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Offline stevusmagnus

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JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
« on: April 01, 2011, 11:30:24 PM »
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  • So how do the Holocaust deniers explain St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross dying in a gas chamber at Auschwitz along with many Catholic Jews from the Netherlands?

    SERMON OF POPE JOHN PAUL II
    FOR THE CANONIZATION OF EDITH STEIN
    Sunday 11 October 1998


    ...4. Dear brothers and sisters! Because she was Jewish, Edith Stein was
    taken with her sister Rosa and many other Catholic Jews from the
    Netherlands to the concentration camp in Auschwitz, where she died
    with them in the gas chambers.
    Today we remember them all with deep
    respect. A few days before her deportation, the woman religious had
    dismissed the question about a possible rescue: “Do not do it! Why
    should I be spared? Is it not right that I should gain no advantage
    from my Baptism? If I cannot share the lot of my brothers and sisters,
    my life, in a certain sense, is destroyed”.

    From now on, as we celebrate the memory of this new saint from year to
    year, we must also remember the Shoah, that cruel plan to exterminate
    a people — a plan to which millions of our Jewish brothers and sisters
    fell victim. May the Lord let his face shine upon them and grant them
    peace (Num 6:25f.).


    For the love of God and man, once again I raise an anguished cry: May
    such criminal deeds never be repeated against any ethnic group,
    against any race, in any corner of this world! It is a cry to
    everyone: to all men of goodwill; to all who believe in the Just and
    Eternal God; to all who know they are joined to Christ, the Word of
    God made man. We must all stand together: human dignity is at stake.
    There is only one human family. The new saint also insisted on this:
    “Our love of neighbour is the measure of our love of God. For
    Christians — and not only for them — no one is a ‘stranger’. The love
    of Christ knows no borders”.


    5. Dear brothers and sisters! The love of Christ was the fire that
    inflamed the life of St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross. Long before she
    realized it, she was caught by this fire. At the beginning she devoted
    herself to freedom. For a long time Edith Stein was a seeker. Her mind
    never tired of searching and her heart always yearned for hope. She
    traveled the arduous path of philosophy with passionate enthusiasm.
    Eventually she was rewarded: she seized the truth. Or better: she was
    seized by it. Then she discovered that truth had a name: Jesus Christ.
    From that moment on, the incarnate Word was her One and All. Looking
    back as a Carmelite on this period of her life, she wrote to a
    Benedictine nun: “Whoever seeks the truth is seeking God, whether
    consciously or unconsciously”.

    Although Edith Stein had been brought up religiously by her Jewish
    mother, at the age of 14 she “had consciously and deliberately stopped
    praying”. She wanted to rely exclusively on herself and was concerned
    to assert her freedom in making decisions about her life. At the end
    of a long journey, she came to the surprising realization: only those
    who commit themselves to the love of Christ become truly free.

    This woman had to face the challenges of such a radically changing
    century as our own. Her experience is an example to us. The modern
    world boasts of the enticing door which says: everything is permitted.
    It ignores the narrow gate of discernment and renunciation. I am
    speaking especially to you, young Christians, particularly to the many
    altar boys who have come to Rome these days on pilgrimage: Pay
    attention! Your life is not an endless series of open doors! Listen to
    your heart! Do not stay on the surface, but go to the heart of things!
    And when the time is right, have the courage to decide! The Lord is
    waiting for you to put your freedom in His good hands.

    6. St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross was able to understand that the
    love of Christ and human freedom are intertwined, because love and
    truth have an intrinsic relationship. The quest for truth and its
    expression in love did not seem at odds to her; on the contrary she
    realized that they call for one another.

    In our time, truth is often mistaken for the opinion of the majority.
    In addition, there is a widespread belief that one should use the
    truth even against love or vice versa. But truth and love need each
    other. St Teresa Benedicta is a witness to this. The “martyr for
    love”, who gave her life for her friends, let no one surpass her in
    love. At the same time, with her whole being she sought the truth, of
    which she wrote: “No spiritual work comes into the world without great
    suffering. It always challenges the whole person”.

    St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross says to us all: Do not accept
    anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as
    love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive
    lie.


    7. Finally, the new saint teaches us that love for Christ undergoes
    suffering. Whoever truly loves does not stop at the prospect of
    suffering: he accepts communion in suffering with the one he loves.

    Aware of what her Jewish origins implied, Edith Stein spoke eloquently
    about them: “Beneath the Cross I understood the destiny of God’s
    People.... Indeed, today I know far better what it means to be the
    Lord’s bride under the sign of the Cross. But since it is a mystery,
    it can never be understood by reason alone”.

    The mystery of the Cross gradually enveloped her whole life, spurring
    her to the point of making the supreme sacrifice. As a bride on the
    Cross, Sr Teresa Benedicta did not only write profound pages about the
    “science of the Cross”, but was thoroughly trained in the school of
    the Cross. Many of our contemporaries would like to silence the Cross.
    But nothing is more eloquent than the Cross when silenced! The true
    message of suffering is a lesson of love. Love makes suffering
    fruitful and suffering deepens love.

    Through the experience of the Cross, Edith Stein was able to open the
    way to a new encounter with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the
    Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faith and the Cross proved
    inseparable to her. Having matured in the school of the Cross, she
    found the roots to which the tree of her own life was attached. She
    understood that it was very important for her “to be a daughter of the
    chosen people and to belong to Christ not only spiritually, but also
    through blood”.

    8. “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit
    and truth” (Jn 4:24).

    Dear brothers and sisters, the divine Teacher spoke these words to the
    Samaritan woman at Jacob’s well. What He gave His chance but attentive
    listener we also find in the life of Edith Stein, in her “ascent of
    Mount Carmel”. The depth of the divine mystery became perceptible to
    her in the silence of contemplation. Gradually, throughout her life,
    as she grew in the knowledge of God, worshiping Him in spirit and
    truth, she experienced ever more clearly her specific vocation to
    ascend the Cross with Christ, to embrace it with serenity and trust,
    to love it by following in the footsteps of her beloved Spouse: St
    Teresa Benedicta of the Cross is offered to us today as a model to
    inspire us and a protectress to call upon.

    We give thanks to God for this gift. May the new saint be an example
    to us in our commitment to serve freedom, in our search for the truth.
    May her witness constantly strengthen the bridge of mutual
    understanding between Jews and Christians.


    St Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, pray for us! Amen.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 04:22:24 AM »
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  • Do you believe Edith Stein truly must be a saint?

    Do you really go along with post-Vatican II canonizations?

    John Paul II's "saint factory" - which seems like an effort to replace the saints of the past with new ones?

    If you're trying to argue for existence of gas chambers on the basis of John Paul II's canonization process - then you need to try another line of argument.

    Here's one for you Stevus:

    How do you Opus Dei critics explain the canonization of Josemaria Escriva?


    Offline Jehanne

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 06:39:17 AM »
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  • I hope that there are no Holocaust deniers here on this board.  Bishop Williamson's comments several years ago have been "sand in the face" of the Traditional Catholic movement, a brush which our critics have tried to paint all of us with.  That the Holocaust occurred and that 12 million people perished in it is beyond dispute.  What needs to be emphasized, however, is that there have been other Holocausts, such as the one that occurred in North America with the Native population.  Just as the majority (to perhaps most) of the Jews in the concentration camps died of "natural" (disease, starvation, etc.) causes, so too did tens of millions of Native Americans perish at the hands of Europeans.  While I agree, absolutely and unequivocally, with the Christianization of native American peoples and the end to their grotesque barbarism (the Aztecs came close in some instances to the Nazi death camps, both in numbers and in peak deaths per hour), the policies which the Protestant United States of America (namely, the "doctrine" of Manifest Destiny) inflicted upon the Native American peoples were utterly barbaric, even more inhumane, in some instances, than the sufferings which the Nazis inflicted upon the Jews.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 06:49:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    I hope that there are no Holocaust deniers here on this board.  Bishop Williamson's comments several years ago have been "sand in the face" of the Traditional Catholic movement, a brush which our critics have tried to paint all of us with.  That the Holocaust occurred and that 12 million people perished in it is beyond dispute.  


    Jehanne, I don't claim to know what happened, but I think there is ample reason to doubt that this claim of the six million and of the gas chambers in particular should be subject to scrutiny and doubt.

    To those unaware of the role of Jews and their overarching role in determining public discourse, it seem outrageous to suggest it.  It is best to be cautious, of course, because embracing a position diametrically opposed to the propagandist historians would lead to absurd errors, of course.  But we cannot allow ourselves to be bound by the rules they set for discourse - that leads to disastrous results.

    Yes, you're right that many, many people have been murdered - but somehow the Jews have insisted that their sufferings are more important than the sufferings of other people - the reason for that - they don't openly say - but there's only one reason for that - they regard themselves as being far more valuable than other people.  And that is ultimately what the endless stream of Holocaust propaganda is about - it's about their desire for special immunity - for untouchability - whenever an evil the Jews do corporately is pointed out  - they point to the six million and say: these critics want to murder us like the Nazis!

    I'm not endorsing this site, but the following article makes some very good points - if we allow the Jews to browbeat us on this issue - if we allow ourselves to tar and feather people who run afoul of them out of a misguided desire for human respect, then we are inevitably led down the path the conciliar church has taken:

    http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vppgtheo.html

    Offline Telesphorus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 06:59:22 AM »
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  • correction:

    Jehanne, I don't claim to know what happened, but I think there is ample reason to doubt this claim of the six million and the claims of the gas chambers in particular should be subject to scrutiny and doubt.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2011, 09:01:10 AM »
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  • How do Holocaustolatrists explain the census numbers from before and after the war, which numbers utterly annihilate the "six million" nonsense?

    There is NO evidence to support the "history" that the Judaics have been shoving down our throats for decades.  Yes, many people died, including some Judaics, but the story told today is nothing but a very large piece of petrified turd, used to beat non-Judaics into groveling submission.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 09:54:35 AM »
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  • I share the opinion of Bishop Williamson that there is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of the use of gas chambers in any of the concentration camps. They used that zyklon B gas, not on PEOPLE, but on LAUNDRY, because of LICE, and they've not found forensic evidence demonstrating a death from this gas, especially MASS deaths on account of this gas.

    I don't buy it.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 10:09:14 AM »
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  • Also, German census records before the "holocaust" had the Jewish population at 500,000 (seems to be missing a ZERO in there, doesn't it?)

    The 6 million figure is a LIE.

    You know what IS true? 8,000,000 GYPSIES were LINED UP AND SHOT and weren't even sent to the concentration camps and NO ONE HEARS THAT. I get that from an EYE WITNESS.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 11:19:44 AM »
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  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Jewish_population

    Jewish population

    One Holocaust denial argument is the comparison of the population of Jews before and after the Holocaust. They state that the 1940 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,319,359, while the 1948 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638. They therefore claim that either the figures are wrong, or the Holocaust, meaning the deaths of millions of Jews, cannot have happened to any extent similar to the claimed 6 million.[53]

    The World Almanac volumes from 1945 to 1949[54][55][56][57] present two sets of figures for the world Jewish population, one attributed to the American Jewish Committee (AJC) and the other under the Almanac's own responsibility. The set from the AJC makes clear they use figures from 1938, "the last available data". Until 1949, the two sets of figures were very similar. But in 1949, the World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638,[58] while the AJC number in the same volume (but for 1947) was 11,266,600.[59] Moreover, the AJC revised its estimate of the world Jewish population in 1939 upward, to 16,643,120. Thus, according to the AJC in the 1949 World Almanac, the difference between the pre and post war populations is over 5.4 million. Subsequent years of the Almanac discontinued all reporting of populations for all religions worldwide, while continuing to carry the AJC's numbers regarding the world Jewish population.

    Other sources confirm similar numbers—and earlier than the 1949 World Almanac—for the Jewish population before and after the war. The 1932 American Jewish Yearbook estimate the total number of Jews in the world at 15,192,218, of whom 9,418,248 resided in Europe. However, the 1947 yearbook states: "Estimates of the world Jewish population have been assembled by the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (except for the United States and Canada) and are probably the most authentic available at the present time. The figures reveal that the total Jewish population of the world has decreased by one-third from about 16,600,000 in 1939 to about 11,000,000 in 1946 as the result of the annihilation by the Nazis of more than five and a half million European Jews. In Europe only an estimated 3,642,000 remain of the total Jewish pre-war population of approximately 9,740,000." These numbers are also consistent with the findings of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, Appendix III, in 1946.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 11:33:59 AM »
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  • I have looked through some textbooks from the late 40s and early 50s.  The "six million" and the "gas chambers" are missing from the narrative.

    The New World Illustrated History does say Jews died in camps but doesn't talk about the numbers or means.

    This one was edited by Harry Elmer Barnes, who was a revisionist (of WWI and WWII)

    http://www.amothersjournal.com/2007/11/09/the-illustrated-world-history/

    Mine, a later edition, which covered up to the early postwar period, did not have Harry Elmer Barnes as an editor.  What a joy it was to read that book as young boy.

    Offline Zenith

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 08:59:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Jewish_population

    Jewish population

    One Holocaust denial argument is the comparison of the population of Jews before and after the Holocaust. They state that the 1940 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,319,359, while the 1948 World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638. They therefore claim that either the figures are wrong, or the Holocaust, meaning the deaths of millions of Jews, cannot have happened to any extent similar to the claimed 6 million.[53]

    The World Almanac volumes from 1945 to 1949[54][55][56][57] present two sets of figures for the world Jewish population, one attributed to the American Jewish Committee (AJC) and the other under the Almanac's own responsibility. The set from the AJC makes clear they use figures from 1938, "the last available data". Until 1949, the two sets of figures were very similar. But in 1949, the World Almanac gives the world Jewish population as 15,713,638,[58] while the AJC number in the same volume (but for 1947) was 11,266,600.[59] Moreover, the AJC revised its estimate of the world Jewish population in 1939 upward, to 16,643,120. Thus, according to the AJC in the 1949 World Almanac, the difference between the pre and post war populations is over 5.4 million. Subsequent years of the Almanac discontinued all reporting of populations for all religions worldwide, while continuing to carry the AJC's numbers regarding the world Jewish population.

    Other sources confirm similar numbers—and earlier than the 1949 World Almanac—for the Jewish population before and after the war. The 1932 American Jewish Yearbook estimate the total number of Jews in the world at 15,192,218, of whom 9,418,248 resided in Europe. However, the 1947 yearbook states: "Estimates of the world Jewish population have been assembled by the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (except for the United States and Canada) and are probably the most authentic available at the present time. The figures reveal that the total Jewish population of the world has decreased by one-third from about 16,600,000 in 1939 to about 11,000,000 in 1946 as the result of the annihilation by the Nazis of more than five and a half million European Jews. In Europe only an estimated 3,642,000 remain of the total Jewish pre-war population of approximately 9,740,000." These numbers are also consistent with the findings of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, Appendix III, in 1946.


    Do you seriously take this as evidence that the "holcaust" is true? First you quote JPII, the greatest humanist and apostate and then you quote wikipedia.
    If I wanted to find misinformation on this issue I would not have to look far. Its a bit like asking Bill Gates which computer is better, Apple or Microsoft? He's not going to tell you to buy an Apple is he even if it could be proven beyond doubt that apple is the better computer.

    The only "dogma" that modern Rome protects is the holohoax.


    Offline Darcy

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 01:10:56 AM »
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  • It is best to listen to what the Jews have to say on the matter.

    David Cole, a young Jew, who has been driven into obscurity for his courage, speaks in detail about the horrors of Auschwitz.


    Offline Catholic Samurai

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 02:51:13 PM »
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  • I cant believe Stevus is using a JohnPaulII quote as a historical citation.  :facepalm:


    Now that I think about it, the sanctity of St.Edith Stein aside, from where, and how, were her relics obtained?
    "Louvada Siesa O' Sanctisimo Sacramento!"~warcry of the Amakusa/Shimabara rebels

    "We must risk something for God!"~Hernan Cortes


    TEJANO AND PROUD!

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 01:24:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Zenith
    Do you seriously take this as evidence that the "holcaust" is true? First you quote JPII, the greatest humanist and apostate and then you quote wikipedia.
    If I wanted to find misinformation on this issue I would not have to look far. Its a bit like asking Bill Gates which computer is better, Apple or Microsoft? He's not going to tell you to buy an Apple is he even if it could be proven beyond doubt that apple is the better computer.

    The only "dogma" that modern Rome protects is the holohoax.


    So what in that quote I provided do you dispute? It addresses the point about the population counts in Europe you and others keep bringing up.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    JPII: Edith Stein Sisters Died in Gas Chambers
    « Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 01:31:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Darcy
    It is best to listen to what the Jews have to say on the matter.

    David Cole, a young Jew, who has been driven into obscurity for his courage, speaks in detail about the horrors of Auschwitz.



    http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/censgunpoint.html

    "This statement is given in an attempt to set the record straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of the Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier (a self-described "revisionist"). For the last three years I have no longer been associated with this movement, having realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to distance myself from that life.

    However, in that shame-induced silence it has been brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I should have to make a clear and complete public statement in order to set the record straight as to where I stand.

    It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that task.

    I would like to state for the record that there is no question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in gas chambers which employed such poison gases as Zyklon B and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is overwhelming and unmistakable.

    The Nazis intended to kill all of the Jews of Europe, and the final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million. This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never be forgotten.

    During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with self-hate and loathing, a fact that many of my critics were quick to point out. Indeed, this self hatred was obvious to most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened, thanks to several good, kind friends who refused to give up on me even at my worst, I was horrified by what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I wronged to make a forceful repudiation of my earlier views. I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people I enraged, and to the family and friends I hurt, but especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

    Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.

    And just as I must set the record straight concerning my views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries" are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute viewers that this was a man not in touch with reality.

    It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these additional points: This video is being advertised without my consent, and I denounce this video as being without worth. Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical field". Students on college campuses should look elsewhere to find out about the Holocaust. To these students I would say, look to books like Hilberg's "Destruction of the European Jews", Yahil's "The Holocaust", and Dawidowicz's "War Against the Jews" for correct information. If your school library doesn't stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly denounce them as frauds.

    I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this statement. This statement is made freely and under no duress, and is quite willingly, even happily, given to Mr. Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defense League for the widest possible distribution. This statement is the most current and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes an previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank you for letting me set the record straight.

    [Signed]

    David Cole

    [notarized] "


     

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