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Author Topic: Islamic protestantism  (Read 968 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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Islamic protestantism
« on: September 04, 2011, 11:31:48 AM »
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  •   Attention, Attention!
    From now on protestantism is no longer a branch of Christianity. Protestantism is becoming a direction or a way of being that can exist in any religion true or false, Divine or human.
      Protestantism is the idea that you know better than God/or any figure of authority and it is you who decide whether God/or the authority is telling the truth or not.
      Anyone who believes in Christ is a Christ-ian.
    Now if he doesn't want to obey Him, he is a protestant-christ-ian.
       Anyone who believes in mohammed is a moslem,
    And if he doesn't obey, he belongs to the new ism called islamic protestantism.
    .................................................................................................................
    Liberals of my country are proud to call themselves islamic protestants. The idea that their liberation is happening nearly 1500 years after birth of their leader is astonishing as it is how it happened to The Church.
    .................................................................................................................
      But even humanly speaking they can't have the same motives as their christian equals had 500 years ago. Their idea is borrowed from someone else, it is not originated in themselves. Plus their own religion is already offering them freedom to divorce, multiple wives and temperory marriage. From the old times they let women be employed in hard jobs (especially nomadic women), they allow abortion piror to 3 full months.
      So what they want?
    well they want hijab to be abolished,
    Art and music to be allowed,
    girls be allowed to chose their husbands,
       What they seek is what the Church always allowed, and what they always had is what the Church always forbade.
    ...................................................................................................................
       They have no right to compare themselves to Christians.
    I told you, so that if you saw a taliban girl in topless don't get surprised.
    Because I told you.


    Offline Nishant

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 11:54:40 AM »
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  • http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    Quote
    "It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, and the Lord's Prayer. But the message from Mr Hendrikse's sermon seems bleak - "Make the most of life on earth, because it will probably be the only one you get".

    When it happens, it happens down to earth, between you and me, between people, that's where it can happen. God is not a being at all... it's a word for experience, or human experience.

    Wim De Jong says, "Here you can believe what you want to think for yourself, what you really feel and believe is true.""

    Mr Hendrikse describes the Bible's account of Jesus's life as a mythological story about a man who may never have existed, even if it is a valuable source of wisdom about how to lead a good life.


    Isn't this grand? And yet the "Reformers", though they would be aghast at the fruits their rebellion has caused, have no strict right to, since it is only the logical end of their doctrine of private judgment? If man may decide for himself which books belong in the Bible, why may he not also remove every passage in Holy Scripture he finds uncomfortable? If he interprets it subject finally to no external authority whatsoever, but only his own ever-wavering private judgment, why may he not also interpret the entire Bible as merely mythological?

    Apart from Scripture, this is exactly what the First Vatican Council foresaw.

     
    Quote
    Everybody knows that those heresies, condemned by the fathers of Trent, which rejected the divine magisterium of the church and allowed religious questions to be a matter for the judgment of each individual, have gradually collapsed into a multiplicity of sects, either at variance or in agreement with one another; and by this means a good many people have had all faith in Christ destroyed.
     Indeed even the holy Bible itself, which they at one time claimed to be the sole source and judge of the christian faith, is no longer held to be divine, but they begin to assimilate it to the inventions of myth.
     Thereupon there came into being and spread far and wide throughout the world that doctrine of rationalism or naturalism, - utterly opposed to the christian religion, since this is of supernatural origin, - which spares no effort to bring it about that Christ, who alone is our lord and saviour, is shut out from the minds of people and the moral life of nations. Thus they would establish what they call the rule of simple reason or nature. The abandonment and rejection of the christian religion, and the denial of God and his Christ, has plunged the minds of many into the abyss of pantheism, materialism and atheism, and the consequence is that they strive to destroy rational nature itself, to deny any criterion of what is right and just, and to overthrow the very foundations of human society.


    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline Daegus

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 12:31:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Attention, Attention!
    From now on protestantism is no longer a branch of Christianity.


    "From now on"? Protestants have never[/u] been Christians.

    Quote
    Protestantism is becoming a direction or a way of being that can exist in any religion true or false, Divine or human.
      Protestantism is the idea that you know better than God/or any figure of authority and it is you who decide whether God/or the authority is telling the truth or not.


    You're absolutely right.

    Quote
    Anyone who believes in Christ is a Christ-ian.


    Wrong. You have to be Catholic to be a Christian, because being Catholic puts you inside of the Church. Since Protestants are outside of the Church, they are not Christian. How can someone be a member of a society that they're not in? That's just silly.

    Quote
    Now if he doesn't want to obey Him, he is a protestant-christ-ian.


    Refusal to obey Christ makes you an apostate :stare:

    Quote
    Anyone who believes in mohammed is a moslem,
    And if he doesn't obey, he belongs to the new ism called islamic protestantism.
    .................................................................................................................
    Liberals of my country are proud to call themselves islamic protestants. The idea that their liberation is happening nearly 1500 years after birth of their leader is astonishing as it is how it happened to The Church.
    .................................................................................................................


    I wouldn't be surprised. Every society appears to be spiraling downwards while most people don't really even notice it.

    Quote
    But even humanly speaking they can't have the same motives as their christian equals had 500 years ago. Their idea is borrowed from someone else, it is not originated in themselves. Plus their own religion is already offering them freedom to divorce, multiple wives and temperory marriage. From the old times they let women be employed in hard jobs (especially nomadic women), they allow abortion piror to 3 full months.
      So what they want?
    well they want hijab to be abolished,
    Art and music to be allowed,
    girls be allowed to chose their husbands,
       What they seek is what the Church always allowed, and what they always had is what the Church always forbade.


    You are correctly presenting an account of the falsity of the diabolical sect of Islam.

    Quote
    ...................................................................................................................
       They have no right to compare themselves to Christians.
    I told you, so that if you saw a taliban girl in topless don't get surprised.
    Because I told you.


    Exactly. Muslims belong to an explicitly diabolical sect whose founder, according to most traditional accounts, appeared to be possessed and thought that an angel was talking to him. This "prophet", Mahomet, was very different from all of the other true prophets. All of the other prophets were known for being holy. Mahomet was not. None of the other prophets were attacked by "angels" over and over and over again until they succuмbed to them and so on and so fourth.  
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 12:52:32 PM »
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  •   Well, yes. Either God decides or we decide. Now if we are going to decide by our personal logic, then my logic will be different from yours there will be as many ideas as there are people. And as all people claim to be equal their ideas will be equal. And there will be no way to decide which one is correct. Then either of two things happens: 1-those countless ideas wage endless wars 2-they try to accept anything and everything as correct to avoid more wars.
      And some liberal-religious people naively try to reconcile all to all by saying:" but we need some freedom." well, how much is some? who decides on some?

    Offline Nishant

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 01:15:17 PM »
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  • Daegus,

    Quote
    Protestants have never been Christians.


    Objectively considered, Protestantism is a heresy of course. It involves a repudiation of Catholic truth. But this statement may not necessarily be true, as it pertains to their interior disposition - they may be inculpably ignorant, and so in good faith. If they are ignorant through no fault of their own and are willing to obey the will of God and the truth He has revealed, as best as they know it, then this would not be true.

    St.Augustine, Doctor of the Church, not one known to mince words, states,

    Quote
    “But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics.”
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 01:37:07 PM »
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  •   Unless one lives in a remote jungle, or in any place where church activities and sermons are prohibited or controled, such an ignorance is impossible, especially in todays world with wide access to information.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Islamic protestantism
    « Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 01:54:48 PM »
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  •   Whenever they find any good thing not found in their religion they think they have found liberalism, not knowing that those good things can be found elsewhere too. The best example is the two genders being equal before the law. That is, what is sinful for the one should be sinful for the other.
       They love this idea and call it feminism, especially because of the current marriage crisis. When boys are given perfect freedom to satisfy themselves as they will, and girls are forced to stay pure, the society faces the problem of males who are satiated and have no desire to be limited to one love when they can have many at a much lower cost. Then girls who have to be pure can hardly find a husband and are not allowed to have boyfriends either. This suppressed desire for love attracts them to liberalism or "justice" as they call it.
      Neither catholics, nor atheists suffer from inequality before the law and such double standards. So this problem is unique to them.

    Offline Daegus

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    « Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 02:06:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant2011
    Daegus,

    Objectively considered, Protestantism is a heresy of course. It involves a repudiation of Catholic truth. But this statement may not necessarily be true, as it pertains to their interior disposition  - they may be inculpably ignorant, and so in good faith. If they are ignorant through no fault of their own and are willing to obey the will of God and the truth He has revealed, as best as they know it, then this would not be true.


    For the vast majority of people it is true. How many Protestants above the age of reason do you know that don't know what the Catholic Church is or have never heard of it in their lives? How many of them would convert to the Catholic faith if you could prove it was true beyond question? I doubt the number is very high. You also need to consider that external actions are more often than not reflective of the interior disposition of the soul.

    On another note, you should be very careful with how you deal with the topic of "invincible ignorance" and the like. Inculpable/Invincible ignorance has never been historically used to apply to Protestants, and it really has only ever applied to those who the gospel has not yet reached. When speaking of those people, they will not be condemned for the sin of unbelief, but will be condemned for other mortal sins. If these people were truly of good will, God would reveal His truth to them in one way or another. Besides, if these people were really invincibly ignorant, they wouldn't actually be Protestants at all, but Catholics who are erring in the faith.

    Once a Protestant makes their profession of faith (which virtually of them do or will do at some point), that is when they cease to be members of the Church and make the decision to adhere to a false sect and thus become heretics. If they were truly of good will and "inculpably" ignorant, God would find a way to reveal his truth to these people. Another thing to consider is that the vast majority of Protestants in the world are in places where the presence of the Catholic Church is hardly invisible. The Catholic faith is definitely not foreign to Europe (as it built Europe..) or the North Americas. It is not foreign to South America (for the same reason as Europe), it is not foreign to Australia and it is not entirely foreign to Africa as Catholic missionaries have been proselytizing long before Protestants came about. It is only more or less foreign to the majority of Asia, as Christianity has heavily been suppressed in Asia (this is especially true for China).

    In summary, I have no reason to believe that there's anything other than a very small amount of people who are "inculpably" ignorant as you say. Protestantism's existence has its basis in its rejection of the Catholic Church. There is not much of a way to get around that.

    Like spouse said, unless one lives in a remote jungle (which Christian ideals would probably not even reach to begin with), it's highly unlikely that such an ignorance happens to very many people, if anyone at all.  
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra


    Offline Nishant

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    « Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 02:41:11 PM »
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  • Daegus, recognition of a principle is very different from its application. Hypothetically, it could be true that not one soul is found to be in good faith, but still the concept itself is solid. I'm not speculating on what percentage may be inculpably ignorant. Christ's command has been for us to preach the Gospel, in its fullness, to all men, and we would be well advised to do that, that the other sheep that Christ has, who are not of this fold, who are scattered abroad, may be gathered into one, that there be one flock and one shepherd.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.