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Author Topic: Is Francis still pope?  (Read 13194 times)

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Offline cassini

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Is Francis still pope?
« on: August 14, 2024, 11:33:18 AM »
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2024, 11:39:45 AM »
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #2 on: August 14, 2024, 11:40:49 AM »
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2024, 11:41:33 AM »
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    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #4 on: August 14, 2024, 11:41:52 AM »
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2024, 11:59:12 AM »
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    • There are two ways for a pope to vacate his office; 1) his death and 2) his resignation.

    Anyone else remember this?
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #6 on: August 14, 2024, 12:13:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 14, 2024, 11:59:12 AM
    There are two ways for a pope to vacate his office; 1) his death and 2) his resignation.

    Anyone else remember this?

    if it were possible for a pope to become a heretic, he would vacate the office automatically for public heresy.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #7 on: August 14, 2024, 12:19:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 14, 2024, 12:13:51 PM
    if it were possible for a pope to become a heretic, he would vacate the office automatically for public heresy.
    No, obviously he wouldn't, because he hasn't.....and there ain't nuthin' anyone can do about it.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #8 on: August 14, 2024, 12:36:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 14, 2024, 12:19:56 PM
    No, obviously he wouldn't, because he hasn't.....and there ain't nuthin' anyone can do about it.

    In Jorge Bergoglio's case, he did not attain papal office to begin with.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #9 on: August 14, 2024, 12:54:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 14, 2024, 11:59:12 AM
    There are two ways for a pope to vacate his office; 1) his death and 2) his resignation.

    Anyone else remember this?

    Except that since Vatican II, some traditional Catholic have added a new doctrine regarding how a Pope can vacate his office. The new doctrine says that a manifest heretical Pope has vacated his office, even though it looks like he's still sitting in the chair, but really he isn't. And this is the new Church teaching that they want us to accept. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #10 on: August 14, 2024, 01:00:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 14, 2024, 12:54:06 PM
    Except that since Vatican II, some traditional Catholic have added a new doctrine regarding how a Pope can vacate his office. The new doctrine says that a manifest heretical Pope has vacated his office, even though it looks like he's still sitting in the chair, but really he isn't. And this is the new Church teaching that they want us to accept.

    That's because you and Stubborn refuse to accept the Catholic teaching that the public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #11 on: August 14, 2024, 01:04:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on August 14, 2024, 01:00:11 PM
    That's because you and Stubborn refuse to accept the Catholic teaching that the public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.

    We were talking about the official ways, according to Tradition, that a pope can vacate his office. Your doctrine isn't included as being one of the ways in which a Pope can vacate his office, and never has been. Your doctrine is novel.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #12 on: August 14, 2024, 01:33:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 14, 2024, 01:04:41 PM
    We were talking about the official ways, according to Tradition, that a pope can vacate his office. Your doctrine isn't included as being one of the ways in which a Pope can vacate his office, and never has been. Your doctrine is novel.
    No, it is not novel, it is what being a heretic, schismatic or an apostate is. When some willfully consents to being a heretic, schismatic or apostate, they make a free choice to leave the Catholic Church.  The person committing any of these three sins separates themselves from there Catholic Church. The difficulty is that now there are people that choose to be either heretic, schismatic (or both) and some even choose to be an apostate and yet want to keep their clerical position within the Church so as to destroy it.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #13 on: August 14, 2024, 01:45:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mr G on August 14, 2024, 01:33:10 PM
    No, it is not novel, it is what being a heretic, schismatic or an apostate is. When some willfully consents to being a heretic, schismatic or apostate, they make a free choice to leave the Catholic Church.  The person committing any of these three sins separates themselves from there Catholic Church. The difficulty is that now there are people that choose to be either heretic, schismatic (or both) and some choose to be an apostate and yet want to keep their clerical position within the Church so as to destroy it.

    Where in the Traditional teachings of the Church is your doctrine included, regarding how a Pope loses his office?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Is Francis still pope?
    « Reply #14 on: August 14, 2024, 01:59:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 14, 2024, 01:45:00 PM
    Where in the Traditional teachings of the Church is your doctrine included, regarding how a Pope loses his office?
    Where in the Traditional teachings of the Church is your doctrine included, regarding a Non-Catholic holding office in the Catholic Church?
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