Author Topic: Muhammad Ali talks about God, Heaven and Hell (Read 1314 times)

Lover of Truth · « **on:** June 16, 2016, 07:34:27 AM »

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEV7yvm2JX.DYA3iknnIlQ;?p=muhammad+ali+touching+speech+about+god&fr2=sb-top-search&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

He talks about getting right with God, about how Heaven and Hell are eternal, and how God does not care about who wins a fight but how his soul is. He gives the idea of the endlessness of Hell buy using Saint Ignatius' one grain of sand every thousand years analogy.

Muhammad Ali talks about how things don't just create themselves so there had to be a creator.

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:15:02 AM »

Please use tiny urls when posting such long urls:

http://tinyurl.com/

By the way, is there a reason we should care what the apostate, Muhammad Ali, thought?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:21:49 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

By the way, is there a reason we should care what the apostate, Muhammad Ali, thought?

He's probably pushing his pet Rewarder God theory again, suggesting that Ali could have been saved.

MMagdala · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:08:29 AM »

I wanted to quote TKGS, of whose post I approve, but the width of the text on both posts 2 and 3 make that difficult. I hope Matthew or someone will fix that. Maybe it's just my screen?

In the meantime, yes: Why should any Catholic care about what an apostate says, an apostate who actually chose to adopt the name of Muhammed? It's bad enough when people affiliate with heretical religions. However, I am particularly offended when people choose for a name an identifier which forces the rest of the world to acknowledge that heresy and that apostasy over and over. (I know a cradle Catholic like that; she wandered into Hinduism for a long time, has reverted to the Catholicism of her birth, but has kept her adopted Hindu name. Why? Why should we have to address her by such a name? I find this very offensive.)

MMagdala · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:09:34 AM »

I see that the width of the screen is still distorted. At least mine is.

TKGS · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:26:58 AM »

Quote from: MMagdala

I see that the width of the screen is still distorted. At least mine is.

It's because of the very, very, very, very long URL on the original post. This is why one should use TinyURL.com whenever one wants to post such a long URL.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:27:07 AM »

Quote from: MMagdala

I see that the width of the screen is still distorted. At least mine is.

It's that way for everyone. There's no line break in LoT's huge URL.

MMagdala · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2016, 10:33:00 AM »

Thank you to both Ladislaus and TKGS for the explanation. I see that now. It has also happened on another forum. I always wondered about the "tiny url" designation. I'm sure I don't know how to convert a long url into a "tiny" one, but thankfully I have never had to do so, nor would I ever burden fellow forum members with such a long "location."

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2016, 11:52:37 AM »

So what would someone named Muhammad do should he ever convert? You're talking about a name that is equivalent to John or Paul or Tom in the West.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2016, 12:19:00 PM »

It would be refreshing to hear someone anyone speak like that on TV these days when it is supposedly only about boxing. And to go on so long about that one topic. The fact that there is a God and a Heaven and Hell. I'm sure it gave some pause to any Atheists in the audience. It took some courage for him to speak like that. Actually listening to the talk is rather interesting.

God took away the things most precious to him before he died, his intelligence, wit and athletic ability.

I don't put him in Hell. I would like to think his slow demise was a purging and a detaching from self-love of a good-willed man rather than a foretaste of Hell. Some claim we can know for sure he is in Hell. But many of traditional clergy who know more than us are are not among those who would insist with absolute certainty on such a claim about his final end. I pray that he was saved even if he has to spend an intense Purgatory until the end of time.

I do not claim it was possible for him to be saved or not but if it was possible I'm pulling for him.

My apologies for this hope in advance. Here let me burn myself in advance. :heretic: Take that you pigheaded maggot!

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2016, 12:20:01 PM »

Who put that incredibly long url up there like than anyway? Yesh!

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2016, 01:25:12 PM »

Correct me if I am wrong. The Muslims do not believe in a material god like the sun, moon or elephant or a Buddhist god which is the innerself. They obviously do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity or in the Holy Trinity. I also believe that they do not believe in God the Father but in God the the Just (but not merciful) Judge. This would be more like a warped belief in the Holy Ghost I guess. It would be an explicit but incomplete and erroneous belief in God. Please give me clarification.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2016, 01:35:20 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Correct me if I am wrong. The Muslims do not believe in a material god like the sun, moon or elephant or a Buddhist god which is the innerself. They obviously do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity or in the Holy Trinity. I also believe that they do not believe in God the Father but in God the the Just (but not merciful) Judge. This would be more like a warped belief in the Holy Ghost I guess. It would be an explicit but incomplete and erroneous belief in God. Please give me clarification.

They sort of believe "Allah" is merciful, I think. A very common ejaculation in Islam is "Bismillah", which in its long form ends with "Allah the most merciful". (Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahmeen)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2016, 01:48:55 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Correct me if I am wrong. The Muslims do not believe in a material god like the sun, moon or elephant or a Buddhist god which is the innerself. They obviously do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity or in the Holy Trinity. I also believe that they do not believe in God the Father but in God the the Just (but not merciful) Judge. This would be more like a warped belief in the Holy Ghost I guess. It would be an explicit but incomplete and erroneous belief in God. Please give me clarification.

They sort of believe "Allah" is merciful, I think. A very common ejaculation in Islam is "Bismillah", which in its long form ends with "Allah the most merciful". (Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahmeen)

Thank you. I did not know that. Also are there variations of Islam? Is the Koran their book like the Bible is ours. If so that would mean there are true Islams who accept everything in the Koran and ignorant Islams who do not know what is in it and Islams that reject part of the Koran which says for instance all should convert or die?

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2016, 02:21:44 PM »

This discussion doesn't really have anything to do with BOD. Cassius Clay was baptised and raised as a Baptist. You can't be saved without explicit faith. Set aside for now whether or not explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and in Jesus Christ (Savior/Messiah) is required. One thing that is absolutely impossible is for someone to be saved who explicitly rejects these beliefs despite having been taught that they are true. So if Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) died believing what he professed for the last 50+ years of his life, he is most certainly damned. Given that we don't have any evidence that he changed his mind when he was nearing death, it is foolishness to speculate that maybe he did repent of his errors and sins. He would have had to have made an act of perfect contrition (very difficult). So while it is not impossible, it is very, very unlikely. Instead of expressing a hope for his salvation (which is very unlikely), maybe the better thing to do is to warn people not to follow his example. Among other things he was a notorious womanizer and a very conceited man. In no way is he a model for Catholics. If you want to hold up non-Catholic celebrities as being possible candidates for last-minute conversion, you would do better with Elvis Presley who was friends with Fr. Bolduc and to my knowledge never expressed anti-Catholicism. In addition he recorded some very nice hymns to Our Lady. But he was a notorious perverted womanizer so unless he repented in his last drugged out moments, he too is damned. The lives of these people should be cautionary tales for the rest of us. Fame and money are not worth going to hell for.