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Author Topic: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge  (Read 23292 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2018, 02:14:03 PM »
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  • After the "statistical aberration" argument, I think the next most powerful argument is the one about air conditioning the space suits/LEM, as well as the batteries that supposedly powered the rover:

    After all this, I still have unanswered questions about the alleged BATTERIES, and the alleged AIR CONDITIONING equipment.
    Lead acid batteries were the only type in use at the time, but how do they work in a VACUUM? They would have to be dry cell batteries or else the electrolyte would boil off without ambient air pressure. So the lunar rover for example would have to be powered with something like a very long stack of nickle-cadmium D cells (that was the rechargeable variety of that time).
    .
    Ask any air conditioning technician or engineer about how it works. You need to have a heat sink or an environment where you can dump the BTUs from the cooled volume. If you want to cool off a LEM or a space suit, you need a cooler place where the heat can be disposed of. On the sunlit surface of the moon the 250-degree environment has no such cool place where the heat can be dumped off. Plus, there is no air or atmosphere on the moon so no evaporator coil would have anything to cool it off, no matter how hot it gets. The only way to dispense with the heat would be by radiation like infrared radiation. It would require a refrigerant to be upwards of 300 degrees so it could lose heat in a 250-degree moon surface. No one has ever explained what refrigerant could be used that operates at 300 degrees F.

    I will personally add:

    I know a bit about solar power and batteries myself. The one thing you almost can't do, without huge banks of lead batteries, is air conditioning. The process of air conditioning simply draws too much power to make off-grid A/C feasible. 

    I've also seen diagrams of the lunar rover -- where were the batteries stowed? Did it operate on magic power?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #61 on: May 18, 2018, 02:18:29 PM »
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  • They claim there were 2 small "silver zinc" batteries on the rover.

    I seriously doubt that would power that vehicle longer than 8 minutes. Have you seen the battery bank in a modern electric car? And the "lunar rovers" were built in the late 60's. They didn't have modern battery technology -- or efficient integrated circuit-based electronics to gently consume that battery power. Everything drew more power back in the 60's and 70's. Every light bulb was a power-sucking incandescent, etc.  All the electronic gear in the diagram would have drawn WAY MORE POWER than the modern equivalent, AND such electronic equipment wouldn't have used a single milliamp less because they were on the moon "where gravity is 1/6 that of Earth".

    They broadcast data with antennae! How many of you noticed how soon your phone battery goes dead when you use a lot of wifi or 3G? That's the biggest power drain on any phone -- even more than the screen.

    You can see in the diagram how small the batteries were. Not must potential for power storage there.
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    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #62 on: May 18, 2018, 03:15:12 PM »
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  • I've already pointed out how the "statistical aberration" argument is complete nonsense, so we've leave that aside until someone addresses that argument and talk about your misunderstandings of how heat transfer works.

    Air conditioning is necessary on earth because the AIR gets hot, and heats us by convection. The moon has almost no air, so a person (or object) on the moon's surface will be heated directly by radiation (direct transfer of energy from the sun's rays). This effect also occurs on earth obviously, but is highly mitigated by the atmosphere which absorbs much of the radiation.

    So on the moon, the most effective form of "cooling" is to wear a reflective suit, so the sun's energy simply bounces off and never heats you up in the first place. Thence the shiny white suits.

    So what's the problem here exactly?

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #63 on: May 18, 2018, 03:31:29 PM »
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  • I've already pointed out how the "statistical aberration" argument is complete nonsense, so we've leave that aside until someone addresses that argument and talk about your misunderstandings of how heat transfer works.

    Air conditioning is necessary on earth because the AIR gets hot, and heats us by convection. The moon has almost no air, so a person (or object) on the moon's surface will be heated directly by radiation (direct transfer of energy from the sun's rays). This effect also occurs on earth obviously, but is highly mitigated by the atmosphere which absorbs much of the radiation.

    So on the moon, the most effective form of "cooling" is to wear a reflective suit, so the sun's energy simply bounces off and never heats you up in the first place. Thence the shiny white suits.

    So what's the problem here exactly?

    The astronauts themselves also generated heat, being warm blooded. They can't "open a window" instead of running the A/C while they run around in their space suits. Having no air for convection is a double edged sword.

    And their suits were not bouncing off 100% the suns rays or heating ability. They didn't look like mirror-men. They were just wearing white. Go out in the Texas mid-day sun sometime in white long pants and a white long sleeve shirt, with a white hat and a white shirt hanging from the hat to block your neck. Sure, you won't get cooked AS MUCH by the sun, but you will still heat up.
    Then move to a well-shaded place like under a carport, and note that it wasn't the air that was warming you -- it was the sun. That's why I prefer working outside in the last hour before dark (when the air barely off the day's high, or around 95) to working in full sun at 10:00 AM when the air is only 79 degrees. It's the radiant heat that proverbially kills you.

    See, as a Texan, I know much more about "hot" than you :)

    P.S. Whatever I noted, above, about radiant heat experienced by a Texan, is even more true on the Moon -- as you pointed out, the Earth has an atmosphere to help mitigate the heating power of the Suns' rays, the Moon does not.
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    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #64 on: May 18, 2018, 03:53:05 PM »
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  • For all you know I'm from sub-saharan africa. And on that topic, there's a reason people in the middle east tend to cover themselves completely despite the intense heat.

    The body heat inside the suit would take a while to become an issue, and it would also be mitigated by the fact that they were probably venting some air out (compressed air from the oxygen tank would need to be vented after they breathed it).

    Either way, the point here is that you are cherry-picking factoids and twisting them to support your already drawn conclusion, rather than look for the easily available explanations for why they aren't actually a problem.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #65 on: May 18, 2018, 04:14:52 PM »
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  • Either way, the point here is that you are cherry-picking factoids and twisting them to support your already drawn conclusion, rather than look for the easily available explanations for why they aren't actually a problem.

    I could say the same about you. Any sane person knows we didn't go to the Moon. I say the burden of proof is on you. It's clearly a fairy tale and a huge psy-op, experienced by our parents, that most of their descendants take on faith and the authority/credibility of our Government.

    But there's certainly no evidence for it! Just a few props in a museum that fall apart under the slightest scrutiny applied to them. On the contrary, there is only evidence that we couldn't have gone to the Moon.

    Anyone dismissing the "we -- and all the other advanced countries, including those who never went -- haven't been back" argument obviously has an emotional investment in the whole package deal that is the Moon landing hoax (hooray for science, let's go to the planets, etc.)
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    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #66 on: May 18, 2018, 04:56:32 PM »
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  • You are the one making an rather extraordinary claim here, namely that every single scientist and engineer involved in an enormous project was either a liar (i.e. "in on it") or simply too stupid to tell the difference. All that to say nothing of every engineer and scientist who has seriously studied the relevant technologies in the 50+ years since (and I imagine there have been a few). But no, the burden of proof is on me. K then...

    And each so called "proof" you have thus far demonstrated was either a non-argument based on bad statistics, or an easily explained bit of heat physics most people learn in high school.

    I am also unsure how you accuse me of cherry-picking factoids when I haven't actually presented any. All I've done is comment on the things others have presented and offer reasonable alternative explanations to "it was all a colossal lie".

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #67 on: May 18, 2018, 05:41:05 PM »
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  • Rivera's mother is of αѕнкenαzι Russian Jєωιѕн descent. He was raised "mostly Jєωιѕн" and had a Bar Mitzvah ceremony.

    Just a side note.  Gerald Rivera (he changed his name to Geraldo) was a super strong mouth piece in pushing the official 9-11 narrative and has vehemently ridiculed those who don't buy it as conspiracy nuts.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #68 on: May 18, 2018, 07:46:42 PM »
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  • Any sane person knows we didn't go to the Moon. I say the burden of proof is on you. It's clearly a fairy tale and a huge psy-op, experienced by our parents, that most of their descendants take on faith and the authority/credibility of our Government.

    THIS ^^^

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #69 on: May 18, 2018, 09:56:21 PM »
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  • For all you know I'm from sub-saharan africa. And on that topic, there's a reason people in the middle east tend to cover themselves completely despite the intense heat.

    The body heat inside the suit would take a while to become an issue, and it would also be mitigated by the fact that they were probably venting some air out (compressed air from the oxygen tank would need to be vented after they breathed it).


    Either way, the point here is that you are cherry-picking factoids and twisting them to support your already drawn conclusion, rather than look for the easily available explanations for why they aren't actually a problem.
    .
    Body heat inside the suit would be a problem before the moon-walkers exited the LEM. The entire LEM would be subject to the oven-like environment of A) being in direct sunlight which is 250 deg. F. on the moon. Plus, B) the moon's surface is heated to the same 250 deg. F. so it's like landing in a pre-heated oven. Cookies can bake at that temperature. Try wrapping cookie dough in aluminum foil in a hot oven and see what they're like after a half hour.
    .
    Compressed oxygen would provide some cooling all right, but how much? The astronauts never said their suits were cooled by oxygen, they said "air conditioning" equipment in their back packs. If the oxygen tank was in the pack, the tank itself would be what cools when liquified gas under 20,000 psi +/- would boil off for breathing, and the back pack itself would be heated by the sun. The amount of cooling that would arrive via the air being breathed would be heated by the hose connecting the space suit to the backpack. It's all pretty vague stuff here. None of the explanations for cooling say anything about cooling the space suit by evaporating liquid oxygen. They say "air conditioning." 
    .
    How would breathing air help to cool your feet or legs for example?
    .
    When Elon Musk or any other private venture tries to go to the moon we're going to become informed a lot better, it seems to me.
    .
    In the videos I linked above, Bill Kaysing said it's not any ONE THING that makes the difference, rather it's the total collection of all the various topics and systems raising red flags that discredits the official story. And notice when NASA spokesmen pretend to answer the questions, they go broad and general, making sweeping statements without answering any individual specific points in particular. They never say what type of batteries were used (Matthew found one "silver zinc" which is usually used for watch batteries) and whatever they were they never made it into commercial production for automotive use. We went directly from lead-acid automotive batteries to lithium-ion, but the latter was not invented until 17 years after Apollo (1980).
    .
    And how would they have charged the batteries, with solar cells? Where are the solar cells on the LEM photographs? They would have had to use an enormous array, which could have served as a sun shade but none of the photos have that. Never mind that solar cells were still in their infancy in the 1960's, very inefficient.
    .
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #70 on: May 18, 2018, 09:59:52 PM »
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  • .
    Body heat inside the suit would be a problem before the moon-walkers exited the LEM. The entire LEM would be subject to the oven-like environment of A) being in direct sunlight which is 250 deg. F. on the moon. Plus, B) the moon's surface is heated to the same 250 deg. F. so it's like landing in a pre-heated oven. Cookies can bake at that temperature. Try wrapping cookie dough in aluminum foil in a hot oven and see what they're like after a half hour.
    .
    Compressed oxygen would provide some cooling all right, but how much? The astronauts never said their suits were cooled by oxygen, they said "air conditioning" equipment in their back packs. If the oxygen tank was in the pack, the tank itself would be what cools when liquified gas under 20,000 psi +/- would boil off for breathing, and the back pack itself would be heated by the sun. The amount of cooling that would arrive via the air being breathed would be heated by the hose connecting the space suit to the backpack. It's all pretty vague stuff here. None of the explanations for cooling say anything about cooling the space suit by evaporating liquid oxygen. They say "air conditioning."
    .
    How would breathing air help to cool your feet or legs for example?
    .
    When Elon Musk or any other private venture tries to go to the moon we're going to become informed a lot better, it seems to me.
    .
    In the videos I linked above, Bill Kaysing said it's not any ONE THING that makes the difference, rather it's the total collection of all the various topics and systems raising red flags that discredits the official story. And notice when NASA spokesmen pretend to answer the questions, they go broad and general, making sweeping statements without answering any individual specific points in particular. They never say what type of batteries were used (Matthew found one "silver zinc" which is usually used for watch batteries) and whatever they were they never made it into commercial production for automotive use. We went directly from lead-acid automotive batteries to lithium-ion, but the latter was not invented until 17 years after Apollo (1980).
    .
    And how would they have charged the batteries, with solar cells? Where are the solar cells on the LEM photographs? They would have had to use an enormous array, which could have served as a sun shade but none of the photos have that. Never mind that solar cells were still in their infancy in the 1960's, very inefficient.
    .



    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #71 on: May 19, 2018, 01:53:37 AM »
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  • .
    Watch the last 5 minutes (says "new" but it's almost a year old) :
    .

    .
    There are government officials who have privately (off the record) congratulated Bart Sibrel for the work he has been doing, but they cannot come out in public for saying that because there are two factions behind the scenes at odds with each other, and have been for a long time "perhaps since the cινιℓ ωαr," and if this we didn't go to the moon were to be made public there would be a national crisis, the stock market would crash, the dollar would crash, foreign countries would lose all confidence in America and we could have a new cινιℓ ωαr on our hands. (Obviously part of the cut-out portion that did not air in England.)
    .
    From the Youtube page:
    .
    Bart Sibrel's entire unedited one hundred minute interview from England's Channel 5's recent [June 2016] national television special on the alleged "moon landings", specifically orchestrated to reassure the public, against the emerging truth to the contrary, that their number one ally, the United States, did not falsify the touted moon landings of the 1960's, even though they cannot be replicated today by anyone with five decades more advanced technology.
    .
    Choosing only to show two minutes of Bart Sibrel's one hundred minute interview to the public, in which he outlined in great detail how and why the missions were indeed falsified by the highly disreputable Nixon administration, for fear these revelations might otherwise convince the public of the truths therein, Channel 5 instead, by deleting 98% of Sibrel's disclosing interview, selectively steered the narrative away from the truth, in order to comply with directives from higher executives to conceal the truth, after which the producers involved resigned in disgruntlement over the censored facts they attempted to present.

    .
    Bart Sibrel has explained elsewhere (not on YouTube channel) that he has to disable comments on these videos in order to protect himself (because he is doing literally very dangerous work here, and gives many anecdotes to substantiate this claim - people like him end up mysteriously dead by "accident" or "heart attack" and their bodies are cremated immediately w/o autopsy) and in order not to have thousands of complaints coming in to YouTube such that his videos would be removed. All it takes is one CIA phone call to YouTube and it's a blank screen for Sibrel.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #72 on: May 19, 2018, 02:17:17 AM »
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  • I'll read up on this issue. What do you think about the suggestion here that the footage that shows what can be interpreted as wires is actually the antennae on their backpacks reflecting?
    .
    What do you think of the Apollo 17 LEM lift-off from the moon?
    .
    You know, the one where astronauts have vociferously defended the camera technique as being the result of advance orders given to the TV camera robot left on the moon to start panning upwards two seconds before the liftoff so that the LEM would still be in the frame, since a robot was left on the moon to operate the camera while the astronauts all went home.
    .
    Oh, BTW, it's the shot that makes Dorothy's house falling on Munchkin land look like it was real. Yeah. That LEM lift-off.
    And BTW, it's the lift-off that shows no plume of rocket engines firing from the module lifting off. And it wiggles like a toy.
    .
    That would be a robot and TV camera that are still there on the moon's surface, of course. Or......... not.
    .
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #73 on: May 19, 2018, 08:39:22 AM »
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  • .
    What do you think of the Apollo 17 LEM lift-off from the moon?
    .
    You know, the one where astronauts have vociferously defended the camera technique as being the result of advance orders given to the TV camera robot left on the moon to start panning upwards two seconds before the liftoff so that the LEM would still be in the frame, since a robot was left on the moon to operate the camera while the astronauts all went home.
    .
    Oh, BTW, it's the shot that makes Dorothy's house falling on Munchkin land look like it was real. Yeah. That LEM lift-off.
    And BTW, it's the lift-off that shows no plume of rocket engines firing from the module lifting off. And it wiggles like a toy.
    .
    That would be a robot and TV camera that are still there on the moon's surface, of course. Or......... not.
    .

    So, Neil, you're admitting that NASA has been caught perpetrating fakery?

    Offline rum

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    Re: Moon Landings - No Hard Science Knowledge
    « Reply #74 on: May 19, 2018, 09:28:57 AM »
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  • There are government officials who have privately (off the record) congratulated Bart Sibrel for the work he has been doing, but they cannot come out in public for saying that because there are two factions behind the scenes at odds with each other, and have been for a long time "perhaps since the cινιℓ ωαr," and if this we didn't go to the moon were to be made public there would be a national crisis, the stock market would crash, the dollar would crash, foreign countries would lose all confidence in America and we could have a new cινιℓ ωαr on our hands. (Obviously part of the cut-out portion that did not air in England.)

    Another scenario is that the powers that pulled off the moon landing hoax would also only allow it to be known as a hoax when they were able to control the fallout. When I found out the h0Ɩ0cαųst didn't happened, it didn't make the Jews less intimidating. It made them more intimidating. Only very powerful people could pull off a lie that big. If other countries realized we didn't land on the moon it would likely make them more intimidated by our government. What resources, boldness and high intelligence such people must have at their disposal to even attempt such lies.

    This quote from Robert Faurisson from the preface to Dissecting the h0Ɩ0cαųst is relevant:

    Quote
    I think that the co-religionists of Mr. Berenbaum will at last abandon the gas chamber as they have abandoned the Jєωιѕн soap and the Auschwitz 4 million. They will go farther than that. As in the two previous cases, they will present themselves as the discoverers of the myth and accuse the Germans, the Poles, or the Communists of having fabricated the ‘myth of the gas chambers’. In support of their impudent thesis, they will then invoke the names of Jews who are Revisionists totally or in part (J.G. Burg, Jean-Gabriel Cohn-Bendit, Roger-Guy Dommergue, Arno Mayer, David Cole, Christopher Hitchens, Joel Hayward ?). They will then assign themselves the starring role.
     
     At the same time, however, transforming the ‘h0Ɩ0cαųst’ of the Jews into a religious belief, this time divested of all material content, they will be only the more inflexible in denouncing authentic Revisionists as ‘deniers’, or ‘negationists’, as being intolerant, heartless, basely materialistic and hostile to the free expression of religious sentiments. For those Jews, the true Revisionists will thus continue to be diabolical in spirit even if they must be acknowledged to be in the right from a factual point of view.

    At some point in time it may be permissible to say that the nαzιs had no plan and made no attempt to liquidate European Jewry, but only after such time as the Jews have managed to "assign themselves the starring role" in uncovering the duplicity.


    Quote
    There are government officials who have privately (off the record) congratulated Bart Sibrel for the work he has been doing, but they cannot come out in public for saying that because there are two factions behind the scenes at odds with each other, and have been for a long time

    Yeah these "government officials" are probably his mailman and garbage collector. I doubt he has connections with important government people.

    Sibrel gives off the whiff of a Jew huckster.

    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.