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Author Topic: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?  (Read 59994 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
« Reply #180 on: January 03, 2022, 04:56:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2022, 08:42:35 AM
    Comparing casual use of alcohol, like drinking wine with a meal, compared with smoking today's marijuana, is like comparing an Olympic dive pool with a home or hotel pool. In the home/hotel pool a small child could play on the steps, a non-swimmer can stand in the shallow end, and a swimmier can swim across the deep end. In an Olympic diving pool, you only have a deep end 17 foot deep, you either swim, or don't jump in. With marijuana you either get wasted out of your mind or you do not smoke it.

    Quote
    Mark 79 responded
    You make ever more absurd comparisons.
    By his own admittance Mark79 has said he have never tried marijuana, let alone todays MJ, so how would he know to what degree it trashes one. Reading articles? How would he know what to believe? He has no personal experience, apparently, he has no friends or relatives that smoke pot.

    The biggest problem with these internet discussions is that the people can't be seen, so I am here debating with someone that if I was face to face, I would know how they really live and would likely not bother with. Does he have any children that listen to his advice? How old is he?  Why so much interest in MJ? I remember reading that close to 60% of Americans are on some kind of mind-altering substance, whether prescription drugs, alcohol, MJ, other illegal drugs. Does he have physical or mental problems that require his use of mind-altering medications? Why so much interest in MJ, that he feels compelled to defend its use here? Who knows? One thing is a certain, Mark79 has a dog in this race.



    "They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned". (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

    "They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved". (Pope St. Gregory the Great)


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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #181 on: January 03, 2022, 05:14:46 PM »
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    • Sorry for the large lettering, I timed out before I could fix it, here it is again:

    By his own admittance Mark79 has said he have never tried marijuana, let alone todays MJ, so how would he know to what degree it trashes one. Reading articles? How would he know what to believe? He has no personal experience, apparently, he has no friends or relatives that smoke pot.

    The biggest problem with these internet discussions is that the people can't be seen, so I am here debating with someone that if I was face to face, I would know how they really live and would likely not bother with. Does he have any children that listen to his advice? How old is he?  I remember reading that close to 60% of Americans are on some kind of mind-altering substance, whether prescription drugs, alcohol, MJ, other illegal drugs. Does he have physical or mental problems that require his use of mind-altering medications? Why so much interest in MJ, that he feels compelled to defend its recreational use here? Who knows? One thing is a certain, Mark79 has a dog in this race.



    "They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned". (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

    "They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved". (Pope St. Gregory the Great)


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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #182 on: January 03, 2022, 07:00:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2022, 02:59:40 PM
    My answers in red or bold

    …(I have not said one word about whether it is sinful to smoke marijuana. I don't go into moral theology, I could care less about all the minute details of why and how something can be a venial or mortal sin like you do. We think differently. I live in the real world where actions have repercussions.)  My point is that if the principles apply to alcohol, the same principles apply to MJ.  Your argument pertains to the application.  Indeed, you can make the case that it's mortal sin to take hits from some unknown strain of MJ with unknown potency, without sufficient reason, because it's possible and even likely that it'll impair your faculties (There you go again off into moral theology, are you still capable of thinking without looking at actions according to their degree of sinfulness? ).  

    And only a few hours before:


    Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2022, 10:21:17 AM

    I can just imagine a smart priest, fresh out of a Rome Novus Ordo seminary, reciting the above as a sermon about pre-marital relations, and then all the girls will conclude that it is OK to go on dates by themselves to "just make out and get fondled, BUT no more!"

    They'll all end up pregnant (unless they use birth control).



    So… which is it? Do you care about the morality? Or not?

    Make up your addled mind.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #183 on: January 03, 2022, 07:20:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2022, 05:14:46 PM
    Sorry for the large lettering, I timed out before I could fix it, here it is again:

    By his own admittance Mark79 has said he have never tried marijuana, let alone todays MJ, so how would he know to what degree it trashes one. Reading articles? How would he know what to believe? He has no personal experience, apparently, he has no friends or relatives that smoke pot.

    The biggest problem with these internet discussions is that the people can't be seen, so I am here debating with someone that if I was face to face, I would know how they really live and would likely not bother with. Does he have any children that listen to his advice? How old is he?  I remember reading that close to 60% of Americans are on some kind of mind-altering substance, whether prescription drugs, alcohol, MJ, other illegal drugs. Does he have physical or mental problems that require his use of mind-altering medications? Why so much interest in MJ, that he feels compelled to defend its recreational use here? Who knows? One thing is a certain, Mark79 has a dog in this race.



    "They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned". (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

    "They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved". (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

    An outside observer would say:

    Gee, Mark 7:9 posted dozens medical references on a medical subject and Meg and Last Tradhican have only responded with unsubstantiated opinions and attacks on Mark and Mark's children.

    Hmmm who has evidence and who is like a damn Jєω character assassin?

    Tough question, eh?

    Here are the references a third time. See also the NIH ink on alcohol:


    Important reviews
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
    www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
    Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
    http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
    Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
    popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1

    AIDS/HIV
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
    “Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86

    ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
    Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004

    Alzheimer's Disease
    Alzheimer's Disease
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003

    Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
    See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf

    Cancer
    Gliomas/Cancer
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
    “Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
    Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1

    Cardiovascular disease
    The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
    of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
    Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
    http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
    Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
    Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
    The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
    Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
    http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm

    Crohns Disease
    Gastrointestinal Disorders
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009

    Endocannabinoid sysytem
    The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
    http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf

    Endocrine disease, diabetes
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
    http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf

    Fibromyalgia
    Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
    Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
    Fibromyalgia
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007

    Glaucoma
    American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
    http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
    Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124

    Hepatitis C
    Hepatitis C
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010

    Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
    Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
    Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
    Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
    Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
    Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
    Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
    Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
    Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
    http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
    Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
    Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
    Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360

    Muscle Spasms
    Dystonia
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
    “Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106

    Nausea
    See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Pain
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Chronic Pain
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
    “Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#

    Post traumatic Stress Disorder
    Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
    [Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
    The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf

    Public policy
    Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
    http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf

    Seizures
    See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    “Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #184 on: January 03, 2022, 07:29:54 PM »
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    • Forced by medical studies, in 2010 our state begrudgingly allowed MEDICAL marijuana for:

    Seizures
    Pain
    Nausea
    Muscle Spasms
    PTSD
    Cancer
    Seizure
    Hepatitis C
    Multiple Sclerosis
    HIV/AIDS
    Crohn's Disease
    Anorexia/Cachexia
    Glaucoma

    In 2020 recreational use and cultivation was approved by the voters.

    Do you think that attacking me or my children persuades a single person of the "dangers" [scarey music]  of marijuana ("marijuana" echoes… echoes… echoes… fades)?

    You are still asking questions that I have already answered. If you can't/won't accurately and honestly parse a few pages, how are you qualified to assess any body of study???
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #185 on: January 03, 2022, 08:50:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 03, 2022, 07:29:54 PM

    In 2020 recreational use and cultivation was approved by the voters. (so is abortion, sodomy, fornication, Peℓσѕι, Biden, covid lockdowns and vaccines, pro- Zionism ....and everything else un-Catholic. This MJ thing just happens to be something you like, that's all.)

    Do you think that attacking me or my children persuades a single person of the "dangers" of marijuana (I don't know if you have any children or anything about you, they were all questions. I don't need to convince any real trad on CI of the dangers of recreational MJ, I actually just stepped in because you were browbeating Meg, I do not care much for such activity on the part of men.  As far as recreational use of MJ by trads here on CI, all I have to do is shine a light on it and those that have the faith will recognize it, the reason why we have nothing to do with it:

    It is all about mediocrity

    "They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned". (Bl. Angela of Foligno)


    "They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved". (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

    My reply in red above
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #186 on: January 03, 2022, 09:32:57 PM »
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    • Interesting how you depict lying (repeatedly misrepresenting my clearly stated positions, talking out of both sides of your mouth, interested in the morality and then not interested in the morality, putting my children in your line of fire and then denying it) as somehow rescuing a damsel in distress. You spray perfume on your turds.

    Interesting too how you have avoided addressing any evidence or providing any evidence of your own (other than your gratuitous assertions, augury of the interior dispositions of others, and inept attempts at character assassination).

    Such great Catholic paragons you are: presumptuous, self-vaunted, self-deluding, hypocritical, illogical, sanctimonious, and dishonest!

    I am still waiting for you and Meg to bilocate. I'm home now if you care to visit. :jester:


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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #187 on: January 03, 2022, 09:53:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 03, 2022, 07:20:19 PM

    An outside observer would say:

    Gee, Mark 7:9 posted dozens medical references on a medical subject and Meg and Last Tradhican have only responded with unsubstantiated opinions and attacks on Mark and Mark's children.

    Hmmm who has evidence and who is like a damn Jєω character assassin?

    Tough question, eh?

    Here are the references a third time. See also the NIH ink on alcohol:


    Important reviews
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Review on clinical studies with cannabis and cannabinoids 2005-2009. Hazecamp A and Grotenhermen F. Cannabinoids 2010;5(special issue):1-21.
    www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2010_01_special.pdf
    Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids: A Review of the Recent Scientific Literature, 2000 – 2010. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010.
    http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Clinical_Applications_for_Cannabis_and_Cannabinoids.pdf
    Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine, 1999
    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=6376
    popularized in: Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=R1

    AIDS/HIV
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7485
    “Marijuana and AIDS” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=86

    ALS (Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's Disease)
    Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7004

    Alzheimer's Disease
    Alzheimer's Disease
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7003

    Cachexia. Wasting syndrome
    See sections 3.1 and 3.2 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf

    Cancer
    Gliomas/Cancer
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7008
    “Marijuana and Cancer” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=95
    Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®). National Cancer Institute. 2011.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page1

    Cardiovascular disease
    The Potential for Clinical Use of Cannabinoids in Treatment
    of Cardiovascular Diseases. Durst R and Lotan C. Cardiovascular Therapeutics 2011 Feb;29(1):17-22. doi: 10.1111/j.1755-5922.2010.00233.x. Epub 2010 Oct 14.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20946323
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in cardiovascular disease. Pacher P, Steffens S. Semin Immunopathol. 2009 Jun;31(1):63-77. Epub 2009 Apr 9.
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/a04103g160h16450/fulltext.pdf
    Cannabinoid receptors in atherosclerosis. Steffens S, Mach F. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2006 Oct;17(5):519-26.
    http://journals.lww.com/co-lipidology/Abstract/2006/10000/Cannabinoid_receptors_in_atherosclerosis.5.aspx
    Cannabinoid receptors in acute and chronic complications of atherosclerosis. Mach F, Montecucco F, Steffens S. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 January; 153(2): 290–298.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219535/pdf/0707517a.pdf
    Endocannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors in ischaemia-reperfusion injury and preconditioning. Pacher P, Haskó G. Br J Pharmacol. 2008 Jan;153(2):252-62. Epub 2007 Nov 19.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707582/pdf
    The role of the endocannabinoid system in atherosclerosis. Mach F, Steffens S. J Neuroendocrinol. 2008 May;20 Suppl 1:53-7.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2826.2008.01685.x/pdf
    Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis | Medicinal Cannabis Information. Independent Drug Monitoring Unit, United Kingdom, undated
    http://www.idmu.co.uk/canncardio.htm

    Crohns Disease
    Gastrointestinal Disorders
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009

    Endocannabinoid sysytem
    The Endocannabinoid System as an Emerging Target of Pharmacotherapy. National Institute of Health: Pacher P, Bátkai S, Kunos G. Pharmacol Rev. 2006 Sep;58(3):389-462.
    http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/58/3/389.full.pdf

    Endocrine disease, diabetes
    The emerging role of the endocannabinoid system in endocrine regulation and energy balance. Pagotto U, Marsicano G, Cota D, Lutz B, Pasquali R. Endocr Rev. 2006 Feb;27(1):73-100. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
    http://fk.uwks.ac.id/elib/Arsip/Departemen/Biokimia/The%20Emerging%20Role%20of%20the%20Endocannabinoid%20System.pdf

    Fibromyalgia
    Nabilone for the Treatment of Pain in Fibromyalgia. Skrabek RQ, Galimova L, Ethans K, Perry D. J Pain. 2008 Feb;9(2):164-73. Epub 2007 Nov 5.
    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:9gDyCVhqJSMJ:files.meetup.com/404848/2008_Nabilone-for-the-Treatment-of-Pain-in-Fibromyalgia.pdf+Nabilone+for+the+Treatment+of+Pain+in+Fibromyalgia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjFGavzxEJkBjsOj_YyWPHuo5PRG034PLna8X6n3sXGT696PVuaEH15HF07xVpfV10wLPfon8-nZoD0RcJfU6LInnuqHOGpKDECN4oQ6OWBgGgwXWckH2QB31FTn1BZn0KX9U7A&sig=AHIEtbQlDN8uMzxJIm6KKL0POTJdhmbsvg
    Delta-9-THC based monotherapy in fibromyalgia patients on experimentally induced pain, axon reflex flare, and pain relief. Schley M, Legler A, Skopp G, Schmelz M, Konrad C, Rukwied R. Curr Med Res Opin. 2006 Jul;22(7):1269-76.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834825
    Fibromyalgia
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7007

    Glaucoma
    American Glaucoma Society position statement: Marijuana and the treatment of glaucoma. American Glaucoma Society, Prepared by Henry Jampel, M.D., M.H.S., August 10, 2009
    http://www.americanglaucomasociety.net/associations/5224/files/Marijuana%20and%20Glaucoma%20august%2030_BOD%20Approved%2010.23.09.pdf
    Marijuana and Glaucoma” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=124

    Hepatitis C
    Hepatitis C
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7010

    Marijuana effects, drug levels, DUI
    Marijuana effect and delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol plasma level. Chiang CWN and Barnett G. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1984 Aug;36(2):234-8.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6086207
    Contact highs and urinary cannabinoids excretion after passive exposure to marijuana smoke. Cone EJ and Johnson RE. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics 1986 Sep;40(3):247-56.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3017628
    Do delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol concentrations indicate recent use in chronic cannabis users? Karschner EL, Schwilke EW, Lowe RH, Darwin WD, Pope HG, Herning R, Cadet JL, Huestis MA. Addiction. 2009 Dec;104(12):2041-8. Epub 2009 Oct 5.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1114
    Developing limits for driving under cannabis. Grotenhermen F, Leson G, Berghaus G, Drummer OH, Krüger HP, Longo M, Moskowitz H, Perrine B, Ramaekers JG, Smiley A, Tunbridge R. Addiction 2007 Dec;102(12):1910-7. Epub 2007 Oct 4.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17916224
    Urinary cannabinoid detection times after controlled oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol to humans. Gustafson RA, Levine B, Stout PR, Klette KL, George MP, Moolchan ET, Huestis MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1114-24.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816908
    Editorial: Practical Challenges to Positive Drug Tests for Marijuana. ElSohly MA. Clin Chem. 2003 Jul;49(7):1037-8.
    http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/reprint/49/7/1037
    Dose related risk of motor vehicle crashes after cannabis use. Ramaekers JG, Berghaus G, van Laar M, Drummer OH. Drug Alcohol Depend. 2004 Feb 7;73(2):109-19.
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/DoseRelatedRiskOfCrashes.pdf
    Tolerance and cross-tolerance to neurocognitive effects of THC and alcohol in heavy cannabis users. Ramaekers JG, Theunissen EL, de Brouwer M, Toennes SW, Moeller MR, Kauert G. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2011 Mar;214(2):391-401. Epub 2010 Oct 30.
    http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/dui/raemakers.etal.pdf
    Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review. Armentano P. NORML Foundation, Washington DC 2010
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459
    Sex differences in the effects of marijuana on simulated driving performance. Anderson BM, Rizzo M, Block RI, Pearlson GD, O'Leary DS. J Psychoactive Drugs. 2010 Mar;42(1):19-30.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/
    Effects of THC on driving performance, physiological state and subjective feelings relative to alcohol. Ronen A, Gershon P, Drobiner H, Rabinovich A, Bar-Hamburger R, Mechoulam R, Cassuto Y, Shinar D. Accid Anal Prev. 2008 May;40(3):926-34. Epub 2007 Nov 26.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360

    Muscle Spasms
    Dystonia
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7006
    “Marijuana and Muscle Spasticity” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=106

    Nausea
    See sections 3.1 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    Pain
    University of California Center for Medical Cannabis Research—2010 Report to the Legislature
    http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/images/pdfs/CMCR_REPORT_FEB17.pdf
    Chronic Pain
    http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7786
    “Marijuana and Pain” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=77#

    Post traumatic Stress Disorder
    Cannabinoid receptor activation in the basolateral amygdala blocks the effects of stress on the conditioning and extinction of inhibitory avoidance. Ganon-Elazar E, Akirav I. J Neurosci. 2009 Sep 9;29(36):11078-88.
    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/36/11078.full.pdf+html
    [Extinction of emotional response as a novel approach of pharmacotherapy of anxiety disorders]. Lehner M, Wisłowska-Stanek A, Płaznik A. Psychiatr Pol. 2009 Nov-Dec;43(6):639-53.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20209877
    The Use of a Synthetic Cannabinoid in the Management of Treatment‐Resistant Nightmares in Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Fraser GA. CNS Neurosci Ther. 2009 Winter;15(1):84-8.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00071.x/pdf

    Public policy
    Harm reduction-the cannabis paradox. Melamede R. Harm Reduct J. 2005 Sep 22;2:17.
    http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/pdf/1477-7517-2-17.pdf

    Seizures
    See sections 3.7 of Cannabinoids in medicine: A review of their therapeutic potential. Amar MB. Journal of Ethnopharmacology 105 (2006) 1–25.
    http://www.ucla.edu.ve/dmedicin/departamentos/fisiologia/cannabinoidsRevPatologias.pdf
    “Marijuana and Neurological Disorders” in Marijuana As Medicine? – The Science Behind the Controversy. Mack A and Joy J. National Academy of Science. National Academy Press, Washington DC 2000.
    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9586&page=115
    Well, hi kids, y'all playing nice in the sandbox tonight? Nice bunch of references there, Mark. Happy New Year everyone, btw. :-) If I were still doing research and writing papers, I would say you covered a lot of bases here (and I sure don't miss that stinking APA format, lol). I might peruse a few at my leisure, way down the road a bit.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #188 on: January 03, 2022, 10:07:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anne Evergreen on January 03, 2022, 09:53:05 PM
    Well, hi kids, y'all playing nice in the sandbox tonight? Nice bunch of references there, Mark. Happy New Year everyone, btw. :-) If I were still doing research and writing papers, I would say you covered a lot of bases here (and I sure don't miss that stinking APA format, lol). I might peruse a few at my leisure, way down the road a bit.
    Funny that you mention the APA format. I had another peer-reviewed paper published recently. I had written the paper using the APA format, but had to convert about 50 endnotes to follow the journal's unique endnote format. In the course of polishing the paper, I discovered that there are several new competing formats. What a headache.
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #189 on: January 04, 2022, 06:13:27 AM »
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    • Interesting how this thread generated 13+ pages of comments since Dec. 28!  Mary Jane must be a thing for traditional Catholics.  Who knew?!!

    Here’s a question. Drinking a beer or glass of wine, having one mixed drink does not result in drunkenness for most people.  Does smoking one joint get most people high?

    IOW, can marijuana be “used in moderation” by most adults?
    If it can, and occasional use does not result in an altered mental state, bodily harm, or progression to other, harder drugs, as was said in the 60’s and 70’s, then why should its moderate use be a sin?  Wouldn’t it be on par with the moderate use of alcohol?  

    The reason I’m asking is NOT because I’m a marijuana user and want to defend it!  I’m asking because I don’t know the answer.

    I tried it once back in the 1970’s as a college student, and didn’t like how it made me feel, a bad case of brain fog after a few tokes.  I can have a drink without mental effects.  Every now and then, I like a glass of wine with dinner and don’t get drunk or even “buzzed.”  

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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #190 on: January 04, 2022, 10:56:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on January 04, 2022, 06:13:27 AM
    Interesting how this thread generated 13+ pages of comments since Dec. 28!  Mary Jane must be a thing for traditional Catholics.  Who knew?!!

    Here’s a question. Drinking a beer or glass of wine, having one mixed drink does not result in drunkenness for most people.  Does smoking one joint get most people high?

    IOW, can marijuana be “used in moderation” by most adults?
    If it can, and occasional use does not result in an altered mental state, bodily harm, or progression to other, harder drugs, as was said in the 60’s and 70’s, then why should its moderate use be a sin?  Wouldn’t it be on par with the moderate use of alcohol? 

    The reason I’m asking is NOT because I’m a marijuana user and want to defend it!  I’m asking because I don’t know the answer.

    I tried it once back in the 1970’s as a college student, and didn’t like how it made me feel, a bad case of brain fog after a few tokes.  I can have a drink without mental effects.  Every now and then, I like a glass of wine with dinner and don’t get drunk or even “buzzed.” 

    My advocacy of medical MJ put me in contact with many MJ users. As I mentioned earlier, I met some rastafarians who seemed in a cloud of smoke, but the people I talked with were mostly medical and had "a puff in the morning and a puff in the evening" (the pain patients among, were able to eliminate 60-90 mg of prescribed morphine every day). They reported NO impairment, especially in comparison with the impairment they suffered from the risky doses of morphine (and oxycodone and Fentanyl) they were being prescribed. I did not get a sense that any of them, except the rasta dudes, were smoking joints. Admittedly that's anecdotal, but even those hundreds of anecdotes were enough to destroy the Reefer Madness narrative promoted by a couple here.

    Yes, it is not only possible, but common to use "sinless" doses of MJ.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #191 on: January 04, 2022, 11:19:25 AM »
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    • I have said it all along, I have not read one paper posted by Mark79, I assume they are about medical applications of marijuana, and I have no medical conditions whatsoever. I have been writing strictly about his advocating recreational use of marijuana. No Catholic that really lives the faith would ever even consider recreational use of marijuana. To me it is a big gaping hole on the side of this ship we are on in the sea of life. It tells me everything I need to hear. The reason why Catholics who really live the faith would have nothing to do with it is because it is all about mediocrity and Catholics are not seeking mediocrity, they are actually seeking to move away from it, they are seeking perfection.


    Quote
    "They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned". (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

    "They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved". (Pope St. Gregory the Great)


    It is not about at what point some action first turns into a minor venial sin, or a medium venial sin, or a bad venial sin approaching a minor mortal sin, or a minor mortal sin..... It is about seeking perfection. Those two quotes above should be sufficient to answer the question of whether a Catholic can use marijuana for recreational use and all the secular docuмents to the contrary are as nothing. That is why I do not waste my time studying error, it is legion, while the truth is one.

    It is not a sin to not do the rosary every day
    It is not a sin not to go to mass on weekdays
    It is not a sin to arrive late to mass and leave after the Ite.
    It is not a sin to not wear a suit and tie to mass
    It is not a sin to wear jeans, t-shirts, flip flops, tank tops, sneakers, to dress bummy to mass.
    It is not a sin to wear a dress that is a few inches above the knee
    It is not a sin to use NFP to have two children
    It is not a sin to have a few drinks every day after work.
    It is not a sin to take a toke off of a potent MJ.
    It is not a sin for one to go to a crowded beach
    It is not a sin to go to the Novus Ordo

    Living the faith goes way beyond the base avoidance of venial sin, it is about seeking perfection. Recreational smoking of marijuana is plebian, trite, vulgar, and uninspired.



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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #192 on: January 04, 2022, 11:22:24 AM »
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    • This whole BROO HA HA over Mary Juanita started when Admin( rather than reply to whatever I posted that upset him) slammed moi w/ an ad hominum attack as a MJ smoker.

    And ONE MORE TIME--- NO CHURCH AUTHORITY can be found condemning Mary Juanita.

    :sleep:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #193 on: January 04, 2022, 11:29:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 04, 2022, 11:19:25 AM
    It is not a sin to take a toke off of a potent MJ.

    You added the "potent" part in there as a strawan.  Clearly the principle is that it IS a grave sin to lose control of your reason without grave justification, and that it's a venial sin to slightly lose control without proportionate justification.  Nobody said what's in your strawman statement.

    Youl could ignore distinctions and pretend that all use of MJ is grave sin, and then create a false dilemma for someone at the hospital about whether they're allowed to take morphine for a broken arm.  It's important to get it right and not to make meaningless generalizations.

    As for the other statements.  Indeed it's not a sin to miss weekday Mass, and it's not a sin to arrive late (if you have justification).  It's throwing those out there the way you do that exacerbates scruples.  Someone is late to Mass because they decided to stop and help an old lady who's car broke down, and then they feel they need to confess that.  I could go through every one of your examples and show how it's actually true.  Church has always made a distinction between what's binding under pain of sin vs. what's ideal and recommended.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #194 on: January 04, 2022, 11:43:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 04, 2022, 11:29:58 AM
    …You could ignore distinctions and pretend that all use of MJ is grave sin, and then create a false dilemma for someone at the hospital about whether they're allowed to take morphine for a broken arm.  It's important to get it right and not to make meaningless generalizations.…

    I have said the same in different words, but THIS ^^^ is "my dog in the fight." Idiots have gotten in the way of a safe and effective medicine for far too long.

    The recreational issue is a sidelight for me. MJ is less toxic than alcohol. MJ has health benefits where alcohol has no benefit except as an inferior antiseptic. MJ can be titrated—and IS titrated by many—so that its use is not sinful.  I do not advocate recreational use any more than I advocate recreational use of alcohol, but I have no argument about judicious recreational use by NORMAL people.

    And thanks for dealing with the straw men. I could feed a corral of horses for a year with all the "straw" that pair has tossed out there.
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