Author Topic: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority  (Read 2538 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2021, 08:35:37 PM »
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  • :facepalm:
    No comprende-- Are you saying that I am wrong & Pius IX didn't say that( I am The Church) or is Pius IX wrong or what exactly are you trying to say?
    :confused:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #46 on: October 25, 2021, 09:30:12 PM »
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  • You obviously don’t understand the context of Pius IX’s statement.  


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #47 on: October 26, 2021, 12:43:46 PM »
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  • Possibly you could explain it for us...?:popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #48 on: October 26, 2021, 02:22:41 PM »
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  • Bl Pope Pius IX made this statement ("I am the Church") in regards to his power to define the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, which he did define in 1854.  A few years prior to this statement and dogma, he was forced to escape Rome because of a revolution where the Prime Minister was αssαssιnαtҽd.  So, for context, 1) he said this having escaped a life-or-death situation, 2) he was aware of the infiltration in the Church, and 3) he was getting pushback from the Cardinals, some of whom were pushing the heresy of collegiality and telling him that he must wait to define the dogma when all the bishops/cardinals agreed on the definition.

    Vatican I and the doctrine of infallibility had not been defined (1870), so this pushback and call for the heretical collegiality/democracy of the Church is what prompted Bl Pius IX to lash out and correct the liberal Cardinal, when he shouted "I am the Church".  The point/context of the statement is that in matters of dogma/infallibility, the pope IS ALONE. 

    To be clear, Bl Pius IX was not saying the pope is all that matters, or the pope can do whatever he wants in the Church, or that he has no rules to follow or that he can change doctrine or the sacraments.  These matters are beyond his authority.  He was simply correcting liberal Cardinals on the matter/power of the Pope in relation to infallibility/doctrine, which had not yet been clarified at Vatican I.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #49 on: October 26, 2021, 02:44:08 PM »
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  • The very first line of the above response is WRONG. The "I am The Church" quote comes from the Vatican I Council. I would advise reading Fr Cuthbert's History Of The Vatican Council. :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #50 on: October 26, 2021, 02:50:28 PM »
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  • The article I read may have been wrong, but the point is the same:  He said "I am the Church" in regards to infallibility, when liberal cardinals were pushing collegiality/democracy.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #51 on: October 26, 2021, 04:22:54 PM »
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  • Thanks for reply but It is absurd to call Pope Leo a liberal... :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #52 on: October 26, 2021, 05:33:59 PM »
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  • Quote
    Thanks for reply but It is absurd to call Pope Leo a liberal...
    :facepalm:  That's not even close to what i'm saying.  Just forget it.


    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #53 on: October 26, 2021, 06:13:40 PM »
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  • I find the One Peter article quite interesting. I have suspected for quite a while that it was the liberals that pushed for this "ultra" in ultramontanist. 


    When you think about it, it makes sense. If the Alta Vendita is genuine, it plays into the hands of the liberals and their man in the chair of St Peter.
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #54 on: October 26, 2021, 06:53:32 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  That's not even close to what i'm saying.  Just forget it.
    Thanks but I am referring to the OP(Topic)-- not what you said...:popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #56 on: October 26, 2021, 11:05:07 PM »
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  • I find the One Peter article quite interesting. I have suspected for quite a while that it was the liberals that pushed for this "ultra" in ultramontanist.


    When you think about it, it makes sense. If the Alta Vendita is genuine, it plays into the hands of the liberals and their man in the chair of St Peter.
    :confused:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #57 on: October 26, 2021, 11:06:22 PM »
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  • :confused:
    Did you read the article? It explains it.
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #58 on: October 26, 2021, 11:07:24 PM »
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  • You obviously don’t understand the context of Pius IX’s statement. 
    Do you think Pope Leo XIII was( is) a 'liberal'? :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Leo XIII: The First Liberal Pope Who Went Beyond His Authority
    « Reply #59 on: October 26, 2021, 11:08:51 PM »
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  • Did you read the article? It explains it.
    Do you think Il Papa Leo XIII was (is) a ' liberal'? :popcorn:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


     

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