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Author Topic: Is Ballet Immoral?  (Read 2012 times)

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Online WorldsAway

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Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 05:29:53 AM »
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  • There is a difference between a man having same sex attraction and a man actually committing this sin of sodomy. The former is not a sin.

    We don’t know what sins the people we associate with are engaging in… including traditional Catholics 😱

    In order to avoid anyone who is committing any kind of mortal sin we’d need to live as a hermit.
    I'm not sure how the predominance of same-sex-attracted yet celibate male ballet dancers slipped my mind, my mistake :smirk: I'm certain these totally-not-sodomites will have a positive influence on your daughter 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Justinian

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 05:40:10 AM »
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  • I'm not sure how the predominance of same-sex-attracted yet celibate male ballet dancers slipped my mind, my mistake :smirk: I'm certain these totally-not-sodomites will have a positive influence on your daughter
    Maybe these people you call ‘sodomites’ will have a deathbed conversion like Oscar Wilde? I do not define people by their sin. Just pray for them. 

    Interestingly enough I know priests who have same sex attraction but are celibate. 


    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 06:55:16 AM »
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  • Ballet is unquestionably immoral, Catholics ought to have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    Regarding dancing in general, read St Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life.
    I need someone to point out the immorality of the Nutcracker suite. I am a practical person and I like real world examples.  My mom let me see this ballet when I was nine.  I didn't feel like I was being scandalized, and I was sensitive to those things.  It was just a cute fairy tail.

    You should have summarized St. Francis de Sales because his take on the whole thing is exactly how I feel about it.  He said dances and balls are indifferent, it's what sinful things people choose to do at these events.  It's the time of day they happen.  It's the laziness that occurs the day after.  It's  is probably the alcohol that is served and lowers peoples inhibitions.  He said if you go to a dance or ball be extra aware and make sure you don't sin.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 07:17:04 AM »
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  • The dancing is not the problem, so remove that aspect of the argument, it is the immodesty of the outfits and impure gestures that is the issue ...

    ... except of course that it's difficult to separate the "impure gestures" from "dancing", where there's a fuzzy distinction between the two.  Rhythm movement of the body (= dancing) can itself constitute "impure gestures".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 07:26:20 AM »
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  • I need someone to point out the immorality of the Nutcracker suite.

    Seriously?  Simple perform a Google image search of "Nutcracker Ballet".  This was just one of the first two or three images.  In order not to be a hypocrite by posting something I hold to be gravely immoral, I blotted out the gravely immoral sections.  Let's just say you can very clearly see the outlines of both their private areas.  Or have you not read the guidance issued under Pope Pius XI regarding immodesty?  Well over 50% of ballet entails both women and men spreading their legs as far apart as they can.



    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 07:33:08 AM »
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  • Seriously?  Simple perform a Google image search of "Nutcracker Ballet".  This was just one of the first two or three images.  In order not to be a hypocrite by posting something I hold to be gravely immoral, I blotted out the gravely immoral sections.  Let's just say you can very clearly see the outlines of both their private areas.  Or have you not read the guidance issued under Pope Pius XI regarding immodesty?


    That is a costume issue.  If the costumes were modest would the dance be a problem?

    Would this performance be a problem?  It also has ballet moves.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/0huAxNJwNZY?si=LTQTohFVp3R2YIOf
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 07:37:56 AM »
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  • My mom let me see this ballet when I was nine.  I didn't feel like I was being scandalized ...

    So, this is why women cannot be theologians, much less moral theologians.  Theology works on principles, not on whether you FEEL like you were being scandalized, and not wanting to admit that your "mom" might have done something immoral -- a bunch of emotional reasons bundled together.

    We on the other hand simply read the directives issued by that congregation under Pope Pius XI (the last Catholic guidance I'm aware of) ... and apply the principles.  It's not about FEELINGs.

    Now, with that said, there is one aspect of moral theology that is somewhat subjective, where something could be a near occasion of sin to one person that is not to another.  But that's not relevant to the principles, but merely specific applications of principle.

    This does not mean that you can go to watch strippers simply because that does not constitute an occasional of sin for you ... since there are other aspects of moral theology, including scandal, and simply the harm one does to his own sensibilities regarding right and wrong, and just being IN an environment with grave sin being inherent in it, that's sinfully inappropriate for a Catholic regardless of whether or not it constitutes a grave occasion of sin.  Yes, most of us likely COULD go to a ballet and not have it constitute a grave occasion of sin, especially since, depending on your seats, one might have a different perspective on it.  But simply attending such things suggests that we approve of them or consider them to be acceptable and licit, which along suffices for forbidding Catholics from attending.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 07:43:26 AM »
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  • That is a costume issue.  If the costumes were modest would the dance be a problem?

    Would this performance be a problem?  It also has ballet moves.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/0huAxNJwNZY?si=LTQTohFVp3R2YIOf

    No, it's not merely a costume issue.  First of all, I would defy anyone to find a ballet these days that did not labor under "costume issues".  There aren't any.  Secondly, even if the crotch areas were properly hidden (difficult to do given the agility required to excute the moves) the mere poses of stretching your legs apart as far as they would go ... with your prviate areas being in between, those "gestures" and body movements along suffice to render them immodest.


    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 07:56:02 AM »
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  • No, it's not merely a costume issue.  First of all, I would defy anyone to find a ballet these days that did not labor under "costume issues".  There aren't any.  Secondly, even if the crotch areas were properly hidden (difficult to do given the agility required to excute the moves) the mere poses of stretching your legs apart as far as they would go ... with your prviate areas being in between, those "gestures" and body movements along suffice to render them immodest.
    Did you watch the video? Is it immoral?  The women are completely covered.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 08:22:22 AM »
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  • Would this performance be a problem?  It also has ballet moves.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/0huAxNJwNZY?si=LTQTohFVp3R2YIOf
    That's not ballet.

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 08:59:41 AM »
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  • That's not ballet.
    The dance moves like the leaps and arm movements are. What kind of dance would you call it?
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 09:07:18 AM »
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  • The dance moves like the leaps and arm movements are. What kind of dance would you call it?
    It's an ancient Chinese dance.  Not ballet.

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 09:08:40 AM »
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  • The dance moves like the leaps and arm movements are. What kind of dance would you call it?
    Also they are wearing point shoes.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 09:32:45 AM »
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  • Also they are wearing point shoes.
    :jester:  So if some overweight guy puts on point shoes, and moves his feet, it's all of a sudden called "ballet"? 

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Is Ballet Immoral?
    « Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 09:41:56 AM »
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  • Here is an example of what appears to reasonably modest outfits, but what would you say about the movements, acceptable or not?





    This is one is not ballet, but I like the floating or gliding effect: