Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => Topic started by: AnthonyPadua on December 17, 2023, 06:27:58 AM
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2 questions.
1. Is prayer a work?
2. Is Baptism a work? I know protestants consider it a work but do Catholics?
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2 questions.
1. Is prayer a work?
According to my SSPX missal and probably St. Pius X catechism, it is an "eminent good work" along with fasting and giving alms. In quotes because I'm translating from Spanish, don't know if there is a special term in English.
2. Is Baptism a work? I know protestants consider it a work but do Catholics?
It is not a work but a sacrament. In any case who's working at a baptism is God through the minister. However, don't get dragged by protestant categories. For them everything is a work except that time they felt butterflies in their stomach at the revival meeting and said the Sinners prayer, that's "faith" to them.
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Doesn't work imply that it is a natural rather than supernatural act? If so then sacraments would be exempt from this, right?
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Catholics believe that there's a cooperation between human work and the action of grace, and this is most notably and visibly demonstrated in the Sacrament, where a minister performs the rite, but the grace comes from God. Justification comes ex opere operato (a work by God) along with cooperation by the individual with God's grace. Despite the Prot allegations, we don't hold that individuals are saved ex opere operantis.
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Catholics believe that there's a cooperation between human work and the action of grace, and this is most notably and visibly demonstrated in the Sacrament, where a minister performs the rite, but the grace comes from God. Justification comes ex opere operato (a work by God) along with cooperation by the individual with God's grace. Despite the Prot allegations, we don't hold that individuals are saved ex opere operantis.
What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=15-#x)And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food: 16 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=16-#x)And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?
21 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=21-#x)Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=22-#x)Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=23-#x)And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=24-#x)Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 (https://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=66&ch=2&l=25-#x)And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?
I was reading St James which I why I brought this up. I was thinking when you see things like gofundmes or someone begging for help and you pray for them but don't actually help them, then this would not be doing the 'work'? Which is why I asked if prayer was a work or not. I suppose in cases that I've mentioned, if you do have the ability to 'actually' help others then we should/'must'? do so.
That brings me to baptism. It seems to me that baptism of desire is faith without works and in effect salvation by faith alone. As the work of baptism isn't actually being done. I also remembered what St Gregory said on desiring baptism.
XXII. But then, you say, is not God merciful, and since He knows (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm) our thoughts and searches out our desires, will He not take the desire of Baptism instead of Baptism? You are speaking in riddles, if what you mean is that because of God's mercy the unenlightened is enlightened in His sight; and he is within the kingdom of heaven (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm) who merely desires to attain to it, but refrains from doing that which pertains to the kingdom
And I look upon it as well from another point of view. If you judge the murderously disposed man by his will alone, apart from the act of murder (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07441a.htm), then you may reckon as baptized (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm) him who desired baptism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm) apart from the reception of baptism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm). But if you cannot do the one how can you do the other? I cannot see it. Or, if you like, we will put it thus:— If desire in your opinion has equal power with actual baptism (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm), then judge in the same way in regard to glory (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06585a.htm), and you may be content with longing for it, as if that were itself glory (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06585a.htm). And what harm is done you by your not attaining the actual glory (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06585a.htm), as long as you have the desire for it?
I also recall others online speaking making a similar point to this, that one of the reasons the council of Trent was called was to condemn salvation by faith alone.