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Author Topic: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority  (Read 9538 times)

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Offline cassini

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Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2021, 12:45:17 PM »
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  • So you defend Newman in an unspecified way... just “He’s a Cardinal”.

    Do you believe he’s a saint?

    I accuse Card Newman of being a marrano and I can prove from his own writings he acted in a way to undermine both the Papacy and the Church.

    This forum’s archives contain reams of evidence on Newman.

    It is a fact that modernism in the Catholioc church began in the mid 1800s.

    ‘Satan uniquely entered the Catholic Church at some point over the last century, or even before. For over a century, the organizers of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Liberalism, and Modernism infiltrated the Catholic Church in order to change her doctrine, her liturgy, and her mission from something supernatural to something secular.’ (Taylor Marshall, LifeSiteNews, October 4, 2019)

    This 'heresy of all heresies' began in the Church when Pope Pius VII, by giving an imprimatur to a book claiming heliocentrism as a proven order of the universe in 1820, INFERRED that the literal geocentrism of Scripture, (one held by all the Fathers, the Council of Trent, one defined and declared as formal heresy by Pope Paul V and defended as absolute by Pope Urban VIII as contrary to Scripture) was now the true meaning of Scripture. Pope Gregory XVI in 1835 confirmed this change of Scripture applied to all when he removed all such heliocentric books from the Index.

    By 1820, this same heliocentrism had long be proposed by science as having EVOLVED from atoms and dust over millions of years. Now once popes gave the thumbs up to heliocentrism that included these scientific theoriers of the Enlightenment by then, further changes to Genesis in particular were proposed by 'Biblical Scholars.' Having given in to the heliocentric hoax, churchmen were now unable to defend the Bible against such changes out of FEAR that they would be 'proven wrong' by science once again.

    Such were the 'evolutionary' changes to Scripture that Pope Leo XIII, in 1893,  had to try to stop the rot in Providentissiomus deus. But because his predecessors had been fooled into believing the traditional literal 'moving-sun' of Scripture really meant a fixed-sun, he had to go along with this 'science can correct previous understandings in the Bible.' In other words, not only could Leo XIII not stop the evolution of Scripture, but he actually gave a further licence to science if it could show changes in Scripture were needed. Remember, the heliocentrism inferred by Pope Pius VII to be true science, was an evolved heliocentrism and all that went with it including Darwin's evolution that had not been condemned for fear of anotherr Galileo 'shaming.'

    Now I have put this up before but do so again to show the part Jogn Henry Newton had in the 'evolving' of the Scriptures and Catholic doctrine that Pope Pius X called the greatest threat to Catholicism. This will come in my next post 
     

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #91 on: October 28, 2021, 12:59:29 PM »
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  • Card Newman was a prolific writer who hung himself multiple times by his own letters, way after he converted.

    His canonization was surely a time of celebration and laughs in Lodges all over the world.

    Having abandoned and deprived the Catholic Church of its scholastic exegeses and its theologically based metaphysics by embracing heliocentrism and a natural theory of origins, Teilhard de Chardin saw the need to create a new theology inspired by the ‘findings of science.’ This kind of ‘development of doctrine,’ as it is often called, was first championed within Catholicism by the likes of John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a Protestant convert, later made a cardinal of the Catholic Church, a boastful ‘scholar’ who embraced Galileoism and Darwinism in his works as they agreed with his thinking about ‘change and development.’ Notre Dame University’s Church Life Journal called Newman ‘the patron saint of evolution.’ Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-1890), is often referred to as ‘a pioneer and prophet of Vatican Council II,’ a title we could not disagree with.

    'Echoing Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical, the same Vatican II declared: “the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching firmly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into the sacred writings for the sake of our salvation.” The Constitution owes much of course, to the great work of Catholic scholars since the beginning of the 20th century. If the theologians who advised the Inquisition and who opposed Galileo could have had the benefit of the Vatican II’s teaching, there might never have been a Galileo case. Indeed, if they could have had the benefit of Cardinal Henry Newman’s thinking, there might never have been a Galileo case.-  Cardinal Daly, The Minding of Planet Earth, 2000. 

    If one senior churchman and renowned intellectual were to be singled out as a leading and influential Galilean and Darwinian apologist in the post U-turn era it was this man. Cardinal John Henry Newman, we are told in numerous books and articles on him, had a keen interest in science and the contemporary debates on the relation between faith and reason. At Oxford he read for honours in both classics and mathematics. For his final examination he studied geology geometry, astronomy, mineralogy and Sir Isaac Newton’s incomprehensible Principia. Newman, we see, must have been very familiar with the ‘science’ they claimed falsified the geocentric doctrine of the Church of the seventeenth century, yet with all his education, even he couldn’t see through the ‘proof’ scam. When he stood for the Oriel Fellowship, he confided to his father that; ‘Few have ever attained the facility and comprehension which I arrived at from the regularity and constancy of my reading and the laborious and nerve-bracing and fancy-repressing study of mathematics, which has been my principal subject.’  John Henry Newman, who even pretended he understood Newton’s Principia, here imitates Galileo, who also boasted of his superior talents.

    Henry Newman converted to the Catholic faith in 1845 and was ordained a priest in 1847. After that he was made rector of the proposed new Catholic University in Ireland where he gave a series of discourses on faith and science that resulted in his book The Idea of a University (1852). In a composition of May 24 1861, Newman adduced the case of Galileo as one of the critical points towards maturing on the part of Catholic Scripture-scholars, thus confirming this point of our synthesis; that the modernising of Biblical meaning in the light of the false science that began when Churchmen of the 19th century abandoned the geocentric revelation in the Bible. In his lectures in Dublin University, and in subsequent writings, Newman explored the relation between theology and the natural sciences, as he saw it. In another book written by Phyllis Hodgson, Towards a Grammar of Assent (1870), in which he writes; ‘Henry Newman explored the ways we’ve come to believe, and found instructive similarities between theology and science, and indeed everyday beliefs as well. We rarely believe because of a logical demonstration, but much more frequently by the convergence of probabilities. This is the case in our everyday affairs, and also in science and religion.’ Arising from all these ‘probabilities,’ Newman thought he was competent to resolve the Galileo case. In trying to do so this man raised the retreat from Biblical geocentrism to a new level of sophistry.

    ‘As the Copernican system first made progress... it was generally received... as a truth of Revelation, that the Earth was stationary, and that the sun, fixed in a solid firmament, whirled round the Earth. After a little time, however, and on full consideration, it was found that the Church had decided next to nothing on questions such as these... it surely is a very remarkable feat, considering how widely and how long one certain interpretation of these physical statements in Scripture had been received by Catholics, that the Church should not have formally acknowledged it... Nor was this escape a mere accident, but rather the result of providential superintendence.’ - Newman: The Idea of a University, 1852, p.468.

    Here we see Henry Newman needed no abrogation to dismiss the 1616 papal ruling as deciding ‘next to nothing.’ Nor did it occur to him that if providential superintendence was present at all during the Galileo case, would he as a Catholic convert not think it more prudent of God to side with His Church, with the interpretation of the Fathers and prevent His pope in 1616 when defining and declaring Galileoism formal heresy in the first place? Of course it would, as no doubt every true Catholic since 1820 at least, has wished. Of all the manoeuvres used by the Earthmovers to try to save the Church from its own ‘erroneous’ decrees, as they saw it, this has to be the most reckless; picking and choosing of the most convenient place for God’s divine input. (aal from the Book The Earthmovers)

     To be continued'



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #92 on: October 28, 2021, 01:04:09 PM »
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  • Pope Pius X supported Card Newman-- that is good enough for moi.

    Henry Newman’s Galileo, Revelation, and the Educated Man. (1861)

    ‘One of the characteristics of the day is the renewal of that collision between men of science and believers in Revelation, and of that uneasiness in the public mind as to its results, which are found in the history of the 17th century. Then, Galileo raised the jealousy of Catholics in Italy; but now in England the religious portion of the community, be they Catholic or not, is startled at the discoveries or speculations of geologists, natural historians and linguists. Of course I am speaking, as regards both dates, of the educated classes, of those whose minds have been sufficiently opened to understand the nature of proof, who have a right to ask questions and to weigh the answers given to them. It was of such, we must reasonably suppose, that Father Commissary was tender in 1637 [1633], and to such he allied in his conversation with Galileo, as he took him in his carriage to the Holy Office. “As we went along,” says Galileo, “he put many questions to me, and showed an earnestness that I should repair the scandal, which I had given to the whole of Italy, by maintaining the opinion of the motion of the Earth; and for all the solid and mathematical reasons which I presented to him, he did but reply to me: “Terra autem in aeternum stabit,’ because ‘Terra autem in aeternum stat,’ as Scripture says.” There could not be a greater shock to religious minds of that day than Galileo’s doctrine, whether they at once rejected it as contrary to the faith, or listened to the arguments by which he enforced it. The feeling was strong enough to effect Galileo’s compulsory recantation, though a pope was then on the throne who was personally friendly to him. Two Sacred Congregations represented the popular voice and passed decrees against the philosopher, which were in force down to the years 1822 and 1837 [1820-35]. Such an alarm never can occur again, for the very reason that it has occurred once. At least, for myself, I can say that, had I been brought up in the belief of the immobility of the Earth as though a dogma of Revelation, and had associated it in my mind with the incommunicable dignity of man among created things, with the destinies of the human race, with the locality of purgatory and hell, and other Christian doctrines, and then for the first time had heard Galileo’s thesis, and, moreover, the prospect held out to me that perhaps there were myriads of globes like our own all filled with rational creatures as worthy of the Creator’s regard as we are, I should have been at once indignant at its presumption and frightened at its speciousness, as I never can be at any parallel novelties in other human sciences bearing on religion; no, not though I found probable reasons for thinking the first chapters of Genesis were not of an economical character, that there was a pre-Adamite race of rational animals, or that we are now 20,000 years from Noah. For that past controversy and its issue have taught me beyond all mistake, that men of the greatest theological knowledge may firmly believe that scientific conclusions are contrary to the Word of God, when they are not so, and pronounce that to be heresy which is truth. It has taught me, that Scripture is not inspired to convey mere secular knowledge, whether about the heaven or the Earth, or the race of man; and that I need not fear for Revelation whatever truths may be brought to light by means of observation and experience out of the world of phenomena which environ us. And I seem to myself here to be speaking under the protection and sanction of the Sacred Congregation of the Index itself, which has since the time of Galileo prescribed to itself a line of action, indication of its fearlessness of any results which may happen to religion from physical sciences…. One great lesson surely, if no other, is taught by the history of theological controversy since the 16th century: moderation to the assailant, equanimity to the assailed, and that as regards geological and ethnological conclusions as well as astronomical. But there is more than this to give us confidence in this matter. Consider then the case before us: Galileo on his knees abjured the heresy that the Earth moved [no, that the sun did not move around the Earth]; but the course of human thought, of observation, investigation and induction, could not be stayed; it went on and had its way. It penetrated and ran through the Catholic world as well as through the nations external to it. And then at length, in our own day, the doctrine, which was the subject of it, was found to be so harmless in a religious point of view, that the books advocating it were taken off the Index, and the prohibition to print and publish the like was withdrawn. But of course the investigation has gone further, and done, or is now even doing, some positive service to the cause which it was accused of opposing. It is on the way to restore to the Earth that prerogative and pre-eminence in the creation which it was thought to compromise. Thus investigation which Catholics would have suppressed as dangerous, when, in spite of them, it has had its course, results in conclusions favourable to their cause. How little then need we fear the free exercise of reason! How injurious is the suspicion entertained of it by religious men. How true it is that nature and revelation are but two separate communications from the same infinite Truth. Nor is this all. Much has been said of late years of the dangerous tendency of geological speculations or researches. Well, what harm have they done to the Christian cause, others must say who are more qualified than I am to determine; but on one point, that is the point before us, I observe it is acting on the side of Christian belief. In answer to the supposed improbability of their being planets with rational inhabitants, considering that our globe has such, geology teaches us that, in fact, whatever our religion may accidentally teach us to hope or fear about other worlds, in this world at least, long ages past, we had either no inhabitants at all, or none but those rude and vast brutal forms, which could perform no intelligent homage and service to their Creator. Thus one order of spiritual researches bears upon another, and that in the interest or service of Christianity; and supposing, as some persons seem to believe in their hearts, that these researches are all in the hands of the enemy of God, we have the observable phenomenon of Satan casting out Satan and restoring the balance of physical arguments in favour of Revelation. Now let us suppose that the influences which were in the ascendant throughout Italy in 1637 [1633] had succeeded in repressing any free investigation on the question of the motion of the Earth. The mind of the educated class would have not the less felt that it was a question, and would have been haunted, and would have been poisoned, by the misgiving that there was some real danger to Revelation in the investigation; for otherwise the ecclesiastical authorities would not have forbidden it. There would have been in the Catholic community a mass of irritated, ill-tempered, feverish and festering suspicion, engendering general scepticism and hatred of the priesthood, and relieving itself in a sort of tacit Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, of which secret societies are the development, and then in sudden outbreaks perhaps of violence and blasphemy. Protestantism is a dismal evil; but in this respect Providence has overruled it for the good. It has, by allowing free inquiry in science, destroyed a bugbear, and thereby saved Catholics so far from the misery of hollow profession and secret infidelity. I think, then, I must say distinctly that I have no sympathy at all in that policy, which will not look difficulties or apparent difficulties in the face, and puts off the evil day of considering them as long as it can.  It is the way of politicians who live from hand to mouth, only careful that the existing state of things should last their time. If I find that scientific inquiries are running counter against certain theological opinions, it is not expedient to refuse to examine whether these opinions are well founded, merely because those inquiries have not yet reached their issue or attained a triumphant success. The history of Galileo is the proof of it. Are we not at a disadvantage as regards that history? Why, except because our theologians [and all the Fathers of the Church], instead of cautiously examining what Scripture, that is, the Written Word of God, really said, thought it better to put down with a high hand the astronomical views which were opposed to its popular interpretation? The contrary course was pursued in our own day; but what is not against the faith now, was not against the faith three centuries ago; yet Galileo was forced to pronounce his opinions a heresy. It might not indeed have been prudent to have done in 1637 [1633] what was done in 1822 [1820]; but, though in the former date it might have been unjustifiable to allow the free publication of his treatises with the sanction of the Church, that does not show that it was justifiable to pronounce that they were against the faith and to enforce the abjuration. I am not certain that I might not go further and advocate the full liberty to teach the motion of the Earth, as a philosophical truth, not only now, but even three centuries ago. The Father Commissary said it was a scandal to the whole of Italy; that is, I suppose, an offence, a shock, a perplexity. This might be, but there was a class, whose claims to consideration are too little regarded now, and were passed over then. I mean the educated class; to them the prohibition would be a real scandal in the true meaning of the word, an occasion of their falling. Men who have sharpened their intellects by exercise and study anticipate the conclusions of the many by some centuries. If the tone of public opinion in 1822 [1820] called for a withdrawal of the prohibition at Trent of the Earth’s movement, the condition of the able and educated called for it in Galileo’s age; and it is as clear to me that their spiritual state ought to be consulted for, as it is difficult to say why in fact it is so often is not. They are tenderly to be regarded for their own sake; they are to be respected and conciliated for the sake of their influence upon other classes. I cannot help feeling that, in high circles, the Church is sometimes looked upon as made up of the hierarchy and the poor, and that the educated portion, men and women, are viewed as a difficulty, an encuмbrance, as the seat and source of heresy, as almost aliens to the Catholic body, whom it would be a great gain, if possible, to annihilate. For all these reasons, I cannot agree with those who would have us stand by what is probably or possibly erroneous, as if it were dogma, till it is acknowledged on all hands, by the force of demonstrations to be actually such. If she affirms, as I do not think she will affirm, that everything was made and finished in a moment though Scripture seems to say otherwise, and though science seems to prove otherwise, I affirm it too, and with an inward and sincere assent.  And, as her word is to be believed, so her command is to be obeyed. I am as willing then to be silenced on doctrinal matters which are not of faith as to be taught in matters which are. It would be nothing else than a great gain to be rid of the anxiety which haunts a person circuмstanced as I am, lest, by keeping silence on points as that on which I have begun to speak, I should perchance be hiding my talent in a napkin..’ --- John Henry Newman.

    Comment:

    Now if ever one wanted a brief account of how the Galilean reformation allowed Modernism to enter the womb of the Catholic Church, there it is, the worst of its errors accepted one after the other. If one were to search all the comments on the Galileo case throughout history, one could not find a better example of the damage that 1758-1835 U-turn allowed by popes did to Biblical exegesis and thus Catholic faith and reason. Feeling protected by his belief in heliocentrism and Darwin’s evolution of all ‘creation,’ we see his pride in the ‘science’ they believed had shown Genesis was ‘unscientific’ with its myths. Newman, who was even aware ‘of the prohibition at Trent of the Earth’s movement,’ confirms how the Galilean U-turn placed Biblical exegesis under the auspices of ‘scientific probabilities,’ even the existence of monkey to man evolution on Earth, and a similar heretical evolution possible on ‘other worlds’ when he writes about; ‘the supposed improbability of their being planets with rational inhabitants,’ shows how those other Pythagorean heresies came back into play as Pope Paul V and Pope Urban VIII anticipated if the Galilean reformation took hold. (TE)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #93 on: October 28, 2021, 01:11:40 PM »
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  • Perhaps the most controversial comment of Newman’s was when he said had he been around at the time of Galileo he would have taken the liberty to teach what was defined at the time as formal heresy. He would have stood side by side with Galileo. Here he sets himself up as a superior theologian and philosopher than Cardinal Bellarmine. He also claimed ‘evil’ Protestants opened up the truth of faith and reason by ‘overruling’ the Church’s 1616 condemnation of heliocentrism; again, inferring Providence had a hand in this co-operation ‘for the good.’

    The Church of 1616 and 1633 defended the Biblical geocentrism on the basis of the literal and only way of reading such definitive references to an orbiting sun in Scripture, just as all the Fathers did, not by way of any astronomical or ‘popular’ view. As regards that ‘harmless’ rejection of the 1616 decree turning out to be ‘advantageous,’ well that too was Modernism personified. Nothing has done more to eliminate the faith of millions on Earth than the effects of the victory of science-so-called over the immediate supernatural creation of all by God in the beginning. Many a survey of the millions who have rejected faith in God their Creator have given their belief in ‘evolutionary science’ as the main reason why they no longer believe.

    ‘The history of Galileo is the proof of it.  Are we not at a disadvantage as regards that history? Why, except because our theologians, instead of cautiously examining what Scripture, that is, the Written Word of God, really said, thought it better to put down with a high hand the astronomical views which were opposed to its popular interpretation?’ --- Philosophical Readings on Cardinal John Henry Newman.


    Is this then a legacy worthy of a man thought to be a great Catholic convert scholar, learned in science, professing to understand the nature of proof, a man now considered to be elevated on par with someone like St Robert Bellarmine, a man to look up to and admire as a saint of the Catholic Church?

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #94 on: October 28, 2021, 02:23:24 PM »
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  • Mary Ball Martinez was a journalist and Vatican observer. Her book Undermining of the Catholic Church discusses the unusual tutelage of Rampolla's protégés, Montini and Pacelli, both were also connected to the Bauer "Rothschild" banking dynasty.

    pdf here:  http://www.olvrc.com/reference/general/docuмents/UnderminingOfTheCatholicChurch.pdf
    Mrs Martinez has no credibility w/ moi...
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #95 on: October 28, 2021, 05:27:35 PM »
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  • Beautiful rundown on Card Jewman Cassini.

    Viewing a pro-Newman canonization advertisement made by Novus ordo Brits, I learned that he had a large writer’s workshop.  

    So prolific a writer was he that can’t help but think his marrano mission was to create as much confusion as he could from his high office.

    I also wouldn’t doubt if he bought his office. His daddy was a banker and jew-religious have a record for doing that (anti-Pope Anacletus II, 1130AD).
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #96 on: October 28, 2021, 08:15:42 PM »
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  • :laugh1::laugh2:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #97 on: October 28, 2021, 08:59:05 PM »
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  • :laugh1::laugh2:

    I recall Roscoe trying to sell us on the idea that crypto-jew Trump was a Catholic :jester:

    Old Roscoe Rampolla...

    just another troll with different schtik.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #98 on: October 28, 2021, 11:55:00 PM »
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  • :laugh1::laugh2::laugh1::laugh2:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #99 on: October 29, 2021, 05:24:00 AM »
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  • The Church of 1616 and 1633 defended the Biblical geocentrism on the basis of the literal and only way of reading such definitive references to an orbiting sun in Scripture, ...

    "The Church" did not defend the "Biblical geocentrism". 
    .
    Geocentrism is NOT a doctrine of the Church.  The Fathers were NOT the Church, and NOT infallible, sorry.
    .
    "Biblical geocentrism" does NOT exist.  The Sun also "comes up" in the morning and "goes down" in the evening on MARS, and SATURN and JUPITER also. 
    .
    Pope Pius V never put his signature on a docuмent describing Geocentrism and he never sent a letter to all the bishops of the world, informing them of a new infallible teaching.
    .
    Sorry, Cassini.  Your are giving out incomplete information.  For all practical purposes, you are a LIAR.
    .
    Call me all the names you want.  That does not prove me wrong. 
    .
    Heliocentrism is NOT a heresy, because Geocentrism is NOT a "matter of faith" and therefore CANNOT be an infallible teaching.



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #100 on: October 29, 2021, 06:02:26 AM »
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  • "The Church" did not defend the "Biblical geocentrism". 
    .
    Geocentrism is NOT a doctrine of the Church.  The Fathers were NOT the Church, and NOT infallible, sorry.
    .
    "Biblical geocentrism" does NOT exist.  The Sun also "comes up" in the morning and "goes down" in the evening on MARS, and SATURN and JUPITER also. 
    .
    Pope Pius V never put his signature on a docuмent describing Geocentrism and he never sent a letter to all the bishops of the world, informing them of a new infallible teaching.
    .
    Sorry, Cassini.  Your are giving out incomplete information.  For all practical purposes, you are a LIAR.
    .
    Call me all the names you want.  That does not prove me wrong. 
    .
    Heliocentrism is NOT a heresy, because Geocentrism is NOT a "matter of faith" and therefore CANNOT be an infallible teaching.

    First of all apollo I do not call people names, I deal with the facts and from whom they come. Let me answer all your points above as quickly as possible in the order you put them.

    Apollo V Church history; "The Church" did not defend the "Biblical geocentrism".
    On February 24th 1616 the assessments were declared:
    (1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical [denial of a revelation by God] inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by [all] the Fathers and theologians.”
    (2) “That the Earth is not the centre of the world, and moves as a whole, and also with a diurnal movement,” was unanimously declared “to deserve the same censure philosophically, and, theologically considered to be at least erroneous in faith.”

    Holy Office 1633 dictated by Pope Urban VIII: 'The sentence continued: “Invoking, then, the most holy Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that of His most glorious Mother Mary ever Virgin, by this our definitive sentence we say, pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo, on account of these things proved against you by docuмentary evidence, and which have been confessed by you as aforesaid, have rendered yourself to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy,  that is, of having believed and held a doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures -to wit, that the sun is in the centre of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the Earth moves, and is not the centre of the universe; and that an opinion can be held and defended as probable after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to Holy Scripture.'

    Apollo V St Thomas Aquinas: 'Geocentrism is NOT a doctrine of the Church.'
    ‘This doctrine [of geocentrism] was of the highest respectability: it had been developed at a very early period, and had been elaborated until it accounted well for the apparent movements of the heavenly bodies; its final name, “Ptolemaic theory,” carried weight; and, having thus come from antiquity into the Christian world, St Clement of Alexandria demonstrated that the altar in the Jєωιѕн Tabernacle was “a symbol of the Earth placed in the middle of the universe:” nothing more was needed; the geocentric theory was fully adopted by the Church and universally held to agree with the letter and spirit of Scripture. Wrought into this foundation, and based upon it, there was developed in the Middle Ages, mainly out of fragments of Chaldean and other early theories preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures, a new sacred system of astronomy, which became one of the great treasures of the universal Church – the last word of revelation. Three great men mainly reared this structure. First was the unknown who gave to the world the treatises ascribed to Dionysius the Areopagite. It was unhesitatingly believed that these were the work of St Paul’s Athenian convert, and therefore virtually of St Paul himself.  They were then considered a treasure of inspiration, and an emperor of the East sent them to an emperor of the West as the most worthy of gifts. In the ninth century they were widely circulated in Western Europe, and became a fruitful source of thought especially on the whole celestial hierarchy. Thus the old ideas of astronomy were vastly developed, and the heavenly hosts were classed and named in accordance with indications scattered through the sacred Scriptures. 

    ‘The next of these three great theologians was Peter Lombard, Professor at the University of Paris. About the middle of the twelfth century, he gave forth his collection of Sentences, or statements by the Fathers, and this remained until the end of the Middle Ages the universal manual of theology. In it was especially developed the theological view of man’s relation to the universe. The author tells the world: “Just as man is made for the sake of God – that is, that he may serve Him, - so the universe is made for the sake of man, that is, that it may serve him; therefore is man placed at the middle point of the universe that he may both serve and be served.” The vast significance of this view, and its power in resisting any real astronomical science, we shall see, especially in the time of Galileo. The great triad of thinkers culminated in St Thomas Aquinas – the sainted theologian, the glory of the mediaeval Church, the ‘Angelic Doctor,’ the most marvellous intellect since Aristotle; he to whom it was believed that an image of the crucified had spoken words praising his writings. Large of mind, strong, acute, yet just – even more than just – to his opponents, he gave forth, in the latter half of the thirteenth century, his Cyclopaedia of Theology, the Summa Theologica. In this St Thomas carried the sacred theory of the universe to its full development. With great power and clearness, he brought the whole vast system, material and spiritual, into its relations to God and man.

    More to come


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #101 on: October 29, 2021, 06:20:04 AM »
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  • . Geocentrism is NOT a doctrine of the Church.  The Fathers were NOT the Church, and NOT infallible, sorry.
    .

    Apollo V The Fathers:  The Fathers were NOT the Church, and NOT infallible, sorry.

    1616 decree: @and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by the Fathers and theologians.”

    ‘The Vulgate Editions of the Bible is Accepted and the Method Prescribed for the Interpretation of Sacred Scripture, etc.

    Furthermore, in order to curb imprudent clever persons, the synod decrees that no one who relies on his own judgment in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, and that no one who distorts the Sacred Scripture according to his own opinions, shall dare to interpret the said Sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which is held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge regarding the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers, even though interpretations of this kind were never intended to be brought to light. Let those who shall oppose this be reported by their ordinaries and be punished with the penalties prescribed by law.’ -- (Denzinger – 783/786)

    In the wake of the Council of Trent came The Catechism of the Council of Trent for Parish Priests, issued by order and approval by Pope Pius V. Of interest to this synthesis is the teaching on the Creed that begins so:


    ‘I Believe in God, Almighty Father, Creator of Heaven and Earth. He followed no external form or model; but contemplating, and as it were imitating, the universal model contained in the divine intelligence, the supreme Architect, with infinite wisdom and power – attributes peculiar to the Divinity – created all things in the beginning. He spoke and they were made… The words heaven and Earth include all things that the heavens and the Earth contain; for besides the heavens, which the Prophet has called the works of His fingers, He also gave to the sun its brilliancy, and to the moon and stars their beauty; and that they may be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years. He so ordered the celestial bodies in a certain and uniform course that nothing varies more than their continual revolution, while nothing is more fixed than their variety…. The Earth also God commanded to stand in the midst of the world, rooted in its own foundations [Psa. 103:5: You fixed the Earth upon its foundations, not to be moved forever], and made the mountains ascend, and the plains descend into the place that He had founded for them…. He next not only clothed and adorned it with trees and every variety of plants and flowers, but filled it, as He had already filled the air and water, with innumerable kinds of creatures…. Not only does God protect and govern all things by His Providence, but He also by an internal power impels to motion and action whatever moves and acts, and this in such a manner that, although He excludes not, He yet precedes the agency of secondary causes.’

    Vatican Council I:
    ‘But since the rules which the holy Synod of Trent salutary decreed concerning on the interpretation of Divine Scripture in order to restrain impetuous minds, are wrongly explained by certain men, We renewing the same decree, declare this to be its intention: that in matters of faith and morals pertaining to the instruction of Christian Doctrine, as must be considered as the true sense of Sacred Scripture which Holy Mother Church has held and holds, whose office it is to judge concerning the true understanding and interpretation of Sacred Scripture; and, for that reason, no one is permitted to interpret Scripture itself contrary to this sense, or even contrary to the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.’ (Vatican 1, Denz. 1788)


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #102 on: October 29, 2021, 06:39:43 AM »
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  • .
    Pope Pius V never put his signature on a docuмent describing Geocentrism and he never sent a letter to all the bishops of the world, informing them of a new infallible teaching.
    .
    Sorry, Cassini.  Your are giving out incomplete information.  For all practical purposes, you are a LIAR.
    .

    Pope Pius V never put his signature on a docuмent describing Geocentrism 
    Fr Roberts in his 1870 book dismissed this 'never put his signature to the decree of 1616.'

    ' but it is demonstrably indefensible. As I pointed out, the absence of the clause, on which so much stress is laid, is to be accounted for, neither by accident, nor by a special Providence in favour of Ultramontane opinions, but by the simple circuмstance that the practice of affixing such notices to Congregational decrees is, comparatively speaking, a recent one, and was not observed in the case of any decree until many years after Galileo’s time.'

    and he never sent a letter to all the bishops of the world, informing them of a new infallible teaching.

    ‘In the summer of 1633, all papal nuncios in Europe and all local inquisitors in Italy received from the Roman Inquisition copies of the sentence against Galileo and his abjuration, together with orders to publicize them. Such publicity [plus posters and flyers] was unprecedented in the annals of the Inquisition and never repeated.’ ---M. A. Finocchiaro’s Retrying Galileo, p.26.  

    “To your vicars, that you and all professors of philosophy and mathematics may have knowledge of it, that they may know why we proceeded against the said Galileo, and recognise the gravity of the error in order that they may avoid it, and thus not incur the penalties which they would have to suffer if they fell into the same [heresy].”’ ---   Fr Roberts ends with quote from Gebler’s Galileo Galilei, London, 1879.

    In many cases professors of philosophy, mathematics, physics, and astronomy were assembled like their students at roll call and the trial docuмents read to them. Theologians and scholars were then urged to use their learning to show Galileoism to be a serious heresy.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #103 on: October 29, 2021, 06:54:44 AM »
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  • "Biblical geocentrism" does NOT exist.  The Sun also "comes up" in the morning and "goes down" in the evening on MARS, and SATURN and JUPITER also. 
    .
    Sorry, Cassini.  Your are giving out incomplete information.  For all practical purposes, you are a LIAR.

    Bellarmine’s 1615 Letter to Foscarini:

    ‘Second. I say that, as you know, the Council of Trent prohibits expounding the Scriptures contrary to the common agreement of the holy Fathers. And if Your Reverence would read not only the Fathers but also the commentaries of modern writers on Genesis, Psalms, Ecclesiastes and Josue, you would find that all agree in explaining literally (ad litteram) that the sun is in the heavens and moves swiftly around the Earth, and that the Earth is far from the heavens and stands immobile in the centre of the universe. Now consider whether in all prudence the Church could encourage giving to Scripture a sense contrary to the holy Fathers and all the Latin and Greek commentators. Nor may it be answered that this [geocentrism] is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’ ---Letter to Foscarini, published by Prof. Dom. Berti in his work Copernico… Rome, 1876. Translation from Galileo, Science and the Church by Jerome Langford, New York, Desclee, 1966, pp.60, 63

    Now apollo, if you think you know better than St Robert Bellarmine then go tell someone else not readers on Catholic Info.

    Finally, I quote you above as writing: 'Pope Pius V never put his signature on a docuмent describing Geocentrism and he never sent a letter to all the bishops of the world, informing them of a new infallible teaching.' Well you were right all along. It was Pope Paul V who ordfered the 1616 decree to be published by the Index.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #104 on: December 08, 2021, 01:06:20 AM »
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  • I recall Roscoe trying to sell us on the idea that crypto-Jєω Trump was a Catholic :jester:

    Old Roscoe Rampolla...

    just another troll with different schtik.
    Pls provide source for the above allegation?:popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'