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Poll

Is 'Bishop' Stickland a modernist?

Yes
19 (61.3%)
No
7 (22.6%)
Other
5 (16.1%)

Total Members Voted: 30

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Author Topic: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?  (Read 4791 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
« on: November 26, 2023, 12:17:23 AM »
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    • In his recent video the dimonds call out 'Bishop' Stickland as a modernist. Despite being considered 'conservative' Stickland still beliefs the heretical garbage taught by vatican 2 and anti-popes JP2 and Ben 16.

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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #1 on: November 26, 2023, 12:53:41 AM »
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    • It depends on if he adheres to the propositions condemned in Pascendi. Nowadays trads will throw the term "modernist" around without taking into account whether the person actually adheres to the tenants of modernism or if the individual is just a liberal. He could be a liberal without being modernist. The prayer lead by +Strickland also isn't necessarily bad itself. It is joining heretics in public prayers lead by them that is a sin against the faith, not leading a prayer where heretics may happen to join in in. The Holy Office under Pius XII permitted meetings where a Catholic says a Catholic prayer and heretics joined in. Furthermore, St. Pius X allowed a Melkite school to tolerate Eastern schismatic students saying the responses during the liturgy in the context of conversion being likely for the schismatics. If anyone wants citations, private message me.
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    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #2 on: November 26, 2023, 10:57:03 AM »
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    • Bishop Strickland is likely on a pilgrimage of grace, but we've yet to see his renunciation of Vatican II and the Novus ordo missae.  Until he comes forth and does this, he can't be a credible critic of newChurch or spokesman for the faithful remnant.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline songbird

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #3 on: November 26, 2023, 04:43:41 PM »
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    • Another one trying to serve 2 masters
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #4 on: November 26, 2023, 05:28:07 PM »
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    • Strickland is just another conservative Novus Ordo prelate. Novus Ordo Religionist.  Modernist. Same difference.  
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #5 on: November 26, 2023, 05:39:19 PM »
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    • I’m not a fan of the Dimond’s, but this video was quite good.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #6 on: November 26, 2023, 06:59:35 PM »
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    • No, he's not a Modernist.  He's got other issues surrounding religious indifferentism and ecuмenism.

    Strickland's entire contention with Bergoglio was that Strickland held the Bergoglio was not being faithful to the Deposit of Revelation, whereas Bergoglio countered by claiming that Catholic doctrine could change (which is essentially what Modernism is).

    People throw around the term Modernism without any real understanding of what it actually means.

    Now, I haven't watched the Dimond video, so I don't know if THEY used the term Modernist, or that was just attributed to them by the OP.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #7 on: November 26, 2023, 07:02:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on November 26, 2023, 12:53:41 AM
    It depends on if he adheres to the propositions condemned in Pascendi. Nowadays trads will throw the term "modernist" around without taking into account whether the person actually adheres to the tenants of modernism or if the individual is just a liberal. He could be a liberal without being modernist.

    THIS ^^^
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #8 on: November 26, 2023, 07:03:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on November 26, 2023, 05:28:07 PM
    Novus Ordo Religionist.  Modernist. Same difference. 

    Absolutely false, as per Cryptinox's post.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #9 on: November 26, 2023, 07:20:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 26, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
    No, he's not a Modernist.  He's got other issues surrounding religious indifferentism and ecuмenism.

    Strickland's entire contention with Bergoglio was that Strickland held the Bergoglio was not being faithful to the Deposit of Revelation, whereas Bergoglio countered by claiming that Catholic doctrine could change (which is essentially what Modernism is).

    People throw around the term Modernism without any real understanding of what it actually means.

    Now, I haven't watched the Dimond video, so I don't know if THEY used the term Modernist, or that was just attributed to them by the OP.
    So...are you saying he's a heretic, just not of the Modernist variety?
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #10 on: November 26, 2023, 07:34:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 26, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
    No, he's not a Modernist.  He's got other issues surrounding religious indifferentism and ecuмenism.

    Strickland's entire contention with Bergoglio was that Strickland held the Bergoglio was not being faithful to the Deposit of Revelation, whereas Bergoglio countered by claiming that Catholic doctrine could change (which is essentially what Modernism is).

    People throw around the term Modernism without any real understanding of what it actually means.

    Now, I haven't watched the Dimond video, so I don't know if THEY used the term Modernist, or that was just attributed to them by the OP.


    Wouldn’t you agree that most NO prelates (especially more conservative ones) are intelligent enough to realize that the Catholic Church taught, for nearly 2 millennia, that religious indifferentism and ecuмenism were contrary to the first commandment?
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #11 on: November 26, 2023, 07:54:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 26, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
    No, he's not a Modernist.  He's got other issues surrounding religious indifferentism and ecuмenism.
    .

    Indifferentism and ecuмenism are part of modernism. Modernism is basically subjectivisim, that the faith comes from within. Thus, it makes no sense to condemn others for having a faith that comes from within them, even if such faith is different from ours. That's indifferentism and ecuмenism.
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    Offline Traveler

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #12 on: November 26, 2023, 08:16:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on November 26, 2023, 07:54:30 PM
    .

    Indifferentism and ecuмenism are part of modernism. Modernism is basically subjectivisim, that the faith comes from within. Thus, it makes no sense to condemn others for having a faith that comes from within them, even if such faith is different from ours. That's indifferentism and ecuмenism.

    This is what I would agree with. Faith, to Modernists, is something that emanates from within. It is subjective to each individual. That is how it can manage to retain the heresies of religious indifferentism while denouncing the more liberal aspects of Bergoglian faith. To the modernists, Faith can evolve and change meaning overtime as Ladislaus pointed out, but how that is interpeted by each modernist can be very different. One modernist could deny the literal meaning of Genesis (Cardinal Pell comes to mind), while another could agree that Adam and Eve did exist. Modernists do not necessarily agree on their heresies among each other. But subjectivism is the hallmark they all share. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #13 on: November 27, 2023, 06:38:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 26, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
    No, he's not a Modernist.  He's got other issues surrounding religious indifferentism and ecuмenism.

    Strickland's entire contention with Bergoglio was that Strickland held the Bergoglio was not being faithful to the Deposit of Revelation, whereas Bergoglio countered by claiming that Catholic doctrine could change (which is essentially what Modernism is).

    People throw around the term Modernism without any real understanding of what it actually means.

    Now, I haven't watched the Dimond video, so I don't know if THEY used the term Modernist, or that was just attributed to them by the OP.
    Yes, the Deposit of Faith per the NO.  So, who are the Modernists in the NO?  Anyone?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: mhfm calls 'Bishop' Stickland out as a modernist - do you agree?
    « Reply #14 on: November 27, 2023, 06:44:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on November 26, 2023, 07:54:30 PM
    Modernism is basically subjectivisim ...

    No.  Modernism is related to subjectivism but is not subjectivism.  Religious indifferentism stems from subjectivism.

    To put it bluntly, all the Trads who claim that non-Catholics can be saved by subjectively following what they consider to be the truth would then be "Modernists" by your definition of the term ... and this includes the vast majority of sedevacantists.
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