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Author Topic: Ken Hovind  (Read 686 times)

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Offline klasG4e

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Ken Hovind
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:52:36 PM »
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  • Why do you think the Wikipedia page on Ken Hovind is relatively huge for someone who is relatively unknown and unheard of by the vast majority of the American public?  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind .

    As you can see, he clocks in with 179 references.  His page is bigger than various historical and contemporary individuals who you might well think would rate much bigger (at least bigger than Hovind) entries on Wikipedia.  By a quick comparison you could click on some of the people over at Fox News, for example.  They are found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News#Program_hosts.

    I think you will be amazed at the difference in coverage between someone like Hovind and many other public figures.  I know of no one who is so relatively unknown as Hovind who has anywhere near such a big entry on Wikipedia.

    What was it about Ken Hovind that drove Wikipedia to smear and try to utterly destroy his reputation to the extent they have done?  A big clue (if not most of the answer itself) I think can be found in not only why it did that but also why the legal system treated him so harshly in watching what he was doing so effectively before he went to prison:



    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 08:50:11 PM »
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  • I would caution you not to read much from the sizes of wikipedia articles. Many important topics have short articles there and many minor topics have well-developed articles. The main reason is that wikipedia is user-generated content, and the users write what they want to write about. Controversial topics can generate that interest, but there are also very well developed articles on the non-controversial popular culture. On the other hand, important people from non-English-speaking countries often have poorly developed articles.

    Another reason is that smaller topics (minor or more focused) are easier for a non-expert to develop a complete article with reasonable emphasis on all its aspects. This tends to appeal to the better writers on wikipedia.

    An encyclopedia written by paid experts would have more balanced development.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 09:22:19 PM »
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  • I would caution you not to read much from the sizes of wikipedia articles. Many important topics have short articles there and many minor topics have well-developed articles. The main reason is that wikipedia is user-generated content, and the users write what they want to write about. Controversial topics can generate that interest, but there are also very well developed articles on the non-controversial popular culture. On the other hand, important people from non-English-speaking countries often have poorly developed articles.

    Another reason is that smaller topics (minor or more focused) are easier for a non-expert to develop a complete article with reasonable emphasis on all its aspects. This tends to appeal to the better writers on wikipedia.

    An encyclopedia written by paid experts would have more balanced development.

    I hear what you are saying, but I strongly tend to believe that their is a sinister element at play.  Wikipedia in general has a distinctly anti-Christian (and pro-Jєωιѕн) bias which plays up to the "prince of this world" (John 12:31) and down to the Prince of Peace.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #3 on: August 05, 2018, 10:12:03 PM »
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  • Ken Hovind is an excellent resource for creationism and arguments against evolution.

    That is all I'd seek him out for, but that's still something.
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #4 on: August 05, 2018, 10:21:40 PM »
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  • I hear what you are saying, but I strongly tend to believe that their is a sinister element at play.  Wikipedia in general has a distinctly anti-Christian (and pro-Jєωιѕн) bias which plays up to the "prince of this world" (John 12:31) and down to the Prince of Peace.

    I agree.

    But then: Hovind, rejecting the bride of Christ, rejects the Son and the Father.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #5 on: August 05, 2018, 10:30:02 PM »
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  • I agree.

    But then: Hovind, rejecting the bride of Christ, rejects the Son and the Father.
    Nevertheless, if I were the principal of a Traditional Catholic school I'd invite Ken Hovind to speak at my school on the topic of creation/evolution in a heartbeat (assuming our school could afford it, and he was taking new speaking engagements)

    The idea that Traditional Catholics must only consume media (watch videos, read articles, etc.) written by Traditional Catholics in the Resistance, holding the recognize-and-resist position and loyal to Bishop Williamson is RIDICULOUS. Your shelf would have 1 book on it, and you would not read or watch anything.

    The same goes for which stores we patronize, or what businesses we can work in. If we were similarly strict about what businesses we patronized or worked at, we would starve and have to live like animals, and we would all be unemployed.

    Tradition is just too small a pool, and it has very, very little productive capability (factories, businesses) as a whole. If you could measure the value of what is produced per 1000 people (kind of like GDP), I'd bet money that Trads would come out near the bottom. Trads probably own fewer businesses and factories per capita than just about every social group, except maybe Gypsies over 80 years old.

    This is similar to what was discussed in another thread. With the level of rejection of ambition/success/The World by most Trad Catholics, there should be great saints all over the place. But there aren't. Instead, you find worldliness, apathy, and ignorance -- even at the smallest and most fervent of Trad chapels. It's an epidemic. 

    In other words, it's a tragedy that many Trads not only fail when they are measured by the World's standards, but they also fail when measured by Traditional Catholic standards (sanctity, knowledge, mortification, fervor, apostolic zeal)

    Back to the original topic...

    Obviously even non-Catholics can be consulted and patronized when the goal is to learn trigonometry, for example. I study programming topics from atheists and agnostics on a near daily basis.
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #6 on: August 05, 2018, 10:40:11 PM »
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  • @Matthew

    I mostly agree. Today, we have to use "forbidden books" for several reasons. E.g. we have to know and understand modernism to detect and reject it.

    Also: I myself listened to Hovind, what he has to say. Nice to see him trying to defend the flood.

    But when it comes to creation, Piux X. gave limits, and we should prefer traditional Catholic views. Most prominent: St. Augustine.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 11:59:31 PM »
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  • It was via the topic of Creation and Mr. Hovind's work that my husband is Catholic today. Please pray for Mr. Hovind. He spent 10 years in prison due to anti-Christian prosecutors and and un-just judge. Not that I feel he was totally blameless, he was a vocal tax-evader but punished rather harshly. He lost his ministry, he lost his faith, he lost his marriage. 

    We had followed his case for years. My husband would write to him in prison and received replies. A few trad Catholics are the ones responsible for his release. However, he is a bitter, sad, shadow of who he was. 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 12:57:36 AM »
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  • Why do you think the Wikipedia page on Ken Hovind is relatively huge for someone who is relatively unknown and unheard of by the vast majority of the American public?  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind .

    As you can see, he clocks in with 179 references.  His page is bigger than various historical and contemporary individuals who you might well think would rate much bigger (at least bigger than Hovind) entries on Wikipedia.  By a quick comparison you could click on some of the people over at Fox News, for example.  They are found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News#Program_hosts.

    I think you will be amazed at the difference in coverage between someone like Hovind and many other public figures.  I know of no one who is so relatively unknown as Hovind who has anywhere near such a big entry on Wikipedia.

    What was it about Ken Hovind that drove Wikipedia to smear and try to utterly destroy his reputation to the extent they have done?  A big clue (if not most of the answer itself) I think can be found in not only why it did that but also why the legal system treated him so harshly in watching what he was doing so effectively before he went to prison:


    .
    Good video to watch if you're a parent considering sending your son or daughter to Berkeley (or any other secular college).
    Some of the top comments as of today:
    .
    .
    Channel owner's comment:

    yashuafreak
    Published on Sep 21, 2012

    SUBSCRIBE 1.2K
    Evolutionism Loses Berkeley Debate - 160 Professors Defeat bye Creation Scientist[color=var(--yt-primary-text-color)]

    In this video, Kent Hovind defeated 160 college professors who believe in the religion of Evolutionism.  They all chickened out and threw in the towel and gave up with out a fight.  Instead, a bunch of brainwashed college students show up to try to take on God's Truth and defend the devil's lie.  These kids are so obviously brainwashed it's not even funny, and goes further to discredit these false pseudo-science teachings than even Kent's  arguments.  They repeatedly get up and make fools of themselves and are unable to see the basic irrationality and sheer stupidity of the arguments they are making even as Doctor Hovind tries to make it plain to them.  Just as I was about to get lost in the sheer ridiculousness of their illogical reasoning, I found myself realizing I have now seen the face of those who make slanderous and malicious attacks in their comments on my very own You Tube Channel here, seemingly thinking they have won the arguing without presenting an argument, but simply by bullying ridiculing and name calling, which is, of course, irrational.


    [/color]Jesus Christ Messiah Lord God Heaven Hell Life Death Salvation Eternity End Times Last Days Rapture Tribulation Armageddon Prophecy Prophet Holy Bible Truth Fact Creation Evolution Hawaii Street "Sermon (Literature Subject)" Berkeley Science lie Truth Reality Fantasy Evidence Brainwashing "End Time (Belief)" Gospel College University Response Spirit Student Darwin Study Word Students Campus Education Debate Richard Earth Dawkins Graduation School Creation Intelligent Design Logic Proof Lamb Theory Reason Kent Genesis Institute Evil Morality Cross Hovind "Kent Hovind (Person)"




    Melanie C
    2 years ago
    This was a really hard video to watch because it reminded me of what I used to think.  I now know I was brainwashed into blindly believing evolution is fact.  I was a full blown atheist who would have been right up there fighting Dr. Hovind. I thank God everyday for opening my eyes.  It took a lot of questioning and eventually I broke down and asked God for help and He sent me my fiancee and completely opened my eyes to the truth.  A few years ago I would NEVER have thought I would have changed my mind about evolution.  I will thank God EVERYDAY for opening my eyes.

    yashuafreak
    4 years ago
    " It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to explain something.  Their minds are made up based on their own indoctrination.  Then, in a defensive stance to protect their psychological weakness, these guys are all trying to say that indoctrination is liberal education.  I don't think anyone can talk sense into someone who refuses to listen to any evidence contrary to their own self-built boxes. "

    Bryce Thigpen
    2 years ago
    This is why Richard Dawkins refuses to debate Kent Hovind

    JR Woods
    4 years ago (edited)
    Berkeley is no different than any other evolution-centered institution: indoctrination rather than education. Education is about evidence-based inquiries, evolution is about telling you what to say about the evidence that is found. This is why it has no coherence. Examine closely the questions these so-called "students" ask and you will find they are unable to sift through their own presuppositions and definitions resulting in simple emotional rejection. This is all indicative to indoctrinated peoples. You get the same reaction when you hypnotize someone--all they can do is reject you, they are incapable of thinking through their answers. The largest problem is that they are incapable--COMPLETELY INCAPABLE--of recognizing what are clear lies. This is why they are incapable of recognizing any equivocation between terms. Check out the dufus at 1:08:10 who wants to assert that DNA is "not complex", despite having already established the complexity in previous comments. Evolutionary theory creates active stupidity. 

    Frank M
    3 years ago (edited)
    This is a very interesting video. It's as if the people asking the questions weren't even listening during the 45 min talk at the beginning. If these young people talked to and debated their professors in the same manner they would be disciplined. Behold our future leaders. It's enough to make one cry. Pathetic!

    Sparky!
    4 years ago
    You sure do have to put up with allot Kent, good job!

    yashuafreak
    3 years ago
    The theme is all these religiously zealous  Evolutionism devotees do not want to believe in the God they know exists, they grasp at the evolutionary straws to convince themselves and refuse to admit how absurd and unscientific the whole ridiculous idea of evolution no matter what, they are like children keeping their eyes shitt tight and screaming "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!  I'm not listening!!!" (Which is what ALL of their high sounding arguements amount to) against all logic reason and authority to the contrary of their impossible idea / "theory"! 

    Amyra B.
    4 years ago (edited)
    I'm sooooo proud of Kent Hovind. He stood up to all those angry, hysterical religious fanatics who were clearly desperate to uphold their evolutionist faith. Hovind remained calm, focused, and good humored and God gave him the victory! He sets a really good example for Christians to stand firm for their faith. God bless him!

    yashuafreak
    2 years ago (edited)
    Evolutionism, Materialism, Scientism, Secular Humanism, Atheism is a religious belief -- they're believed by faith w/no proof - ranting, name calling, fits of rage, blanket statements, saying it is proved / known, etc. is no proof whatsoever!  Who told you - they had no proof either - get over it - go find if you can - until then, admit to yourself (we already know) you have strongly held religious beliefs!
    definition:  religion - 1. a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith; 2. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe ...

    Dedpol
    2 years ago
    Evolution is a religion ? What's next ?
    Gravitisim ?

    yashuafreak
    2 years ago
    Hitler said, "If you tell a lie loud enough and often enough and long enough the people will believe it" (ex.: Evolution - nothing exploded nowhere and created everything and everywhere)

    Andrew Gulick
    4 years ago
    "From 1924 to 1988, there was a visitor's sign above the entrance to Carlsbad Caverns that said, Carlsbad was at least 200 million years old.  In 1988, the sign was changed to read 7 to 10 million years old.  Then, for a little while, the sign read that it was 2 million years old.  Now, the sign is gone."
    Jerry Trout (cave specialist with the Forrest Service), Descent, Arizona Highways, Jan. 1993, pp.10-11

    Michael Friedl
    3 years ago
    Kent rocks.

    David Anewman
    1 month ago
    Andrew Gulick
    Funny. They realized their ignorance and the shame of constantly changing your mind about something you label science.

    Make-Make
    3 years ago
    56:44  "My name is Skip Evans, I major in anti-creationism at the university of the National Center for Science Education at..." [audience erupts into applause.]  
    57:04  "You need to hear his message--you need to know what this man is talking about because when you go off and become university professors, you're going to call us up and say 'some kid brought this book in written by a guy named Kent Hovind...what is this stuff?"  You're getting the lesson here tonight...I think you [to Hovind] should speak at a lot more universities and a lot less churches."  

    Sure doesn't sound like "Evolutionism Loses."  Sounds more like Hovind was called there to be a dancing monkey so that the students could be "educated" in Hovind's tactics for mis-education.

    MJ Wells
    3 years ago
    +Make-Make
    I assume that majoring in 'anti-creationism' is to major in rabble rousing as I did not notice Skip engage in any intellectual answer to the issues that were claimed to be incorrect and consequently misinformation. It is disappointing as I would have assumed that a rebuttal would have required a scientific argument to show that the statements that were asserted to be lies were evidentially true.


    As far as I can tell (as a mere professional scientist holding degrees, not as an all wise student still to complete his studies like Skip and some others) the arguments put forward about Haeckel's theory of recapitulation,  and the examples of claimed vestigial organs being demonstrated to be well known not to be vestigial, were both sound and no-one gave a valid refutation of the claim that in the manner that they were stated in text books they were fraudulent.


    It is a shame that either a major in 'anti-creationism' appears to not include core modules in logic, or that Skip is not getting adequate grades in the course, as he did not do credit to the teachers of such a course in his demonstration of a lack of ability to grasp simple logical arguments and to be able to respond with logical arguments of his own. All in all not a good advert for the University he attends.

    Make-Make
    3 years ago
    +MJ Wells Skip Evans was not a student, but a proponent of the separation of church and state.  He worked for the NCSE--hardly a mere "rabble rouser."  Unfortunately, he died in 2012.  There was no need to treat this as a debate because, as all the science students in that room knew, there is nothing to debate.  They only needed to hear the different weird "theories" proposed by intellectual leaches like Hovind.  However, there are plenty of articles and blogs where Evans did show the corny tactics of the creationists.  I suggest reading them--they are quite humorous and enlightening. 

    Els
    7 months ago
    LOL.  Just as Hovind said.  No information, no proof, just personal attacks.  Pathetic.

    Tim Webb
    6 months ago

    "A dreadful sound is in his ears; in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him."
    Skip can now put his logical skills to good use; but this time without an audience, and to the great Judge of the universe.
    May God have mercy on his soul.

    btpcmsag
    2 weeks ago
    So many opponents upset about what Kent Hovind is doing! Why are they so upset? And they take different approaches to their upsetment. They like to warn others about the dirty tricks Hovind uses, but meanwhile they attempt to introduce their own dirty tricks. Maybe they think that dirty tricks should only be according to their own pattern, not Hovind's pattern!

    Then there is the woman at 2:22:55 who is all worried that Hovind should be fighting against errors in other branches of education, not evolution! Why is she so bent out of shape that he has chosen evolution? Maybe he's having too much success in that and she wants him to have less success!

    Frank M
    3 years ago
    Hovind mopped the floor with them. If those "profs" had any brains they would have called in sick that day.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ken Hovind
    « Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 01:44:34 AM »
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  • .
    The best post of all 4,004 of them:
    .
    .
    Andrew Gulick
    4 years ago
    "From 1924 to 1988, there was a visitor's sign above the entrance to Carlsbad Caverns that said, Carlsbad was at least 200 million years old.  In 1988, the sign was changed to read, '7 to 10 million years old.'  Then, for a little while, the sign read that it was '2 million years old.'  Now, the sign is gone."
    -- Jerry Trout (cave specialist with the Forrest Service), Descent, Arizona Highways, Jan. 1993, pp.10-11


    David Anewman
    1 month ago
    Andrew Gulick
    Funny. They realized their ignorance and the shame of constantly changing your mind about something you label "science."


    Michael Friedl
    3 years ago
    Kent rocks.
    .
    .
    I just noticed something. Let's take a look at the figures:

           Sign Posting Duration                                  Ostensible Age of Carlsbad                   Purported Age / Duration
         1924 - 1988 = 64 years                                        200 million years                           200 million / 64 = 3,125,000
       1988   = 1 (or 2) years (?)                                   7 to 10 million years                            8.5 million / 2 = 4,250,000
    "a little while" = a few months (?)                                  2 million years                               2 million /  0.3 = 6,666,000

    Conclusion: their claim of how old Carlsbad Caverns is has been roughly proportional to the duration of the claim.
    Projected into the future, there will come a time when the age of the caverns will decrease as fast as it takes to change the age.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.