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Author Topic: Trying to Convert a Greek Orthodox Young Man- Anything I Could Improve Upon?  (Read 1016 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Trying to Convert a Greek Orthodox Young Man- Anything I Could Improve Upon?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 10:52:32 PM »

Quote
He said:"This is not proof enough for stigmata. Suffering yes, but God does not reward it to us. Peace and Grace. Suffering may be a means of obtaining Grace, but not a reward."
I agree with the other posts that the stigmata is not a good topic to discuss; too unusual a circuŠ¼stance, and hard for a layman to really explain/understand.

However, I will correct his logic above.  He's saying that the stigmata is not a "reward".  Ok, fine.  But grace isn't a "reward" either, for none of us can "earn" anything.  Further, God often gives suffering to saints because they will accept it, and so they will obtain MORE grace, and often, they will obtain graces for others who are too selfish and sinful to accept their own sufferings/grace.  Therefore, the stigmata is not a "reward" but an opportunity...an opportunity for certain saints to suffer at a high level, to thereby sanctify themselves to a high degree and to win conversion of others.  Certainly, Padre Pio and St Francis suffered for others and helped a great many people to save their souls.  The stigmata is a sign from God that a person is charitable enough to suffer for God's will and purpose.
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Offline Neil Obstat

Re: Trying to Convert a Greek Orthodox Young Man- Anything I Could Improve Upon?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2018, 06:11:27 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 31, 2017, 10:52:32 PM
I agree with the other posts that the stigmata is not a good topic to discuss; too unusual a circuŠ¼stance, and hard for a layman to really explain/understand.

However, I will correct his logic above.  He's saying that the stigmata is not a "reward".  Ok, fine.  But grace isn't a "reward" either, for none of us can "earn" anything.  Further, God often gives suffering to saints because they will accept it, and so they will obtain MORE grace, and often, they will obtain graces for others who are too selfish and sinful to accept their own sufferings/grace.  Therefore, the stigmata is not a "reward" but an opportunity...an opportunity for certain saints to suffer at a high level, to thereby sanctify themselves to a high degree and to win conversion of others.  Certainly, Padre Pio and St Francis suffered for others and helped a great many people to save their souls.  The stigmata is a sign from God that a person is charitable enough to suffer for God's will and purpose.
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Fr. Nicholas Gruner had a very interesting development of this doctrine. He didn't quote his source but I expect it was a saint, like Montfort or Kolbe. He said that most of us can aim at doing sufficient penance and gaining graces sufficient to save our own soul, while many do not achieve even that much. Still others do penance and gain graces sufficient for their own salvation and also for the salvation of certain others as well -- these who do so are the saints of the Church. But only one saint has done sufficient penance and has gained sufficient graces for the salvation of all the souls in the world, and that one is the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Offline jvk

Re: Trying to Convert a Greek Orthodox Young Man- Anything I Could Improve Upon?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 06:04:20 PM »
The gift of faith, and hence conversion, is a gift of God.  Someone will not be converted by anybody's arguments alone; they need that divine spark to enlighten their minds and open it to the acceptance of truth. 
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