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Author Topic: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge  (Read 14692 times)

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Offline rum

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Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
« Reply #105 on: May 25, 2018, 02:16:11 AM »
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    I tried to read that but to be honest your penchant for not capitalizing the first letter of your sentences reeks of contempt for the reader.
    It says you disrespect the person you are writing to.
    It makes what you write very difficult to make sense since I have no idea whether you are starting a new sentence or not.
    So if you want to be read, then clean up your act.
    Or deal with writing and posting for nothing, because it won't be read by anyone.
    You're quite the piece of work.

    Does that link work?

    I'll take your lack of reply to that post on Kaysing as a vulnerability and not a strength. Come to think of it, no one else has responded to it, either. Not looking good for the hoaxing side. I don't buy for a second that you find it unintelligible. It's not immaculate, but far from unreadable.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #106 on: May 25, 2018, 02:31:27 AM »
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  • You're quite the piece of work.

    Does that link work?

    I'll take your lack of reply to that post on Kaysing as a vulnerability and not a strength. Come to think of it, no one else has responded to it, either. Not looking good for the hoaxing side. I don't buy for a second that you find it unintelligible. It's not immaculate, but far from unreadable.
    .
    Read what I wrote. It is intelligible. Unlike your ramblings (q.v. -- lack of responses ought to tell you something!). If you don't like that, then tough. Go suck eggs.
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    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #107 on: May 25, 2018, 02:46:59 AM »
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  • .
    Read what I wrote. It is intelligible. Unlike your ramblings (q.v. -- lack of responses ought to tell you something!). If you don't like that, then tough. Go suck eggs.
    Only a pharisee would criticize the packaging to spite the content. You're another fraud, along with Kaysing and Sibrel.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #108 on: May 25, 2018, 01:49:48 PM »
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    I tried to read that but to be honest your penchant for not capitalizing the first letter of your sentences reeks of contempt for the reader.
    It says you disrespect the person you are writing to.
    It makes what you write very difficult to make sense since I have no idea whether you are starting a new sentence or not.
    So if you want to be read, then clean up your act.
    Or deal with writing and posting for nothing, because it won't be read by anyone.

    Here's a cleaned-up version of my prior post, which was in response to the Sibrel interview with Kaysing that you asked me to watch. Have you seen the interview? Did you assume I wouldn't watch it and respond point by point to Kaysing's claims? I don't buy that the reason you avoided responding was due to the post being a bit messy. If you didn't have malicious intentions you would have shot me a friendly PM asking me to clean it up. I'd like you to respond to my points with some depth.


    Quote
    I watched the entire video, and I also read Baron testimony transcript. These are notes I took on just about everything he talks about.

    Just to start off I'll list what I agree is suspicious:

    --Baron's report being lost and the circuмstances of his death, e.g. car stalling at a railroad crossing, Kaysing claiming no autopsy was performed, which was against Florida law at the time).
    --The FBI taking Grissom's papers from his home after his death, and never returning them.
    --Not taking a telescope along.
    --Unclassified Apollo records not available to the public.

    Kaysing got the idea to write about the moon landings being fake from a homeless Vietnam vet (as a joke). He then, while still assuming the moon landings really happened, got a contract to write the book by the Jєωιѕн publishing house Price, Stern & Sloan (which specialized in joke books). So it seems he originally intended to write the book as a joke. Kind of a strange genesis, don't you think? I see from looking at his publishing output that he was part of the back-to-land movement in the early 70s.

    --The set of the interview is ridiculous with the crackling fireplace, romcom lighting, cheese platter and wine for the guy to munch on.

    --Baron's death is suspicious, though I read that there was a witness to his death and so foul play was ruled out. Kaysing suspects Baron was murdered, though suspicion doesn't equal fact. Baron also stated in another video I watched that he had been harassed at him home by NASA because of his work. Why didn't they also kill General Sam Phillips, who Kaysing says corroborated much of what was in Baron's report? Also Phillips was in total command of the Apollo project. It's odd that he and his wife weren't autopsied, which was against Florida law at the time. Kaysing doesn't mention the stepdaughter that was killed. Was she autopsied?

    --Baron's report going missing is suspicious.

    --Not taking a telescope along is suspicious, and plays into the idea that the landing was filmed in a studio. Kaysing says that astronomers would have been able to immediately detect foul play if the conspirators had attempted to fake the stars. That's probably an arguable point. If NASA had astronomers in on the conspiracy they might have been able to cook up something which would fool other astronomers.

    --The account about his contact with James Irwin can't be confirmed. We just have to take his word for it.

    --The account of the pilot seeing a capsule dropped out of the cargo hold of an airplane isn't confirmed. This would be a gigantic news story. Why didn't the pilot inform his airline or other people in authority. Even tell someone anonymously, giving the coordinates at which the capsule was dropped and other details. The pilot doesn't reveal his name or the airline he worked for, for fear that he'd be fired? Sounds fishy. I'm supposed to believe the pilot kept this a secret for years or decades and decided to call into a radio show one day? Kaysing should tell us what radio show and the date of the radio interview.

    --As for the capsule not creating steam from the impact with hitting the ocean, Kaysing says that none of the pictures taken of the landings show steam. Are there any pictures taken of any of the NASA capsules at the landing? It's my understanding that the specific landing locations couldn't be predicted. Ships and planes could only be in the general area of the capsule landings, therefore no pictures or video could be taken of impact.

    --Kaysing mentions that he was doing an interview with KOME radio station in San Jose, California on December 7, 1975. The interview with shock jock Victor Boc went off the air due to someone in a helicopter dropping napalm on the radio station's transmitter. You'd think this would be noteworthy enough to include on KOME's Wikipedia page. It may indeed have happened, I'm just surprised I can't find information on it through a quick search. Kaysing claims that this attack was due to someone not wanting him to tell his story. Earlier he said he did hundreds of interviews promoting the book when it was published. I doubt someone would bother to silence a guy who had already told so many people that the moon landings didn't happen. It's never, ever been dangerous to talk about the moon landings being a hoax. At worst most people will view you as a harmless crank. Maybe even a lovable crank who's fun to hang out with at the bar and swap tall tales.

    --Apollo records not classified and yet not available to the public is suspicious.

    --Any proof that this "Hindman" even exists, and was a "direct employee" of Neil Armstrong? Kaysing says that "Hindman" was "claiming to be from the manned space center in Houston". What, he never confirmed this?

    --The people here are doubtful that the Tetra was used to fake observers into thinking the Apollo spacecraft went to the moon. I don't understand this technical stuff, but the people at the link sound like they know what they're talking about and they dispute the claim.

    --I can't find any information on the animation expert "George Powell". He says that Powell worked on the movie "Voyage to the Moon". Is he talking about the Melies silent film?

    --The "rocket scientist" Bill Wood seems like a fishy guy from the video I saw:



    He makes a stupid mistake at one point in the video stating that Explorer 1 discovered the Van Allen Belts, when he knows Explorer 1 was sent as a result of the belts being discovered in 1958. He looks and sounds like a dumb, low-quality person. Kaysing puffs him up by making him sound like a super-genius. I researched this guy a bit more and found others who share my perception of him.

    --I couldn't find any information on Van Muellin. I spelled it a number of ways with "astronomer" and "Leiden university" but couldn't find anything about him. Kaysing says that this man "claims" Stanley Kubrick was hired to script Apollo missions 11, 12 and 13. Lots of claims. He keeps referring to Kubrick as "Stan", as if they're buddies or something, and telling us how Kubrick thinks.

    --He makes the tired claim that the "public lost interest" in moon landings after Apollo 11 and that NASA was going to have to buy time for the networks to cover the landings. It's not likely that the public lost interest, but that the Jєω TV networks decided for the American people what they would be interested in. This has never made sense to me. I hear it all the time. He says, "once you've seen something you don't want to see it again". Ridiculous. I saw a beach once and never wanted to see it again.

    --He talks about his libel suit against Lovell for calling him "wacky", but leaves out the part where the case was thrown out of court.

    The moon landing may indeed be a hoax, but you'd think there'd be higher-quality evangelizers than Kaysing and Sibrel, who both give off a huckster vibe. They don't help me to give the hoax theory the benefit of the doubt. They're smart enough to figure out the moon landing was a hoax, but are suddenly dumb about Jєωs?
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #109 on: May 25, 2018, 02:03:05 PM »
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  • Even if I knew the moon landings were a hoax I wouldn't find that huckster funny. I almost think you're pretending to find him funny.
    .
    It would be more comprehensible if you would be honest and say you don't find him funny because he doesn't debunk the h0Ɩ0h0αx in any of his ridicule ditties.
    .
    You could make it much more clear by providing a few sample lines from what you would like to see:
    .
    There ain't no way to go back in time
    And see for sure what happened
    But we can check the soil samples
    At Dachau and Baden-Baden
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #110 on: May 25, 2018, 02:52:09 PM »
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  • No, I still wouldn't find Conspiracy Music Guru funny. As I've said before I don't have an emotional vested interest in the moon landings having happened or not. Wherever the truth rests is fine with me.

    That you asked me to watch the Kaysing video suggests that you find the guy impressive. He's not impressive at all, as my post clearly demonstrates. He's a huckster, and not even a very clever one.
    Although humor is an individual thing, truth is always at the core of what's funny.  Humor is always at the expense of someone or something and it often depends on whether you share the appreciation for who is getting poked.  I find it way-funny that Hillary didn't get the vote.  Not that I cared if Trump was the winner, but to me, Hillary getting sacked was poetic justice hilarity.  Music Guru is funny because everything he says is based in truth at the expense of those who think science is everything.  So if you don't think his stuff is funny, you probably voted for Hillary.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #111 on: May 26, 2018, 12:38:47 PM »
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  • Come to think of it, no one else has responded to it, either. Not looking good for the hoaxing side.

    Nonsense, no one else responded to your post because it was so long and, in my mind, tangential to this issue.  Even if you want to discredit one particular spokesman for moon hoax doesn't men that the position itself is wrong.  I never really heard of the guy before this thread.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #112 on: May 26, 2018, 12:41:17 PM »
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  • As I've said before I don't have an emotional vested interest in the moon landings having happened or not.

    That's not what it looks like from where I sit, as you use lots of non-objective emotionally-charged language.


    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #113 on: May 26, 2018, 01:54:17 PM »
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  • Nonsense, no one else responded to your post because it was so long and, in my mind, tangential to this issue.  Even if you want to discredit one particular spokesman for moon hoax doesn't men that the position itself is wrong.  I never really heard of the guy before this thread.
    Do you think NeilObstat should reply to it? He's the one that asked me to watch it. If you ask someone to watch something and then don't respond to your response don't you find that a bit off?

    True, if someone hasn't watched the video and doesn't know about Kaysing there's no reason for them to give me a response. I assume that there are some people participating on this thread who do know about Kaysing, though maybe not.

    And I never claimed that by discrediting Kaysing I'm discrediting the moon hoax theories. Nice strawman.

    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #114 on: May 26, 2018, 02:06:37 PM »
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  • That's not what it looks like from where I sit, as you use lots of non-objective emotionally-charged language.
    Like what? In relation to the moon landings having happened or not? No I don't. I merely call people who are obvious frauds what they are.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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  • Anyone with a brain, common sense, or training in Science or Statistics would tell you: you throw it out as an aberration.

    Not for this topic!  Quite the contrary!  Anyone with "training in Science or Statistics" should quickly "tell you" that "throw[ing] it out" instead shows readers how little you really learned from "training in [...] Statistics".  That's because it's highly important to understand the relationship between statistical samples, the (real-world-by-definition) populations from which they're taken, and the statistical methods that apply to them--and those that do not.


    When you have a single datum which is ridiculously above the norm, and has never been even close to repeated, you cast it out as an anomaly or an aberration.

    What's with your "single datum [...] never been even close to repeated"? 
    The U.S.A. completed flights at least as far as Lunar orbit on at least 8 occasions: Apollo 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17.  Plus (I think) another for testing undocking & rendezvous between the command module and Lunar-excursion module.  Of those identified by number, 6 successfully landed "on the Moon" and were "returned safely to Earth".


    It's a law of experimental science, as well as Statistics, that when you have a far-and-above exception to 99% of the data, it must be considered an aberration to be dismissed.  I didn't come up with this argument, but man is it rock-solid and the most compelling argument why the Moon Landings were a hoax.  The truth of it resonated with me, and burrowed deep into my brain.

    "Rock-solid"?  Really, now?

    Anyone with "training in Science or Statistics" should recognize that the distances travelled during individual flights in the "Space Race" and for subsequent "Moon Landings" are obviously not simple data-points [#] for which it's valid to apply your "law of experimental science, as well as Statistics" whose indiscriminate use you're promoting.


    We have years of history to prove it now--that the so-called moon landings in the early 1970's never happened.

    Fascinating!  Being determined to use historical records not to prove the real occurrence (thus reality) of disputed events, but instead, to prove the nonoccurrence (thus unreality) of those same events!


    You're telling me no other country has managed to go there in almost 50 years?

    Yes, that is what I'm telling you, as confirmed by the intervening "years of history".


    There are a lot of advanced countries that should have the technology to do so [...]. Russia, Japan, China, Europe just for starters.

    You have invoked "years of history", but seem completely unaware of what "history" shows as having happened during those "years".  You've completely failed to present any "history" that was relevant to the "Space Race" and "Moon Landings".  Perhaps that apparent ignorance should be expected from someone who wasn't born until roughly a decade after the return of Apollo 17 (Dec. 19, 1972) ended the flights of Project Apollo--prematurely at that.

    Each of the "advanced countries" or regions you listed has made its own decisions on outer space while experiencing changes in political or technical leadership, wrestling with competing or contrary goals of opposition parties or factions, enjoying increased national prosperity or enduring national deprivation, benefitting from technical discoveries or developments, carrying on despite the loss of key people, and sometimes   often  unpredictable changes in national priorities.

    You do understand that for a democratic republic to participate in a "Space Race" or strive for "Moon Landings" ultimately requires the assent of "we the people", don't you?  The representative office-holders in a republic are really keen on continuing to enjoy their perks of power by continuing to be reëlected.  They can only survive whatever is their next election by being attentive to their constituents, and recognizing, i.a., when their support has dwindled to election-jeopardizing levels for any national program that was once too popular to risk opposing, e.g., exploration or colonization of outer space.

    Not even the exalted leader of a 20th-Century communist dictatorship had the autocratic power wielded by the Russian tsar of any earlier century, not even those communist leaders who combined the 2 top offices of premier and general secretary of the Party.  The judgmental attention of high-ranking Party leaders didn't end when they elevated such a man to either top office.  The Party repeatedly demonstrated that altho' they can "giveth great power", they themselves reserve the power to "taketh it away"[†].

    So what does the "history" of the 20th Century tell us about what happened to exploration or colonization of outer space?  Stay tuned to this topic [*].

    -------
    Note #: It's valid for the kind of "experimental science" in which the sampling is, e.g., counts of inanimate objects, measurements of sedated wildlife, or periodic output from sensors (e.g., wind velocity).

    Note †: Nikita Khruschëv, e.g., was fortunate to be the first combined premier and general secretary who was removed from office simply by being involuntarily retired, instead of by being αssαssιnαtҽd.

    Note *: I already have written a 1st draft of my implied future posting.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #116 on: May 27, 2018, 06:41:31 PM »
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  • How about the interview talking about how NASA "destroyed" the technology to go to the Moon, and now they have to re-discover it? They also put forth "travelling through the Van Allen Belts" as another obstacle they need to overcome. 

    Really?

    How does any science type perform the mental gymnastics necessary to swallow THAT whopper? I mean, give me a break!
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    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #117 on: May 27, 2018, 08:34:18 PM »
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  • How about the interview talking about how NASA "destroyed" the technology to go to the Moon, and now they have to re-discover it? They also put forth "travelling through the Van Allen Belts" as another obstacle they need to overcome.

    Really?

    How does any science type perform the mental gymnastics necessary to swallow THAT whopper? I mean, give me a break!
    To a layman such as myself the explanation here sounds reasonable.


    Quote
    The answer, simply, and which has been explained in detail elsewhere, is that the Apollo astronauts were not in the Van Allen belt for long enough to have to deal with dangerous levels of exposure to radiation.

    The Apollo astronauts did return to Earth having been exposed to significant radiation - but not more than is allowed by US law for workers at nuclear power stations, for instance.

    So what's different with Orion EFT-1? Put simply, two things: equipment and time.

    First, Orion contains much more complex and complicated electronic equipment than the Apollo systems, which could potentially be damaged by radiation and so has to be tested before humans are allowed to fly inside it.

    Second, Orion isn't just intended to go through the Van Allen belt and back in a few short days. It's designed for missions up to 21 days long, and perhaps even longer if it forms part of a mission to Mars. As a result it would face exposure to vast amounts of radiation in space, for months on end, and so testing its shields and how much radiation gets through is prooobably a good idea.

    So no, NASA did not accidentally leak that the Apollo missions were fake in its own promotional videos.
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #118 on: May 27, 2018, 09:47:53 PM »
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  • Never let a simple alternative explanation get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

    If you don't believe any so-called "conspiracy theories", then why the ____ are you on CathInfo to begin with?

    Like a moth to a flame, eh?

    Or more likely you are a troll that is just here to start trouble and be contrary for lulz?

    Don't tell me you're here for Traditional Catholic news, because virtually all your posts are on the topic of science of some sort. I'm really wondering if you belong here on a "Traditional Catholic" forum at all. If I deleted all your posts about Flat Earth or the Moon Landing, you would literally have 6 posts left in your posting history -- but those posts would all be almost 2 years old!

    For all we know, based on your posting history, you apostatized 1.5 years ago. Since June 2016, you haven't said a single thing on CathInfo specifically Catholic, or anything that your average atheist or agnostic professor wouldn't say to a group of Traditional Catholics whom they considered to be "nut jobs".
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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #119 on: May 27, 2018, 11:50:41 PM »
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  • If you don't believe any so-called "conspiracy theories", then why the ____ are you on CathInfo to begin with?

    Like a moth to a flame, eh?

    Or more likely you are a troll that is just here to start trouble and be contrary for lulz?

    Don't tell me you're here for Traditional Catholic news, because virtually all your posts are on the topic of science of some sort. I'm really wondering if you belong here on a "Traditional Catholic" forum at all. If I deleted all your posts about Flat Earth or the Moon Landing, you would literally have 6 posts left in your posting history -- but those posts would all be almost 2 years old!

    For all we know, based on your posting history, you apostatized 1.5 years ago. Since June 2016, you haven't said a single thing on CathInfo specifically Catholic, or anything that your average atheist or agnostic professor wouldn't say to a group of Traditional Catholics whom they considered to be "nut jobs".
    Thanks much Matthew for trying so hard to keep things in proper check.   It's certainly no easy job and perhaps not nearly as appreciated as it should be.  It's great that you can pick up on certain patterns that fly under the radar for many of us.  P.S.  Sorry for my 2 somewhat off topic and silly WalMart posts today.