Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?  (Read 62162 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline TKGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5845
  • Reputation: +4693/-490
  • Gender: Male
Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2022, 04:51:50 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
  • Let's reframe that logical fallacy:

    "For those who say that priests say that marijuana has no medical benefits, would those priests be the same ones who sodomize altar boys or ignore reports of sodomy at summer camp?"

    Care to retract your asinine illogic?
    I wasn't using logic here nor even trying to use logic.  I was pointing out a fact that virtually everyone here can recognize about modern "medical science".  Most medical studies today have no actual scientific value--and it's usually easy to tell because the conclusions always happen to agree with whatever is politically correct at the time, especially when it comes to drugs or pharmaceuticals.

    Interesting that most people can easily see that virtually everything these people say about "trans-sɛҳuąƖs", "homo-sɛҳuąƖs", the COVID "vaccine", wearing face masks, etc., etc., etc., is obvious bunk.  But, hey, they say smokin' pot is good!  I like this study.  They must be good scientific studies.

    Nice straw-man there.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2897/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #136 on: January 02, 2022, 04:59:58 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • You should  have put "" around the word 'truths'. As in '.... refuse "truths" about the nature of the Earth....'. That way it shows you're not that pretentious to assume you are immune from error. You aren't.... Right? This isnt to say you don't believe that your position is correct, obviously.

    People shouldn't be concerned with being fringe, no. But just cause you aren't concerned, it doesn't make you right in whatever issue you decide to hold to, just cause it's perceived more "fringe" by the world. If that was the case sedes would have sway over your R&R position because they are certainly considered more fringe by the world. If they're right, it's not the fringe perception that makes them right.

    Seems like lots of trads insulate themselves - not without reason- to the point of  being willing to become disconnected with reality to prove to themselves just how willing they are to follow the truth "where ever it may lead". There are dangers to these times and those dangers don't just come from the world, they can come from our own fallen nature.


    Great post!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4750
    • Reputation: +2897/-667
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #137 on: January 02, 2022, 05:23:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think we need to put aside some of the Puritanical and political aspects of marijuana use and focus on the PRINCIPLE of why either MJ or alcohol use would be sinful or wrong.

    It has to do with the alteration of the faculties.  When one gets to a point of losing control of one's higher faculties, the ability to reason, especially morally, one commits a grave sin by using the substance ... without sufficient reason.  So, for instance, if you're in extreme pain, there's nothing sinful about getting "high" with morphine or some other such drug.  So the only real differences, morally, between the two are 1) that you can get to that point a lot quicker with MJ than with alcohol ... and 2) possibly the legality.  Let's say, however, that we're in a state where recreation use is legal.

    If one gets "tipsy" or slightly elated, then that could be a venial sin without sufficient reason.  Sacred Scripture itself states that "wine brings joy to the heart of man".  So even the induction of a bit of elation (what some would call "recreational" use has a place).  Jone says that small amounts might be indulged in without sin for proportionate reason for things like relaxing the nerves.

    So there's a direct proportionality between the degree to which the higher faculties are effected and the justifying reason.  Complete loss of the faculties requires a grave reason, whereas a very slight impairment of the faculties would require a lesser reason.  And this could vary from individual to individual.  Some people might retain total control overthemselves with a bit of win or even MJ, whereas others might lose control and put themselves into occasions of sin.

    I've never used MJ, so I wouldn't know whether it's possible to take a couple hits and just get a little tipsy while maintaining control of one's faculties, no different than if one indulged in a couple glasses of wine or beer.  But assuming that's possible, I would see no moral reason for entirely avoiding it.  MJ seems not to be addictive in the manner of opiates, but variouis "addictive personalitles" should probably cautioned to avoid it, just as those prone to alcoholism need to avoid alcohol altogether even where it might be justified for someone without the problem.  Even the tiniest amount of addictive opiates for recreational reasons would be a serious sin due to the risk of becoming hooked (which happens often) and the absolutely destructive impacts it could have on one's life.  I've also heard of people "micro-dosing" with MJ, where they barely feel any effect related to the impairment of their natural faculties.

    Politically and historically, the major reason that MJ was outlawed was because some of the earliest motor vehicles ran on hemp oil, so Big Oil had to get rid of the competition, and they launched a major campaign to demonize it.  Then there were Puritanical movements to outlaw alcohol durign the Prohibition era that of course failed.

    So, in summary, I don't see any reason that medical use of MJ would be sinful provided that it does provide relief for various ailments, and that might even include people who suffer from anxiety or other ailments and who might benefit fromt the relaxation effects (again assuming they would use small amounts to the point necessary to alleviate their condition).  Even a tiny amount could be justified for "recreational" use in the same way that it's OK to have a bit of wine or beer to lift one's spirits.

    I’ve never taken any illegal drug and the strongest legal pain medication I’ve taken is 800mg of ibuprofen. 

    This post aligns almost exactly with my thoughts on the subject. It is clear and levelheaded. 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12495
    • Reputation: +8275/-1581
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #138 on: January 02, 2022, 06:22:06 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • I wasn't using logic here nor even trying to use logic.  I was pointing out a fact that virtually everyone here can recognize about modern "medical science".  Most medical studies today have no actual scientific value--and it's usually easy to tell because the conclusions always happen to agree with whatever is politically correct at the time, especially when it comes to drugs or pharmaceuticals.

    Interesting that most people can easily see that virtually everything these people say about "trans-sɛҳuąƖs", "homo-sɛҳuąƖs", the COVID "vaccine", wearing face masks, etc., etc., etc., is obvious bunk.  But, hey, they say smokin' pot is good!  I like this study.  They must be good scientific studies.

    Nice straw-man there.


    That's the Protestant "throw the baby out with the bath water" game.

    There's no end to that game.  "Oh, simony," so "The Roman Church is the whore of Babylon."

    Not interested.

    I am happy to be skeptical about anything and everything that is not directly from God…
    but I need to function in the world for the benefit of myself and my family, so I will take some things on faith (lower case "f") to get through the day.

    I don't need to review my cardiac surgeon's medical school transcripts before he operates on me.

    I don't need to have a "second opinion" from a mechanic every time I have a vehicle repaired.

    I don't need to send our groceries to a path lab to make sure they weren't poisoned.

    There is no shortage of sh*thead doctors or sh*thead patients. That doesn't mean I will do a year-long deep dive every time I need medical help.

    It seems to me that a few people here do themselves a disservice in their [nearly?] incapacitating level of mistrust about everything. An example: I think, perhaps wrongly, that Gladius mendacii would rather that his whole family died of a "no virus," than to get help if they needed it. God help them if they need medical help.

    I have plenty of mistrust of the medical establishment, but when I am able, I choose trustworthy physicians. Does that always work out? Well, not perfectly. I am legally blind in one eye because the sumbichés (that's a French word) didn't lubricate or tape my eyes shut when I was in a coma. BTW I was in coma, so I had no choice in the matter of selecting my caregiver. Tough luck for me. Thank God He preserved vision in one eye.

    So, I do NOT take every medical authority's word as Gospel. Certainly not with regard to COVID, mRNA bioweapons, or MJ.

    In fact it was my questioning of those medical authorities that prompted me to do the deep dive. Several people testified to me personally about the medical benefits they had received from MJ. That clashed with what I thought I "knew" about MJ, so I did the deep dive. Their own literature showed that their "party line" was complete manure, so I changed my opinion to match what I learned and advocated accordingly.

    If I was unwilling to confront the medical establishment, I would never have bothered to do the deep dive or to confront the medical jerks talking nonsense about MJ (like the .gov jerk who threatened purple-faced and bug-eyed to "get [me]" because I proved in a media debate that he was doing a Gladius, claiming his reference said something that it actually contradicted. I had read that new article the night before the debate, so it was crystal clear in my mind). It is still kind of funny, but he did try to "get me." He failed because I was as clean as a whistle, but it was definitely a hassle.

    BOTTOM LINE: It is because I care about the readers of this forum that I address this issue. It would be easy to say, "dummies," shake my head, and move on, but I worry, yes, worry, that people will let themselves be incapacitated by FACTUAL MISINFORMATION (e.g., denying the toxicity of alcohol or forgoing medical benefits of MJ, or dying because they refuse to seek help when they have a virus that some crackpot blowhard says doesn't exist).

    Really! How do these people function in life? Miserable, sour-faced, invincibly inconvincible trads are a bane. 

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12495
    • Reputation: +8275/-1581
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #139 on: January 02, 2022, 06:29:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • …they say smokin' pot is good! …

    No. "They" still say it is bad and that is why it is still illegal under federal law and a felony to prescribe.

    It's activists who have taken a grass roots approach to overturn the stupidities—as it will take grassroots resistance to overturn the mandates and lockdowns.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46813
    • Reputation: +27668/-5138
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #140 on: January 02, 2022, 06:39:24 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • I’ve never taken any illegal drug and the strongest legal pain medication I’ve taken is 800mg of ibuprofen.

    This post aligns almost exactly with my thoughts on the subject. It is clear and levelheaded.

    Same, with the one exception (albeit legal) being morphine after I dislocated my shoulder.  I must say it was a pleasant experience.  People who went with me to the ER said that I was smiling ear to ear.  I've been under general anaesthesia a couple times, but that's been about it.  I have no real desire to try MJ, so therefore don't have any horse in this race.  But this reasoning was based on what I read in Jone, and I just elaborated on it some.  It's easy for us to be influenced by the Puritanical US culture.

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #141 on: January 02, 2022, 07:02:43 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • My two cents:
    I have never smoked MJ, but I've had friends who did and most of them were just more lazy and apathetic than anything after using it. For transparency, the hardest drug I've ever taken is oxycotin for pain and I have a bottle of Hydroxyzine for panic attacks (which I've taken twice).

    I hate the hedonistic "culture" surrounding MJ, as I hate the hedonistic culture surrounding any other sort of substance abuse such as alcohol or even smoking. 

    MJ on its own is a benign enough substance that I don't see any evil in its occasional legal use, especially from a medical standpoint. God gave us MJ as He gave us tobacco and alcohol. Both of those can be abused to a sinful degree, as can MJ. But they can also be used in a moderate manner like alcohol or tobacco.

    I don't personally see how anything God created can be "inherently evil" like MJ has been labeled. It is abused like any other substance, and has been vilified beyond any other substance as well.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12495
    • Reputation: +8275/-1581
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #142 on: January 02, 2022, 07:10:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My two cents:
    I have never smoked MJ, but I've had friends who did and most of them were just more lazy and apathetic than anything after using it. For transparency, the hardest drug I've ever taken is oxycotin for pain and I have a bottle of Hydroxyzine for panic attacks (which I've taken twice).

    I hate the hedonistic "culture" surrounding MJ, as I hate the hedonistic culture surrounding any other sort of substance abuse such as alcohol or even smoking.

    MJ on its own is a benign enough substance that I don't see any evil in its occasional legal use, especially from a medical standpoint. God gave us MJ as He gave us tobacco and alcohol. Both of those can be abused to a sinful degree, as can MJ. But they can also be used in a moderate manner like alcohol or tobacco.

    I don't personally see how anything God created can be "inherently evil" like MJ has been labeled. It is abused like any other substance, and has been vilified beyond any other substance as well.

    A level-headed assessment.



    Offline Clarinha

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 34
    • Reputation: +34/-26
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #143 on: January 02, 2022, 07:46:43 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • I had a kidney stone on one occasion.  Didn’t know what was happening because the pain was in my side and I was sweating profusely. I had no clue. I went to the hospital and refused the morphine. I had an xray that confirmed it was a kidney stone. I gave in and took an oral opiate after being on my knees vomiting from the pain. I was then released with four medications including opiates and an anti-nausea medicine as well as a strainer to catch the stone. 

    Unfortunately, it is hard to take medicine when you are vomiting from pain and cannot even hold down water. A relative insisted that I smoke a very tiny amount of marijuana that she got from another relative. Almost instantly I was able to eat a whole bowl of soup and water and take the anti-nausea medicine, other meds and also pass the kidney stone. I didn’t get high, lose my sense of reason or even feel inebriated. I hated the opiates and eventually threw them away. I didn’t keep smoking the marijuana and a month later got a job that submits me to frequent urine testing which I still have three years later. 

    I don’t advocate, support or even argue for marijuana’s use. However, I can definitely see how Big Pharma has pushed a narrative that is to their own benefit when something as simple as a tiny piece of bush is more effective, safer and less addictive than four bottles of harmful pills. 

    With all that being said, I still don’t know if I would advocate or support or maintain an opinion in favor of medical or legal marijuana. That is for people above my studies to decide. 

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12495
    • Reputation: +8275/-1581
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #144 on: January 02, 2022, 07:50:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • God bless you for the courage to admit that despite the frothing zealots. 

    Offline Minnesota

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2353
    • Reputation: +1333/-624
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #145 on: January 02, 2022, 08:29:59 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • it's certainly better than the demonic opioid industry that is directly responsible for heroin and fentanyl deaths in this country.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed


    Offline bodeens

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1513
    • Reputation: +804/-160
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #146 on: January 02, 2022, 10:10:58 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Stanley has been banned for his disrespectful outburst against the moderator of the forum. Even his "fellow teammates" on Team Globe Earth haven't had a problem keeping a modicuм of respect for the Moderator, even as the content of their posts contradicts him pretty much 100% of the time. No matter. They manage to control their emotions.

    He is so wrapped up in proving the mainstream globe earth "outer space" paradigm, that he lowered himself to the tactic of the Liberals "I'm offended by that -- on behalf of those people" when it doesn't affect you at all.

    A comedian was joking about prosthetic legs, and a lady came up to him after the show saying she was offended by that "bit" in his act. He asked if she had a family member with a prosthetic leg. No. He asked a few more questions -- no, she had no reason to be offended. She was just offended FOR them. Then an English guy came up to the comedian, pulled up his pantleg showing his prosthetic leg, and said "That bit about the prosthetics? Bloody brilliant!"

    Why would Stanley fall for this obvious error? This behavior that every CathInfo member hates, and we criticize all the time when liberals do it? Because "roscoe" seemed to be coming into the debate on his side. It's a team sport for him. I guess it's not about getting to the truth, having an open mind? It's all "Rah Rah My Team".
    Why delete my post? What a joke.

    You ban Stanley but don't ban Xavier when he pushed Bayside for years and push other heresies and then delete my posts when pointing this out? You were in a real hurry to ban Stanley because, ironically, "Rah Rah My Team", in your own words. He had good arguments and you baited him into a situation in which you found it justifiable to ban him.

    Edit: I see after my post you deleted I got 30 downvotes in a single night LOL!!! I wonder who those came from? God Bless you, I don't hold you in any ill will but I just think this situation stinks and is stupid. 
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline DigitalLogos

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8304
    • Reputation: +4718/-754
    • Gender: Male
    • Slave to the Sacred Heart
      • Twitter
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #147 on: January 02, 2022, 10:18:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why delete my post? What a joke.

    You ban Stanley but don't ban Xavier when he pushed Bayside for years and push other heresies and then delete my posts when pointing this out? You were in a real hurry to ban Stanley because, ironically, "Rah Rah My Team", in your own words. He had good arguments and you baited him into a situation in which you found it justifiable to ban him.

    Edit: I see after my post you deleted I got 30 downvotes in a single night LOL!!! I wonder who those came from? God Bless you, I don't hold you in any ill will but I just think this situation stinks and is stupid.
    I didn't realize Stanley was banned. Thats disappointing 
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline bodeens

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1513
    • Reputation: +804/-160
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #148 on: January 02, 2022, 10:19:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I didn't realize Stanley was banned. Thats disappointing
    I pointed out he wouldn't ban Xavier for explicit heresy either. He made us beg to ban him. So RE is more dangerous to the Faith than Mother Teresa, Faustina, Bayside, clown ecclesiology, the new "mass" etc? What's the standard here?
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline Dingbat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 173
    • Reputation: +111/-16
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Marijuana use sinful for Catholics?
    « Reply #149 on: January 02, 2022, 10:20:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I didn't realize Stanley was banned. Thats disappointing
    Yes, it was very sudden.