Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9

Author Topic: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science  (Read 3352 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2026, 11:40:42 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on September 20, 2026, 11:33:55 PM
The “old earth” theory means that God created the earth, the solar system and Adam/Eve in a mature state.  When God created all the plants in Eden, they weren’t in seed form which then had to grow.  He created all things as “adult”, mature and perfected.  Just like Adam/Eve.  Tradition tells us that Adam was created as a mature man, of the age of 33.
Hmmmm what does tradition say about the age of Eve?
Logged

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2026, 09:00:10 AM »
Quote from: OSanctissimus on September 20, 2026, 11:25:20 PM
St. Augustine -- while a saint and doctor of the Church -- is not all of the Church Fathers in unanimity, which is what is required for something to be considered actually heretical.
St. Cyprian: Suggested that each creation day corresponded to a period of one thousand years, directly linking the days of Genesis to the concept found in Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8.

All the other Doctors taught that a day in genesis was a literal 24 hour period, or that a day is some other time period not related to the sun.  But no Church Father taught that 1 day was millions of years.  Or even hundreds of thousands. 

There is zero foundation for modern evolution in Scripture.  All the Fathers agree that even if 1 day was a 1,000 years, God created everything instantaneously and perfectly, (not evolved, not in an imperfect state).  St Augustine said this is a core doctrine.  This completely destroys the idea of evolution.
Logged

Offline OSanctissimus

Re: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2026, 12:14:52 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on September 21, 2026, 09:00:10 AM
St. Cyprian: Suggested that each creation day corresponded to a period of one thousand years, directly linking the days of Genesis to the concept found in Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8.

All the other Doctors taught that a day in genesis was a literal 24 hour period, or that a day is some other time period not related to the sun.  But no Church Father taught that 1 day was millions of years.  Or even hundreds of thousands. 

There is zero foundation for modern evolution in Scripture.  All the Fathers agree that even if 1 day was a 1,000 years, God created everything instantaneously and perfectly, (not evolved, not in an imperfect state).  St Augustine said this is a core doctrine.  This completely destroys the idea of evolution.
Once again, no one here is advocating for evolution. 

Logged

Offline OSanctissimus

Re: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2026, 01:31:07 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on September 20, 2026, 11:33:55 PM
I’d also like to point out another (in a long list) of modern-man’s false dichotomies.  The debate of young earth vs old earth is not what most people think it is. 

Young earth means that creation itself is roughly 6,000 years old.  That’s supported by scripture, saints and many mystics.  It’s pretty darn near dogma. 

But then people hear of “old earth” and think that it means the opposite of the above (ie having to do with the years of creation, that the world is millions of years old).  That’s wrong. 

The “old earth” theory means that God created the earth, the solar system and Adam/Eve in a mature state.  When God created all the plants in Eden, they weren’t in seed form which then had to grow.  He created all things as “adult”, mature and perfected.  Just like Adam/Eve.  Tradition tells us that Adam was created as a mature man, of the age of 33.

Modern science assumes everything started from scratch, from seed form, from the beginning.  So when they study the sun, as an example, they’ll say — the increased solar flares are a sign of an aging sun.  (Which is true).  So the sun must be X billion years old if it’s already dying.  Of course, this all assumes that the sun was created with some type of long term life cycle.  Whereas God knows how long the earth will live and He created things for that time period and no longer.

So it all comes down to bad terminology.  “Young earth” is correct because the world and creation is only 6,000ish years old.  The term “old earth” should be changed to “mature earth” because it’s not the opposite of “young earth” at all.  A “mature earth” is also true (which is why St Kolbe) agreed with it (and why the Church Fathers taught) — that the earth was created in a mature state, with growth not needed, because God chose to create everything perfectly, which means no growth, no development, no improvement — perfect from day 1.  Which is why Adam/Eve were created as adults.

Both terms are correct.  It’s not either/or, the false dichotomy trap of modern man’s faulty mind.
This is a very good clarification.

One tiny issue, though, is the St. Maximillian has in his writings that he believed the stars were 140 millions years away. 

But I do think the term "mature earth" is very helpful, for the reasons you outlined.   Things were created in a mature, not seed, form.   I have reason to believe that perhaps reproduction was a result of the Fall too, and that creatures did not reproduce (or did not in the way that we have it today) prior to the Fall.
Logged

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Latest Kolbe Center re Fr. Robinson's The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2026, 03:21:55 PM »
Quote from: OSanctissimus on September 21, 2026, 12:14:52 PM
Once again, no one here is advocating for evolution.
Indirectly, you are opening to the door, if you aren't precise with your explanations.


Quote
*The CHURCH allows for both interpretations.  "Yom" as long period of time.  "Yom" as 24 hour period.
Your explanation is not precise and is wrong.  We are not allowed to think that "Yom" is ANY long period of time. 
Can we say that "yom" is longer than a day, because the use of the word 'day' was allegorical?  Yes.
Can we say that "yom" is longer than a day, i.e. a million years?  No.  Because that is no longer allegorical and destroys the meaning of the word 'day'.

God used the word DAY on purpose.  He knew what He was doing.  If He had meant that the period was very, very long, He would've used the word "age" or "period".  There were 7 periods/ages of creation.  But He didn't use those terms; He used "day".

If you want to say that 'day' is an allegory, you still have to define it so as not to destroy the notion of the word.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9
« previous next »