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Author Topic: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?  (Read 59821 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
« Reply #390 on: March 21, 2022, 02:43:13 AM »
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  • What started this thread:


    Quote
    Matthew wrote: You must be new here, son. Let me clue you in: roscoe totally owned it (smoking marijuana), admitted to it, and totally defended the smoking of pot by Catholics. There is no "alleged".

    Not just new here, but lazy as well: a casual perusal of roscoe's past posts show a strong promotion/defense of Marijuana use....
    I advertised this particular truth about "roscoe" because it was common knowledge on this forum 10 years ago. The posts are all still there. We even had a "smilie" for pot smoking. You might see some old posts that have text such as *smoke-pot* but it no longer renders into a graphic, because a lot of the old smilies have been removed. And yes, most people will take the philosophical and metaphysical musings of a habitual pot smoker with a grain of salt -- as they should. Do a CathInfo search for "mary juanita" by user "roscoe" and you'll see his long history.
    and

    Quote
    Matthew wrote: I'm not particularly strong on the pot issue, either direction. I've heard all the "pros" and I certainly can't shoot any of them down.


    My only point was: look at the public posting history of "roscoe", who rather controversially promotes this particular herb.

    As the last several posts PROVE, it is still QUITE controversial in Catholic circles, to say the least.

    We had a member on here a year ago post something against a priest. Turns out, the member in question was literally committed to a mental hospital. I think that's pretty relevant information when weighing "could it be true?" or "is that priest to be avoided or not"? Turns out, he later recanted and was relieved when I posted a followup to the thread. He asked for the thread to be taken down, but I couldn't, as the pillow full of feathers had already been burst asunder on a high windy hill, and now I needed to keep the thread up so people could quench ALL nagging doubts about said priest, because the allegations were unfounded, ravings of a mental patient, later retracted, etc.

    But let's be honest -- if it came out that a prominent Traditional priest or bishop regularly "partook" of "the herb" there would be a ****storm on the interwebz, and you know it.
    and
    Tradman wrote:

    Quote
    Recreational use of Marijuana



    1. Opens the soul to demonic influence.
    2. Weakens moral judgement
    3. Promotes immorality
    4. Fosters narcissism
    5. Leads to moral pessimism
    6. Is socially and morally divisive
    7. Promotes laziness toward Catholic works
    8. Promotes disobedience to priests and the Church
    9. Promotes disobedience to secular authority
    10.  Is a safety issue for children who's parents use.
    11. Causes neglect, and abuse of children by parents who use
    12. Dulls sense of guilt and is counter to Sacrament of Confession
    13. Profanes the reception of the Eucharist
    14. Is falsely equated with moderate use of alcohol
    15. Often leads to use of other drugs
    16. Promotes secrecy and leads to animosity
    17. Promotes other crime
    18. Often destroys relationships
    19. Impedes the desire to attain heaven
    20. Leads to a liberal and worldly mindset
    21. Retards emotions
    22. Wastes opportunities for good
    23 Impedes Christ's mandate to evangelize
    24 Denies Scripture's command to stay sober
    25 Denies the modest conduct of Our Lady
    26 Leads to the unforgivable sin of despair
    27 Is often its own object of worship
    28. Causes certain kinds of brain damage
    29. Often leads to other addictions
    30. Inhibits holiness
    31. Is well founded in paganism, abhorred in Christendom
    32. Is proven by all the above to be a "sacrament" of the diabolic
     
    This list is by no means exhaustive, barely even scratches the surface. After it exceeded 21, I figured this was enough to get the picture.  If anyone disagrees, present your argument.  Whatever you do, don't smoke weed, rather, do penance for the salvation of souls.





    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #391 on: March 21, 2022, 03:03:20 AM »
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  • What diverted this thread away from sins of the flesh associated with recreational use of Marijuana (that Tradman detailed), and what Matthew was referring to with regard to Roscoe? 

    Answer: It was turned by Mark79 into a medical use of marijuana and its benefits thread.

    Matthew was not talking about Roscoe's medical use.

    Therefore, I return the subject of this thread to what it was originally, it is about recreational use of MJ. And because of the experience in other threads, I specifically request from Matthew that the subject be further restricted to use among young girls and boys and what we teach them and the example that we should set.  THE reality today of what our children will be confronted.

    Let's shine a light on the real issue, for it is not medical use or two old hippies with no children smoking "to relax" in their trailer in Arizona.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #392 on: March 21, 2022, 03:14:09 AM »
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  • You made this very revealing statement.

    You claimed that your "experience" (your exact word) allowed you to know the advice of multiple priests (you used the plural) and were in a position to know the results of that advice regarding five concerns. So, unless 1 penitent had sins related to all five topics, you are claiming you have knowledge of the sins of multiple penitents before and after the advice of multiple priests.

    You cannot know the advice of multiple priests unless you were told by the priests and penitents or listened at the confessional. Which is it? Did multiple priests break the seal of the confessional? Or did you listen to the confessions of others? Or did multiple people decide that they also needed to confess their sins to you? Which is it?

    You cannot know the outcome of that advice unless you can compare the sins before and after the advice. To make that comparison you must have knowledge of the sɛҳuąƖ activities of multiple people. How did you get that knowledge?  Did all those penitents give you a tally of their porn use, masturbation, and fornication?  Were you doing occult paranormal "remote viewing"? Or were you a serial Peeping Tom?

    Of course, there is another possibility… You lied that you have "experience," simply did the Meg thing, presumed you know the interior forum and project acts about which you could only perversely know or imagine, and are just what we know you to be—a rabid blowhard perverted bullsh*tter.

    Your own statement reveals that you are a seriously disordered person—sɛҳuąƖly and spiritually—who foams and perversely ruminates about and projects the sɛҳuąƖ sins of others. It seems that your stated sɛҳuąƖ past is reflected in your present disorder.

    Totally disgusting.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #393 on: March 21, 2022, 11:52:42 AM »
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  • What diverted this thread away from sins of the flesh associated with recreational use of Marijuana (that Tradman detailed), and what Matthew was referring to with regard to Roscoe? 

    Answer: It was turned by Mark79 into a medical use of marijuana and its benefits thread.

    Matthew was not talking about Roscoe's medical use.

    Therefore, I return the subject of this thread to what it was originally, it is about recreational use of MJ. And because of the experience in other threads, I specifically request from Matthew that the subject be further restricted to use among young girls and boys and what we teach them and the example that we should set.  THE reality today of what our children will be confronted.

    Let's shine a light on the real issue, for it is not medical use or two old hippies with no children smoking "to relax" in their trailer in Arizona.
    This debate has panned out just like a debate on EENS & "Salvation of all by Implicit Faith" in that Mark79 has duped the indifferent by doing an end run around the 32 points above without answering any of them, which are all facts from the real world, that anyone can observe about recreational use of marijuana by young people. It is the same with EENS, they just do an end run around all the dogmas to convince today 99% of Catholics that nice people are somehow saved.

    My advice is not just answer anything Mark79, Epiphany, Roscoe, and Digital Logos write, do not give them a platform to divert the focus of the debate which is recreational use of marijuana among young girls and boys which is precise and the 32 points above which have not been all addressed.

    The end runs are switching to medical use and sentimentalism for the sick , which is not what we are discussing here, and saying that according to moral theology "marijuana use is neutral, that it depends of how it is used". Those are just end runs that do not answer the real issues with recreational MJ use among the young.




    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #394 on: March 21, 2022, 12:17:55 PM »
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  • This debate has panned out just like a debate on EENS & "Salvation of all by Implicit Faith" in that Mark79 has duped the indifferent by doing an end run around the 32 points above without answering any of them, which are all facts from the real world, that anyone can observe about recreational use of marijuana by young people. .......

    The end runs are 1) switching to medical use and sentimentalism for the sick , which is not what we are discussing here, and 2) saying that according to moral theology "marijuana use is neutral, that it depends of how it is used". Those are just end runs that do not answer the real issues with recreational MJ use among the young.

    Concerning the end run #2 around the 32 points, which is saying that "according to moral theology "marijuana use is neutral, that it depends of how it is used", not a one supporter of that end run has posted Jone Moral Theology that they keep "interpretating". God does not teach the children through moral theologians, his children, the common man in Africa, South America, Indian, China, and the whole world .... ("But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such".) so there must be something wrong with these "interpretations" because they make no sense. Any illiterate Catholic of good will ( a barefoot Juan Diego in Mexico ) knows that MJ should not be used recreationally, because it is a bad example to the children and non-Catholics, it is a scandal. So there must be something wrong with these "interpretations". It is always that way, God's voice is for the simple and humble, those not attached to things of this world. And so, I took out my Jone and read the passage that is being used by the "interpreters" that never posted Jone, just their "interpretations". And there it is "It may be a mortal sin because of scandal, injury to health, harm to one’s family, etc." Exactly what the Catholic "children" here knew all along, the list of 32 reasons.


    Quote
    JONE Moral Theology #110 (TAN books, Imprimatur 1961)
    Intemperance in drinking which has as its im­mediate effect the loss of the use of reason is a graver sin than immoderation in eating.
    Intoxication that results in a partial loss of reason is only a venial sin.
    It may be a mortal sin because of scandal, injury to health, harm to one’s family, etc.
    Intoxication that ends in complete loss of reason is a mortal sin if brought on without a sufficient reason.
    Complete loss of reason is presumed in him who can no longer distinguish good from bad, or if, after the drunkenness has passed, he cannot remember what he said or did while under the influence of drink, or if one does a thing which he never would have done when sober.
    A sufficient reason to deprive oneself temporally of his use of reason would be to cure a disease or to counteract blood poisoning and the like. Merely to drive away the blues is not adequate reason.
    To make another person completely drunk is also a grave sin, unless there is a sufficient excuse, e.g., to prevent him from com­mitting a great crime. It is more readily permissible to be the occasion of another’s intoxication, e.g., at a banquet.
    Since morphine, opium, chloroform and similar drugs can also deprive one of the use of his reason tem­porarily, that which was said of intoxicating drinks holds also for narcotics (Cf. 165, 4).
    To use narcotics in small quantities and only occasionally, is a venial sin if done without a sufficient reason. Any proportionately good reason justifies their use, e.g., to calm the nerves, dispel insomnia, etc.
    Such use becomes gravely sinful if it creates an habitual craving for “dope” which is more difficult to overcome than dipsomania and more injurious to health.
    To use drugs in greater quantities so as to lose the use of one’s reason is in itself a mortal sin; but for a good reason it is permissible.
    Such a good reason is had in case of operations, i.e., that the patient be rendered insensible to intense pain, or that one might remain calm under the knife. In like manner one may administer opiates to one who is suffering greatly in order to alleviate his pain.
    In general it is forbidden to make a patient un­conscious by the use of drugs in non-lethal doses in order that he may have a painless death (therapeutic euthanasia 211).
    Such action is lawful if the sick person is well prepared for death and there is danger that he might otherwise fall into sin. Some authors allow such a procedure if the dying person is thus spared unusually great suffering and if one has reason to presume his consent. — According to the general opinion such a practice is not allowed merely to remove the ordinary anxieties that accom­pany the death agony. If the patient asks for such drugs in good faith and if there is no hope of teaching him otherwise, he should be left in good faith.

    Such a practice is never allowed if the sick person is not prepared for death, and hope remains that he might eventually prepare for it. In such a case one must oppose as far as he can the doctors and relatives who desire to effect his dying while unconscious.






    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #395 on: March 21, 2022, 12:17:55 PM »
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  • “Can you hear me now?”

    :jester:


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #396 on: March 21, 2022, 12:20:51 PM »
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  • The title of this thread is "…MARIJUANA USE…," not restricted to recreational use.



    You (plural) point to the Church teaching about being "sober."  THAT is based on the risks of abuse.  I see no mention in 1 Thessalonians 5:7-9 of exceptions, so how exactly does the Church justify ANY use of alcohol? Return to first principles: avoid undue risk of self-harm (whether physically or spiritually).

    Since you claim MJ use is different from alcohol use, the burden is on YOU to make the case for the moral or medical difference—on something more substantial than your half-baked [pun-intended] "opinion."

    No. I cannot point to "a" single study, but to dozens, even hundreds of studies. Glad you asked. :jester:


    Start here, my bibliography for a series of 8 articles I wrote about medical marijuana in 2010-2011 when it was an issue in our state:

    Important reviews
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
    www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
    Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
    http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
    Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
    popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1
    AIDS/HIV
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
    “Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86
    ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
    Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004
    Alzheimer's Disease
    Alzheimer's Disease
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003
    Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
    See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Cancer
    Gliomas/Cancer
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
    “Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
    Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1
    Cardiovascular disease
    The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
    of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
    Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
    http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
    Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
    Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
    The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
    Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
    http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm
    Crohns Disease
    Gastrointestinal Disorders
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009
    Endocannabinoid sysytem
    The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
    http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf
    Endocrine disease, diabetes
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
    http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf
    Fibromyalgia
    Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
    Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
    Fibromyalgia
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007
    Glaucoma
    American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
    http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
    Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124
    Hepatitis C
    Hepatitis C
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010
    Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
    Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
    Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
    Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
    Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
    Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
    Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
    Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
    Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
    http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
    Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
    Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
    Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360
    Muscle Spasms
    Dystonia
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
    “Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106
    Nausea
    See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Pain
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Chronic Pain
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
    “Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#
    Post traumatic Stress Disorder
    Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
    [Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
    The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf
    Public policy
    Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
    http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf
    Seizures
    See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    “Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #397 on: March 21, 2022, 12:43:41 PM »
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  • The title of this thread is "…MARIJUANA USE…," not restricted to recreational use.
    That's the end run at work again, that I am shining a light on. The writer above is once again attempting to switch the discussion to "medical use and sentimentalism for the sick" mode.  Matthew was not talking about medical use when he started this thread about Roscoe. The writer of the quote above, Mark79,  was the one that conveniently switched this thread to  "medical use and sentimentalism for the sick" mode.

    Everyone notice how he starts in with his spam to obscure, the gigantic  horn and more to come.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #398 on: March 21, 2022, 12:48:52 PM »
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  • Uh oh… he read something I posted.… and ignored his supposed Lenten avoidance of posting.

    Who is surprised?

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #399 on: March 22, 2022, 05:39:52 AM »
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  • That's the end run at work again, that I am shining a light on. The writer above is once again attempting to switch the discussion to "medical use and sentimentalism for the sick" mode.  Matthew was not talking about medical use when he started this thread about Roscoe. The writer of the quote above, Mark79,  was the one that conveniently switched this thread to  "medical use and sentimentalism for the sick" mode.

    Everyone notice how he starts in with his spam to obscure, the gigantic  horn and more to come.
    Matthew wrote at the very beginning of this thread:

    Quote
    But let's be honest -- if it came out that a prominent Traditional priest or bishop regularly "partook" of "the herb" there would be a ****storm on the interwebz, and you know it.
    There is a great example of the sin of scandal that I highlighted above, anyone can understand this. Now watch Matrk79 switch that to medical use by a bishop. 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #400 on: March 22, 2022, 06:00:24 AM »
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  • We are traditionalist Catholics so where are all the writings showing clear approval of recreational usage of MJ, writings from time proven saints, doctors, popes, priests, learned respected Catholic laymen? I tell you, smart people here have been duped on this one by a sleight of hand, an end run around everything the protects us from error.

    On this subject of recreational use of MJ among young girls and boys,  99% of the trad Catholics, those with children or grandchildren or nieces and nephews, are in agreement that recreational use of marijuana smoking is a scandal and a grave danger to the family, as the "interpreters" own source states (mind you from 1961!):


    Quote
    JONE Moral Theology #110 (TAN books, Imprimatur 1961)

    Intemperance in drinking which has as its im­mediate effect the loss of the use of reason is a graver sin than immoderation in eating.
    Intoxication that results in a partial loss of reason is only a venial sin.
    It may be a mortal sin because of scandal, injury to health, harm to one’s family, etc.


    From first time poster on CI  rochefrocauld, one of the 99% of trad Catholics who disapproves of recreational use of MJ:



    Is smoking marijuana a sin?

    Neither the effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards...will possess the kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:10). Drunkenness is a deliberate excess in the use of intoxicating drink or drugs to the point of forcibly depriving oneself of the use of reason for the sake of gratifying an inordinate desire for such drink and not for the sake of promoting health. This is contrary to the virtue of temperance, and specifically sobriety. Sobriety regulates man’s desire and use of intoxicants, and is vitally necessary for an upright moral life.

    The evil of intoxication lies in the violence committed against one’s nature by depriving it of the use of reason. He deprives himself of that which makes him specifically human — his ability to think. The drunk, or in this case the drug user, desires this loss of reason because of the feeling of liberation which accompanies it precisely from this lack of control of the will over the reason. It is unnatural, contrary to sleep, which also deprives one of the use of reason but in a natural manner.

    Drug use gives an illicit means of escape. Besides being a sin, it also manifests an immaturity on the part of the user. Through an act of violence against himself, he escapes from the responsibility of decision making and control in his life. When this deprivation is complete, e.g., actions totally contrary to normal behavior, incapability of distinguishing between good and evil, etc., it is a grave sin. “In vino veritas,” said the Romans, not without reason. Any state short of complete drunkenness, without sufficient reason, is of itself venially sinful, but even in this case it may be a mortal sin if it causes scandal, injury to health, harm to one’s family, etc. It is important also to note that a man is responsible for all the sinful actions committed while intoxicated which he had, or ought to have, foreseen.

    According to Jone-Adelman in Moral Theology, the use of drugs in small quantities and only occasionally is a venial sin if done without sufficient reason. This could be the case, for example, with sleeping pills. Obviously, deprivation of the use of reason through narcotics is to be judged as alcohol. The use of most drugs is complicated by the fact that they are illegal. This also signifies the will of the user to break the law, an offense against social justice. This compounds the sin. The speed with which a drug alters one’s consciousness also aggravates its use. This rapidity risks a greater potential to deprive oneself of the use of reason and thus to pass on to stronger intoxicants for increased effect.

    Therefore, adding to the violation of the virtue of justice, the grave scandal caused, the grave danger of addiction, and the stronger consciousness-altering ability of marijuana, it is difficult to excuse one of mortal sin. Moreover, experience tells us that its use is frequently an occasion of mortal sin, especially sins of the flesh and the use of narcotic drugs. But to willingly and knowingly place oneself in an unnecessary proximate occasion of mortal sin is to commit a mortal sin.  Fr. James Doran, September 1993

    Is it a mortal sin to use drugs?

    The old text books [on moral theology] do not speak of this new problem of the modern world. However, the immorality of drug abuse can be clearly deduced from the principles which allow an evaluation of the malice of alcohol abuse. The distinction is made between imperfect drunkenness, the fact of making oneself tipsy deliberately, which can only be a venial sin, and perfect drunkenness, which is drinking until one is drunk. This is a mortal sin because a drunken person loses the use of reason. This is St. Thomas Aquinas’s response to the objection that the quantity of wine drunk is but a circuмstance, which cannot make a venial sin into a mortal sin:
    Quote
    Quote
    With regard to drunkenness we reply that it is a mortal sin by reason of its genus: for that a man, without necessity, and through the mere lust of wine, makes himself unable to use his reason, whereby he is directed to God and avoids committing many sins, is expressly contrary to virtue. That it be a venial sin is due to some sort of ignorance or weakness, as when a man is ignorant of the strength of the wine, or of his own unfitness, so that he has no thought of getting drunk, for in that case the drunkenness is not imputed to him as a sin, but only the excessive drink…." (Summa Theologica, I-II, q. 88, art. 5, ad1)


    The consumption of illegal drugs, even those called soft drugs, is comparable not to becoming tipsy on a little wine but to perfect drunkenness. For these drugs have their effect by causing a “high,” that is, an emotional experience when a person escapes from the demands of reality. For a brief period he lives in an unreal, euphoric world. All the other effects, such as relaxation, come as a consequence of this “high,” or unreal euphoria. If this state does not always prohibit all use of reason, it most certainly does always impede the most important use of reason, which St. Thomas just explained to us “whereby he is directed to God and avoids committing many sins.” All drugs deaden the conscience, and obscure the practical judgment as to right and wrong and what we must do. With respect to morality, their effect is consequently equivalent to the removal of the use of reason, and is a practical refusal to direct all of man’s acts to God through reason.

    Drug abuse is consequently much worse than the pure seeking of pleasure or relaxation that some claim it to be. It is a denial of the natural and supernatural order, according to which God has created us in His image and likeness that our acts might be ordered to His honor and glory. Moreover, it goes without saying that the abuse of drugs is directly opposed to the Catholic spirit, which spirit of sacrifice, the practical application of the spirit of the cross, is essential to the living of our faith.

    As previously mentioned, the principal evil of drug abuse is the destruction of moral conscience. It follows that the atrocious consequences of drug abuse are inseparable from it, and are willed together with the drugs themselves. This includes the breaking of the law in the consumption of drugs; and in the means of obtaining them, such as theft; and in the effort to sell them in turn to others, often minors or children. Other consequences include the incredible self-indulgence which accompanies the almost insatiable desire for always more titillating experiences, sins of blasphemy, the often satanic rock music, and the sins against purity and chastity, which are the consequence of the loss of shame and conscience.

    Sins against charity and justice abound, such as disobedience to parents and refusal to do one’s duty at school or work, not to mention the bad company-keeping which is the breeding ground of all vices. Long term results are also willed in their cause, and they include such things as emotional and physical addiction, the passage from soft to hard drugs, the damage done to the body and to general health by prolonged drug use, culminating in the “fried” brains of the person who cannot even reason clearly, let alone make a moral judgment. It is a mortal sin to place one’s physical and spiritual health in such proximate danger, even if a person is to pretend that he is immune from this danger and that “it could not happen to me.”

    Even the often liberal and ambiguous Catechism of the Catholic Church, published in 1994 in application of the principles of Vatican II, acknowledges this:
    Quote
    Quote
    The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law." (§2291)

    This does not, however, exclude the use of narcotic drugs for therapeutic reasons. Their use, under medical supervision, is justified by a sufficiently grave and proportionate reason, even if they do deprive a person temporarily of the use of reason. (Cf. Merkelbach, Summa Theologiae Moralis, II, 925). For it is not the loss of reason which is willed. It is only an indirect consequence, so that there is not necessarily a disorder with respect to the final end of man. The typical example is pain control.

    In conclusion, therefore, the use of marijuana, like any hard or soft drug, must be considered a mortal sin. If on occasion some people might be in ignorance as to the gravity of this sin, it is clearly evident that the matter is objectively serious. Consequently, it must be confessed as a mortal sin, and a person is obliged to confess drug abuse under pain of a bad or sacrilegious confession. If he forgot to confess the sin, he must then confess it at the first possible opportunity that he has. The priest who claimed that this was not a mortal sin has fallen into the trap of laxity.



    Fr. Peter Scott, January 1999
    https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/smoking-marijuana-sin-3188


    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #401 on: March 22, 2022, 06:47:15 AM »
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  • We are traditionalist Catholics so where are all the writings showing clear approval of recreational usage of MJ, writings from time proven saints, doctors, popes, priests, learned respected Catholic laymen? 
    The Bible good enough for you?

    Bringing forth grass for cattle, and herb for the service of men. That thou mayst bring bread out of the earth:"
    [Psalms 103:14]


    And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat:
    Genesis 1:29

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #402 on: March 22, 2022, 07:00:48 AM »
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  • The Bible good enough for you?

    Bringing forth grass for cattle, and herb for the service of men. That thou mayst bring bread out of the earth:"
    [Psalms 103:14]


    And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat:
    Genesis 1:29
    Totally Protestant, self-interpretation, "bible only".

    One has to have a long line of Doctors, Saints, Popes, time approved teachings. With scripture, one can justify just about anything, that is why there are as many Protestant sects as there are Protestants.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #403 on: March 22, 2022, 08:24:21 AM »
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  • Totally Protestant, self-interpretation, "bible only".

    One has to have a long line of Doctors, Saints, Popes, time approved teachings. With scripture, one can justify just about anything, that is why there are as many Protestant sects as there are Protestants.

    Here's my answer, again, for you:
    Again, your reading comprehension skills and putting words in my mouth are appalling.

    I never said any such thing about young girls and boys using MJ.

    I said MJ should be no more regulated than alcohol.

    When the Bible is clear, no interpretation is required unless, of course, you have a reading comprehension issue.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #404 on: March 22, 2022, 08:56:45 AM »
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  • LT, you quoted Jone and missed the most important phrase - LOSS OF THE USE OF REASON.  This is the factor which determines sinfulness. 

    Both alcohol and MJ can be used without loss of reason.  You continue to ignore this reality.

    Some people can’t just have 1-2 drinks (they can’t control this impulse and get drunk), others can.  

    If alcohol and MJ were the proximate occasions to sin that you say they are (ie any use ALWAYS leads to sin) then the Church would’ve condemned them long ago.  But she hasn’t because people are different and some situations are a BIG temptation for 1 person and not a temptation at all for another.  

    As the Greeks wisely said:  “Know thyself”.  Personal responsibility is the key to salvation.