seems as if any racial controversy is directed towards moi & I am a little sick of it.
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Tell him its because he's the one who invited himself on here and stirred the pot :really-mad2: dang victicrat!
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No but it seems as if any racial controversy is directed towards moi & I am a little sick of it.
Then stop posting stuff related to race. :rolleyes:
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...
A very sinful, IMO, thing to do to a child.
I wouldn't go so far as to say sinful, though it does cause problems for the child as far as identity goes.
I think it's best to have an identity -- where you came from, your people, your family, etc. or else some one is going to give you a new identity.
...
You can't even replace nationality with the Catholic Faith -- because it's nice to be a certain KIND of Catholic, not just a generic "Catholic". There are lots of different personalities, etc. A choleric Spaniard is going to happier being a Spanish Catholic -- complete with Spanish Catholic saints just like him who overcame their faults, etc. to become saints. It's sort of like a brand name -- what KIND of Catholic. God meant for it to be that way. He didn't create us all the same. He wants us all to serve Him as baptized Catholics, but He very much wants us to do it in a different way.
If God didn't think that way, he wouldn't have created so many different kinds of men and animals.
Even when you had the Holy Roman Empire, and a united Christendom, people still had identity based on their people, and where they were from. It didn't lead to hatreds or anything, but it was still there. Having a national identity in itself isn't a bad thing. It tends to be a bulwark against the designs of the Enemy.
I don't know about over there, but having a mixed heritage (nationality-wise at least) is incredibly common in my experience.
I can't think of many, if any, people who do not have different nationalities in their ancestry.
How many people can you think of who can say of themselves, "Both my parents were English, and both their sets of parents were English.... etc"
What? No Irish?
I know of marriages between English/Australian, English/Austrian, English/French, English/Irish, English/African, English/New Zealand, English/German.
I can't think of many English/English marriages! Except my own, and even I'm not completely English (being partly Irish).
And you'd think an English/Irish marriage would be problematic, given our history. Yet, somehow there are an awful lot of English/Irish marriages.
And I don't see why being a product of two different races should be any more of an identity crisis than being a product of people of two different languages.
God confused our tongues for a reason! And yet, we marry foreigners all the time. And with the Church's blessing.
I think this illustrates what I'm thinking at this point regarding your opine:
King Edward Longshanks said: (http://www.hark.com/clips/qcsxtpxcmq-if-we-cant-get-them-out-well-breed-them-out)
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No but it seems as if any racial controversy is directed towards moi & I am a little sick of it.
Then stop posting stuff related to race. :rolleyes:
Pls note that I did not begin this topic.
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:surprised:
Wow. I am really bothered by the direction that this has gone.
Advertising is about selling products. Products sell when people identify with them. Since more than half of the U.S. is not white, it makes sense from an advertising perspective to use a not-white person. Just saying.
Currently, I live in lily-white rural Pennsylvania. I went to highschool in two different states--one with a majority of blacks, another with a majority of Hispanics, particularly Mexicans. I lived in a state where a large portion of its residents were Laotian and Vietnamese refugees. Racial diversity, in my personal experience, is primarily due to where one lives in the U.S.
IMO, skin color doesn't seem to be a big issue at all. But what I have found in the U.S. among some ethnic groups in a refusal to assimilate. Instead of learning the language of the country or the customs, these groups remain isolated and have their own little Mexico or little Vietnam right in the middle of where they are.
It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but from a Catholic perspective we are all members of the Kingdom of God. If we have to move from the home of our birth for economic or social reasons, then we should be grateful to the "host" country and we should do everything in our power to assimilate and make that country our own.
We should be identifying with other Catholics, which, IMO, wouldn't be so hard if we still had Mass, universally, in Latin. We might continue to have churches in neighborhoods that were predominantly Mexican or Cuban or Japanese, but other people could certainly go there and not feel out of place.
For what it's worth, people tend to flock to familiarity. If I had grown up in Vietnam, I would certainly be drawn to a neighborhood with other people from Vietnam because it would be familiar. KWIM?
We also have children, especially sons who are coming of age. We have repeatedly reminded them that whoever they choose for a spouse should be a Traditional Catholic or at least willing to convert. We are perfectly aware that our sons or daughters may find themselves marrying a person who is not white. So what? If we are united by our Catholicism, we should be able to adjust to cultural practices as long as they are not in direct opposition to God.
I would much rather go to the Baptism of my Phillipino/Mexican/Irish/German grandbaby than worry about the salvation of my grandbaby whose Mama or Daddy was pagan/Protestant.
My apologies to Cmom of 7 as it was a mistake to giver her post a thumbs down.
Apology accepted.
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I don't know about over there, but having a mixed heritage (nationality-wise at least) is incredibly common in my experience.
I can't think of many, if any, people who do not have different nationalities in their ancestry.
How many people can you think of who can say of themselves, "Both my parents were English, and both their sets of parents were English.... etc"
What? No Irish?
I know of marriages between English/Australian, English/Austrian, English/French, English/Irish, English/African, English/New Zealand, English/German.
I can't think of many English/English marriages! Except my own, and even I'm not completely English (being partly Irish).
And you'd think an English/Irish marriage would be problematic, given our history. Yet, somehow there are an awful lot of English/Irish marriages.
And I don't see why being a product of two different races should be any more of an identity crisis than being a product of people of two different languages.
God confused our tongues for a reason! And yet, we marry foreigners all the time. And with the Church's blessing.
I think this illustrates what I'm thinking at this point regarding your opine:
King Edward Longshanks said: (http://www.hark.com/clips/qcsxtpxcmq-if-we-cant-get-them-out-well-breed-them-out)
The genetic make-up of one's descendents (ie one's own flesh and blood, created in God's image) really shouldn't bother people so much, unless they make an idol of race or nationality.
For some reason, the Church does not forbid marriage between foreigners.
What is the problem with having half-foreign children? Their parents are probably partly foreign too!
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People don't like to admit it, but the fact is that things such as personality traits and habits are indeed genetically transmitted to offspring via genetics. The scientific research is there to back it up. How many orphan children have you met who have have grown up with no exposure to their parents and it is said of them that "they are just like their father/mother"? This doesn't meant that there is no free will involved here. What it means is that genetics is among the factors that influence a person in their behavior such as their social environment, religion, etc. .
The various nationalities have their various behavioral tendencies. No one can say that there is not something about an ethnic group that they don't like/can't stand, anymore than they can say so in relation to their taste in food. This is important when choosing a spouse, because you can bet that your children will develop/inherit the good and bad tendencies your spouse has. Actually this principle applies to families more than what it does nationalities (the later being an extension of the former). But if you are trying to avoid a behavioral trait taking root in your family, let's say (serious) greed for example, you are going to avoid groups of people who tend to be misers in your search for a spouse in the same way that you would avoid a particular family reputed for such.
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People also don't like to admit there is bias amongst some groups as well. As I'd pointed out the American/English view against all things Spanish. I think you'll also find definite bias/ racism against blacks in the states, that doesn't exist in the same way in Europe. Think of the 'ghetto' that a black child is raised in here in LA. Now, this child may be born with both of his good and bad traits, but when it comes down to it, his enviornment of drugs, sex, abusive elders, gangs, rape, etc will, unfortunately most of the time, get the best of him. That has nothing to do w/ genetics, but enviornment.
Don't get me wrong, there are people of all race's who have bad traits. And you also have to think of the socio-economic influence placed upon different people.
As I've said before, I myself am Mexican/ Lebanese. That means I get angry quickly (Lebanese), am louder than anyone I work with when I talk (Lebanese), am entrepreneurial(Lebanese), work hard physically (Mexican), and love and family and close friends (Mexican). I attribute these traits to my parents, and the racial/ethnic traits they've passed down to me. But if I were to have grown up without good parents, and in an environment as described above, I fear what the outcome may have been. Its another reason to meditate on the mystery of grace which God in His goodness has decided I be given. :soapbox:
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People also don't like to admit there is bias amongst some groups as well. As I'd pointed out the American/English view against all things Spanish. I think you'll also find definite bias/ racism against blacks in the states, that doesn't exist in the same way in Europe. Think of the 'ghetto' that a black child is raised in here in LA. Now, this child may be born with both of his good and bad traits, but when it comes down to it, his enviornment of drugs, sex, abusive elders, gangs, rape, etc will, unfortunately most of the time, get the best of him. That has nothing to do w/ genetics, but enviornment.
Don't get me wrong, there are people of all race's who have bad traits. And you also have to think of the socio-economic influence placed upon different people.
As I've said before, I myself am Mexican/ Lebanese. That means I get angry quickly (Lebanese), am louder than anyone I work with when I talk (Lebanese), am entrepreneurial(Lebanese), work hard physically (Mexican), and love and family and close friends (Mexican). I attribute these traits to my parents, and the racial/ethnic traits they've passed down to me. But if I were to have grown up without good parents, and in an environment as described above, I fear what the outcome may have been. Its another reason to meditate on the mystery of grace which God in His goodness has decided I be given. :soapbox:
Indeed. I don't think we disagree at all. I'm just saying that among those influences genetics do play some role more or less because they are present in all of us. It's just ONE of the elements of a system that helps perpetuate a cultural cycle. Think of it like a DVD disc that is subjected to editing with each production/generation, but can be left the original data intact without alteration according to the discretion of the handler, and then passed on.
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I have No Idea what is meant by the victicrat expression....." the American /English view against all things Spanish". BTW-- there is No Such thing as 'racism' and a person has a Right to be 'biased' against anyone he wants. More liberal Victocracy from s2.
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IOW-- for example: I am an American of English heritage and I have nothing but admiration for all things Spanish.
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Indeed. I don't think we disagree at all. I'm just saying that among those influences genetics do play some role more or less because they are present in all of us. It's just ONE of the elements of a system that helps perpetuate a cultural cycle. Think of it like a DVD disc that is subjected to editing with each production/generation, but can be left the original data intact without alteration according to the discretion of the handler, and then passed on.
No sir, we are not in disagreement. I just posted that so that the infamous troll here on Cathinfo wouldn't let it slip his thoughts... Its curious... even though I was supposed to be on ignore, I was apparently successful. :dancing-banana:
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The past two posts are excellent. S2srea, I didn't know you were half Lebanese -- now I like you even more !
I agree that one's personality is profoundly affected by his ethnicity. I see that played out every day and, having lived in different parts of Louisiane, Haute Louisiane (the far north), Michigan, and Basse Louisiane (the uttermost south), I have observed the many different ethnicities around me and cannot but firmly hold that their temperaments and traits are inherited from the histories and genes of their parents. They are also strongly affected by their surroundings, both socially and geographically, however.
That is the crux of the matter, though. One must work out his salvation with what he has been given; God wants to show forth His glory in people from all nations, which He created through His Providence. As an Acadien Frenchman, I get my jolly personality and love of feasts, my family, patriarchy, hunting and nature, and my stubbornness and hatred for compromise from my father. But he married a Finnish, Scandinavian, Slavic woman, my mother, to which I accredit my melancholic, contemplative side and a tendency to sometimes be hard and fatalistic. To the extent that this affects the way my imagination works, the way I interact with others, my memory, my intellect, the strength of my will, how beholden I consider myself to the past and to my heritage, and my work habits, it will colour and typify the way I approach Our Lord and my battle with my old man. Nobody but my brothers will have an experience that will be of the exact same sub-species. Now, in all of these ways, I will differ from a Greek, an Italian, a Pole, a Vietnamese, an Arab, or a sub-Saharan African. But imagine if I were born on a different continent and was cut off from the stream of European and North American history. I would be a very different man and yet still substantially the same man, because the core of my personality would have developed differently. But I would have the same core.
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By "past two posts" I meant the longer one of s2srea and CS's response.
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Very well stated Monsieur PereJoseph :applause:
Sedetrad- care to expand?
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People also don't like to admit there is bias amongst some groups as well. As I'd pointed out the American/English view against all things Spanish. I think you'll also find definite bias/ racism against blacks in the states, that doesn't exist in the same way in Europe.
Is this not simply the inherent difficulty of humans to appreciate each others differences? We're natually overly-critical of people who perform poorly in areas in which we excell and also undervalue other's abilites in things we find to be difficult.
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People also don't like to admit there is bias amongst some groups as well. As I'd pointed out the American/English view against all things Spanish. I think you'll also find definite bias/ racism against blacks in the states, that doesn't exist in the same way in Europe.
Is this not simply the inherent difficulty of humans to appreciate each others differences? We're natually overly-critical of people who perform poorly in areas in which we excell and also undervalue other's abilites in things we find to be difficult.
Careful lest you're called a victicrat :cool:
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People also don't like to admit there is bias amongst some groups as well. As I'd pointed out the American/English view against all things Spanish. I think you'll also find definite bias/ racism against blacks in the states, that doesn't exist in the same way in Europe.
Is this not simply the inherent difficulty of humans to appreciate each others differences? We're natually overly-critical of people who perform poorly in areas in which we excell and also undervalue other's abilites in things we find to be difficult.
Careful lest you're called a victicrat :cool:
Your examples then really go both ways. In theory, it's just as true that the Spanish would have a "bias" for the American/English.
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Sorry MD, but the bias of Catholic Spain and her colonialists (in that time) would be quite different that how protestant England and her own viewed and hated anything Spanish or Catholic...
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Sorry MD, but the bias of Catholic Spain and her colonialists (in that time) would be quite different that how protestant England and her own viewed and hated anything Spanish or Catholic...
Is religion what you were referring to? I agree that a non-Catholic culture's hatred of Catholic things is totally different. But, I didn't get the impression that was what you were referring to (why did you throw America in there?). Sorry.
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Is religion what you were referring to? I agree that a non-Catholic culture's hatred of Catholic things is totally different. But, I didn't get the impression that was what you were referring to (why did you throw America in there?). Sorry.
Sorry MD- I know I can be a little ambiguous when speaking. I believe that the subjects are intertwined. The social and religious percecution of all things Spanish by many English speaking people (hence the America) is prevalent wherever you look. Some will try to disagree; but its true. Again, I think the book by Blood-Drenched Altars Francis Clement Kelley clearly shows this to be the case. But of course, some of our English speaking brothers (or trolls) will still deny this, even if they pretend to have read this.
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Thats right MD-- he said nothing about Prots at first and now is trying to slide out of it. s2 is a classic victicrat.
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Is religion what you were referring to? I agree that a non-Catholic culture's hatred of Catholic things is totally different. But, I didn't get the impression that was what you were referring to (why did you throw America in there?). Sorry.
Sorry MD- I know I can be a little ambiguous when speaking. I believe that the subjects are intertwined. The social and religious percecution of all things Spanish by many English speaking people (hence the America) is prevalent wherever you look. Some will try to disagree; but its true. Again, I think the book by Blood-Drenched Altars Francis Clement Kelley clearly shows this to be the case. But of course, some of our English speaking brothers (or trolls) will still deny this, even if they pretend to have read this.
The religious & social aspects don't seem to me to be as intertwined as you see. I live in a very German-Catholic & Mexican area. There's a good dose of German-Lutheran here as well as other Europeans, but the area historically is very Catholic from two very different cultures. They still segregate. In every small town, you have two Catholic churches (which predate VII, so the Mass was the same). It's only been in the past generation or two that have seriously blurred the cultural lines. It clearly wasn't religion that was fueling the animosity towards one another.
(My Mex-Am Studies professor used to say that if you want an accurate picture of the state of cultural seperation, you have to look at where people spend their Sunday mornings. His example is getting increasingly weaker--especially as people stop going to church--but it was interesting nonetheless.)
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Thats right MD-- he said nothing about Prots at first and now is trying to slide out of it. s2 is a classic victicrat.
I said in a post once that I would never use the ignore feature. This post just pushed me over the line. You will be my first.
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The genetic make-up of one's descendents (ie one's own flesh and blood, created in God's image) really shouldn't bother people so much, unless they make an idol of race or nationality.
There's room for reasonable opinions between the extremes of total indifference to race and idolizing it.
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I certainly see points to both sides here. If one is Irish, and 100% Irish, he has that very strong and solid cultural identity. If another, say has Irish and Mexican roots, those are two different cultures with two different languages. However, this is not 12th century England or Spain or France or anywhere where basically everybody married "in the race." And although I do think that those enemies of our Lord and Holy Mother Church would like to weaken true love of culture, I do not think multirace is that big of a deal.
I am Filipino and Mexican. The product of two Catholic cultures, and were it not for the W.A.S.P. Americans coming into the Philippines in 1898, attempting to diminish or even end the influence of Spanish culture (also the influence of the Church), and having success in doing so, as "officially," there is separation of Church and State, along with other "Western" errors, as we can see with those trying to push the R.H. Bill, and probably trying to push divorce as well, so the Philippines can be "civilized."
Had not the WASPs came to this country, Spanish culture, including language, would dominate.
My father's side was the Mexican, spanish-speaking side, with my mother not speaking Spanish, and her mother not even speaking Spanish, but my Great-Grandmother did in fact speak and even pray in Spanish, due to her era. But due to the change of Philippine culture, on the one hand we have a Hispanic, Catholic Culture, and on the other a US/Western attempt to diminish the formerly Spanish culture. So, today, Filipinos and Latin Americans seem so different even though they shouldn't be, as physical occupation from 1898 to 1945, along with essentially being an American puppet state and dominance of US-Anglo culture have changed the culture so much. Almost all Filipinos do not speak Spanish anymore (if they do its because of high school or college classes), and the culture like I said seems so much more different than other Latino ones, especially due to secular and WASP US influence.
All in all, this creates the problem some have mentioned in the thread. All of my paternal relatives whose parents are both Latino speak excellent Spanish fluently and are culturally different a lil bit from me. The same goes for Latino friends. Most filipino family and friends are "more filipino" than me, some speaking way better Tagolog than I can. And there is a small, "you're not really Mexicans" amongst the Mexicans, and vice versa with the filipinos. The Filipinos think I am a Mexican, and some are surprised when I speak tagalog to them. Some Mexicans automatically assume I am just filipino, and express equal surprise when speaking Spanish. So, as some in the thread note, this multi-race can cause some to "not fully fit in." I think that my Mexican side says "he's the Filipino" while the Filipinos say "he's the Mexican" (or Castilla as they like to say :wink:)
But, I am just myself, a Mexican and Filipino and most importantly Catholic young man.
The faith has really made the different race and culture thing easier. It would probably be very difficult if a Traditional Catholic of any extraction married a Black protestant from the South, or a schismatic Russian, or an Indian hindu, or a Chinese buddhist or a mohammedan. In these situations, I do see the wisdom in Holy Mother Church against mixed marriages.
However, were it not for United Statian influence on the PI, I would be with the background, of say a Mexican and a Salvadorean, some cultural differences, without the very important language difference. However, I do think the true Faith, our Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith, can unite people of all cultures in marriage.
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Why are U making this into something racial? Why do U conceive of this as white or what U refer to as anglo & saxon. What has happened is that the Phillippines and the rest of European( Western) Civilisation has been under attack by a cabal of anti-christian judaix, prots, freemasons, communists etc for a few hundred yrs.
America is masonic nation and therefore is oriental in conception. IOW-- your conception that a 'western' force has destroyed the Phillipines is not really correct. The Phillipinos are the 'Western' people. BTW-- there is another here that does the same thing as U-- he conceives of the destruction of Mexico as somehow 'WASP'.
There has been and obviously still is a vast misconception of what is meant by a European 'white' person-- Nordic or Latin. Historically the strictly racial differences between the two types has been greatly exaggerated. The differences are more what might be referred to as ethnic or cultural. Most do not comprende that the English were know as such b4 whatever person known as a Norman or what were misnamed anglos even show up on the island.
The Italian, Spanish, Portugese and the later Fr, German etc missionaries that brought Christianity to the world were all white Roman Catholics. The judaix & prots don't begin showing up in the New World for at least another 100 yrs. I say Italians because although they dont show up in any significant numbers until much later, w/o their Naval skill, it might have been hundreds more yrs b4 New Word exploration even began.
America, both N & S does get its name from one of these Italian Catholic 'white' men-- Vespucci.
In conclusion: the 'white' people from Spain who brought Christianity( the West) to the Phillipines were in most cases just as 'white' as the 'anglos' whom U conceive of as bringing the destruction.
Despite this misconception thank U for bringing up the unifying force of The Church. There are people here who obviously have not comprehended that and are far to sensitive to the 'color of their skin'. We refer to them here as Victicrats or The Victocracy but never as "Victimists".
U may want to try and listen to http://www.larryelder.com when he talks about race issues-- which is a lot now days.
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Why are U making this into something racial? Why do U conceive of this as white or what U refer to as anglo & saxon. What has happened is that the Phillippines and the rest of European( Western) Civilisation has been under attack by a cabal of anti-christian judaix, prots, freemasons, communists etc for a few hundred yrs.
Roscoe, I agree with you here (unlike the "Siri thesis" :detective:). I am not angry at "white" people for what has happened to the Philippines. As a matter of fact, my Mexican grandparents and father are "white;" their skin is whiter than mine. My maternal grandfather was 100% white, a pure German.
America is masonic nation and therefore is oriental in conception. IOW-- your conception that a 'western' force has destroyed the Phillipines is not really correct. The Phillipinos are the 'Western' people. BTW-- there is another here that does the same thing as U-- he conceives of the destruction of Mexico as somehow 'WASP'.
It is WASP, Roscoe. White Anglo Saxon Prots, those who run the show in the US, did these things to the US and Mexico. Irish, English, or German white Catholics did not do this, but White Anglo Saxon Prots, basically every president except J.F.K.
There has been and obviously still is a vast misconception of what is meant by a European 'white' person-- Nordic or Latin. Historically the strictly racial differences between the two types has been greatly exaggerated. The differences are more what might be referred to as ethnic or cultural. Most do not comprende that the English were know as such b4 whatever person known as a Norman or what were misnamed anglos even show up on the island.
The Italian, Spanish, Portugese and the later Fr, German etc missionaries that brought Christianity to the world were all white Roman Catholics. The judaix & prots don't begin showing up in the New World for at least another 100 yrs. I say Italians because although they dont show up in any significant numbers until much later, w/o their Naval skill, it might have been hundreds more yrs b4 New Word exploration even began.
America, both N & S does get its name from one of these Italian Catholic 'white' men-- Vespucci.
Yes, they were (and are) good Catholic white men. Not anti-Catholic, from whatever country with whatever skin color.
In conclusion: the 'white' people from Spain who brought Christianity( the West) to the Phillipines were in most cases just as 'white' as the 'anglos' whom U conceive of as bringing the destruction.
I realize this, and I thank God for the missionaries he sent to the Philippines and to Mexico and for giving my ancestors the Faith. They are just as "white" as the WASPS, but like I said, I am not blaming whites for the destruction, but a group of non-Catholics, anti-Catholics. God Bless any Anglo or White man who shares that One True Faith with me.
Despite this misconception thank U for bringing up the unifying force of The Church.
:cheers:
At the end of the day, this is what is most important.