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Author Topic: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"  (Read 1998 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

Re: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 04:11:11 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 05, 2017, 02:51:55 PM
GAUDET MATER ECCLESIA

POPE JOHN'S OPENING SPEECH TO THE COUNCIL
October 11, 1962
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Curiously, when this occurred, October 11th was the Feast of the Divine Maternity of Mary. Not long after that, the Feast Day was abolished and a so-called tradeoff was erected on January 1st, which by the way displaced another longstanding Holy Day, the Feast of the Circuмcision, replacing it with the Solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God.
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Reminds me of hiding a bean under one of three walnut shell halves......... (IOW a shell game)
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Offline sedevacantist

Re: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 04:46:44 PM »
No Stubborn, your opening thread was exactly opposite of this opening thread. The point of this opening thread was that, according to the solemn, dogmatic teaching on papal infallibility from the Vatican Council of 1870, Paul VI could not possibly have been a valid pope. Ergo, everything he enacted, revised, or "solemnly ratified" was completely worthless - including the new Sacramental Rite of Ordination and Episcopal Consecration.

In addition, the very fact that this "Pastoral" lie even exists, and is perpetuated by the Masonic controlled (and invalid) hierarchy, is proof that Paul VI was an antipope. The whole "Pastoral Council" myth was a cover-up. A smokescreen to hide the truth. The Masons are trying to hide the fact that Paul VI "solemnly ratified" anything at all. "It was just a Pastoral Council. Nothing authoritative happened. Go back to sleep. Allah is God."

One more time: Paul VI "solemnly ratified" docuмents that were clearly heretical. This is something a true pope CANNOT POSSIBLY DO. Ergo, he was an antipope. And so, to posit, as you did (via Fr. Wathen) that the hierarchy still exists, is to deny the Catholic Dogma of Papal Infallibility. Therefore, in the end, your opening thread was entirely opposite of this one.
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Offline sedevacantist

Re: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 05:05:33 PM »
Neil Obstat says:

It's a curious theory, but doesn't hold water.
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The opening speech of Vat.II was a game changer. No more was the Church going to apply her condemnation of error! No more anathemas!! (You see, a council would be "pastoral" if it removed its intention to condemn error and focused instead on pastoral concerns, whatever that means -- there had never been a "pastoral council" in the past so all the references to history and tradition was simply HOT AIR and signifying NOTHING.) No, instead the Church was to make use of the "medicine of mercy." The problem with that plan is that mercy is not medicine! Condemnation of error is medicine! Big Mistake Number Two.
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So the "good Pope John's" plan was a loser from the get-go.
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Not only that, when he read the Third Secret of Fatima he scoffed, "This is not for Our Pontificate."
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That was Big Mistake Number One.

Listen to him go...
Another change of the subject. A clever misdirection - and a subtle denial of solemnly defined Catholic Dogma.
All the Masons' favorite tricks. And all done with such professional nonchalance.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 05:23:18 PM »
Just because it was a pastoral council doesn't mean it wasn't ecuмenical.  It's not one or the other.  V2 was ecuмenical because it was open/attended by all the Cardinals of the Church.  All of the ecuмenical councils in the history of the Church have DEFINED and explained doctrine (that's why you call a council; it's sorta its purpose).  However, V2 did NOT define any doctrine, it only discussed HOW doctrine should be applied 'to modern man' (which is a novelty).  Therefore it wasn't a doctrinal council but a pastoral one.

I don't know who first used the term 'pastoral', but Paul VI did use this term to describe it.

Finally, to answer your first post - yes, of course John XXIII didn't call V2 a pastoral council...because it started out to be a normal council, with normal doctrinal definitions.  Many cardinals wanted to define Our Lady as the Mediatrix of All Graces.  But their plans were hijacked by liberals, who lied, coerced and tricked many into voting on liberal schemas which became the council.  In the end, V2 defined no new doctrines it only discussed how to apply them.
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Offline songbird

Re: John XXIII never called Vatican II a "Pastoral Council"
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 05:27:27 PM »
My grandmother said, "There goes the Church!" when Vat.II hit the TV.  I was probably age 10.  I remember the press saying," We can not report of the council til translation is done."  I thought to myself, "that's crazy!" If it is in Latin or any language, it could be translated w/o a problem.

My Great-great Uncle was a priest of the Precious Blood up to 1944.  He did keep the family up with news, when he was in town and had a family reunion/dinner.  I believe my Grandmother looked up to her nephew.  But my mother said, nothing.  Then only thing that made my parents talk at the dinner table was the cuban crisis and where would we go for safety from fall out.  I remember the drills in the catholic school, but there was not much talk about the council.
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