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If you had to pick only one to live which one would you pick?

Your pet dog or cat.
An unknown person.
Other, please explain.
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Author Topic: Is an animal as important as a human being?  (Read 3524 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2022, 07:16:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 10, 2022, 10:08:16 PM
    We had 1 person vote for the pet.  Come on, now, who was it?  :laugh1:
    Poche?
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #16 on: October 11, 2022, 07:29:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 10, 2022, 10:08:16 PM
    We had 1 person vote for the pet.  Come on, now, who was it?  :laugh1:
    I'm more interested in the 3 who voted other but failed to explain.
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #17 on: October 11, 2022, 09:53:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on October 08, 2022, 05:53:49 PM
    With the huge amount of degradation of mankind and the constant promotion of legislation by the state protecting animals, I was interested if the Catholics on this forum believe that human life is infinitely more important than animal life.

    I don’t believe in harming animals without a just cause or reason, but it seems to me that people today care more about animal life than human life.
    If they don't, they're not Catholic.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #18 on: October 11, 2022, 10:53:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on October 08, 2022, 05:53:49 PM
    With the huge amount of degradation of mankind and the constant promotion of legislation by the state protecting animals, I was interested if the Catholics on this forum believe that human life is infinitely more important than animal life.

    I don’t believe in harming animals without a just cause or reason, but it seems to me that people today care more about animal life than human life.
    .
    What's more interesting to me is that this post got no upvotes and one DOWNVOTE??!! :facepalm:
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #19 on: October 11, 2022, 10:59:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on October 11, 2022, 10:53:39 PM
    .
    What's more interesting to me is that this post got no upvotes and one DOWNVOTE??!! :facepalm:
    What's most interesting to me is that someone would ask such a question of supposedly trad Catholics on a supposedly trad catholic forum.  
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #20 on: October 14, 2022, 10:17:07 PM »
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    • I wouldn’t choose an unknown person because they could be a satanic unbeliever.  

    I chose to be with my husband.

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    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #21 on: October 15, 2022, 01:36:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on October 14, 2022, 10:17:07 PM
    I wouldn’t choose an unknown person because they could be a satanic unbeliever. 

    I chose to be with my husband.

    I understand where you are coming from, Viva, but I don't know about that.  After all, Jesus laid down His life for satanic unbelievers as did St Maximillian Kolbe, the North American Martyrs, etc...
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    [fon

    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #22 on: October 15, 2022, 05:12:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on October 14, 2022, 10:17:07 PM
    I wouldn’t choose an unknown person because they could be a satanic unbeliever. 

    I chose to be with my husband.
    It says "live, which" not "live with".

    I hope that clarifies that a human should be chosen over an animal.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #23 on: October 15, 2022, 05:29:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on October 15, 2022, 05:12:44 AM
    It says "live, which" not "live with".

    I hope that clarifies that a human should be chosen over an animal.

    Thanks for clarifying her words. I didn’t get what she meant by choosing her husband. :laugh1:
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #24 on: October 15, 2022, 07:00:21 AM »
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    • Now this is a subject I have lived with for many years of my life. You see I was a mink farmer from 1960 to 1990 and had to deal with them throughout that time. After I quit because of exhaustion I picketed animal rights who were themselves picketing a fur shop.

    It is said, by me, animal rights arrived when Walt Disney presented Mickey Mouse with a human identity. I used to talk with some of these male and female idiots of all ages to try to understand their ideology. And sure enough I found the link when they told me humans evolved from animals. That put animals on the same level as humans. Obviously, none of they were Catholic, probably atheists, or they would have burned the Bible every time they met, especially with all the poor lambs God asked to be sacrificed to Him.

    Other protesters were in the animal rights business based on human cruelty to animals. Mink farming was on the top of their list. The first two mink farms in Ireland were owned by veterinary surgeons. They taught me the business. Last year the vets of Ireland said mink-farming was cruel and got it banned in Ireland as well as it had been in England. The slack of course was taken up in other countries
    so it really made no difference. But there is another story to Animal rights in Ireland. Mink are vicious killers of other creatures. I spent a lifetime avoiding their bite, as that is all they wanted to do to you and for you. They even kill their own kind outside of mating and rearing young. All have to be put in separate cages to avoid such fighting where they have water on tap and food every day of the year. I got one forthright holidays in 30 years. Some mink escaped out of mink farms that are surrounded by wire fencing. They are blamed for wild mink in Ireland. No so, such individual mink would not find others to breed with. In 1960 however, the animal rights crowd released 3,000 mink from a farm and it was their numbers that began the wild mink slaughter of millions of ducks, hens, birds etc in Ireland. So much for animal rights.

    Needless to say, as a mink farmer, I had to reason out the idea of cruelty to animals. Mankind has had to restrict animals to farm them, pigs in pig-sties, horses and cattle in fields, hens in coups and cages, zoos etc. Mink, as a luxury item were singled out. We don't like rich people having mink coats when we haven't any. Animal rights preferred fake fur with their plastics etc. I think we all know the difference between cruelty and what we could call normal treatment of animals. My time showed me there is a difference in animal understanding if you know what I mean. A dog is a far more 'intelligent' animal than a mink. A human can tell the difference in their reaction to things. Animals do not have human intelligence, like knowing they are going in a truck to a slaughterhouse to be killed. As a Catholic I believe God created animals free of such intelligence, feeling pain yes, but not understanding it like a human. If God created them for human consumption He cannot be accused of giving them an awareness of like being locked up in a sty, a cage, a field and death in the end like humans. They have a nature given them by God and live by that. I remember asking a priest at school if it was a sin to be cruel to an animal. He said yes, deliberate cruelty is a sin. I lived by that advice all my life as a mink farmer. 
    Finally, of course an animal is not as important than a human. An animal is important for human life on Earth, yes, but it ends there. While both need souls given by God to live, the human soul is eternal but the animal soul dies after death.
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #25 on: October 15, 2022, 07:34:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 08, 2022, 09:27:47 PM
    In 2012 they merged the World Veterinary Association and the World Medical Association into One Health under the WHO.
    https://www.wma.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MoU_WVA.pdf

    It was a memorandum of understanding, NOT a merger.
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    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #26 on: October 15, 2022, 08:00:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on October 15, 2022, 07:34:36 AM
    It was a memorandum of understanding, NOT a merger.


    They have merged their goals and surveillance operations under the title One Health as seen here:

    https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/index.html

    And here you can see that they are "barcoding" ALL life on earth:
    https://ibol.org/

    Plus:
    Claudistics is now known as the International PhyloCode. It is evolutionary taxonomy based upon clades verified by fossil evidence. In claudistics, humans are categorized in the same clade with reptiles, birds, and tetrapods.  The very concept is troubling, confusing, and a dangerous for a person of faith.  Nevertheless, academia has been implementing this system over the last 10 years in plain sight.

    https://shepherdsheart.life/blogs/news/epic-battle-of-the-alien-alignment?_pos=2&_sid=260160c8a&_ss=r

    http://phylonames.org/code/
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    [fon

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #27 on: October 15, 2022, 08:36:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on October 15, 2022, 08:00:08 AM

    They have merged their goals and surveillance operations under the title One Health as seen here:

    https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/index.html

    The entity "One Health", as depicted on the posted web site, is a part of the United States Center for Disease Control, NOT an international organization, though there are references to international conferences and cooperation.

    I could find NO reference to either the World Veterinary Association or the World Medical Association on the posted web site.  There appears to be no connection that I could find between WVA or WMA and "One Health", neither any reference that they have "merged their goals and surveillance operations", whatever that means.

    Again, the World Veterinary Association or the World Medical Association HAVE NOT merged, that is simple untrue, and the truth ALWAYS matters.

    In addition to having been raised on a working farm with livestock I took my degree in Animal Science and have worked in the livestock industry my entire life.  Zoonosis is a real thing.  Rabies is well recognized example of that.
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #28 on: October 15, 2022, 10:25:41 AM »
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    •  To give clarification to what some might think have been my “cranky” remarks on this thread, certainly humans are a unique creation of God with two attributes not possessed by any other critter: an immortal soul and higher reason.  I describe the latter as “higher reason” as anyone who has ever worked with animals knows that they have some (albeit very limited) capability to learn from experience (or even training, which is experience based), to have their habits conformed by their environment, to communicate in a limited way within their species, and even to show emotion in a limited way at times (though I think that is instinctual rather by formation).  These traits were given them by their creator, Almighty God, and scientific observation informs us that these traits are related to their survivability.   Another way of describing this is that humans have Free Will and animals don’t; their actions are dictated by their instinctual reaction to their environment which is programed by their genetic code, which was given them by God.
     
    In Genesis Chapter 1 verses 24-26 we read:
    24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.
    25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.
    26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.
     
    There is a distinction to be made, in my humble but not uninformed opinion, between “God gave mankind authority to rape and pillage the earth and its plants and animals and fields and streams as he (mankind) sees fit” and the attitude of “Save the baby whales but it is okay to kill the baby humans”.  As I already mentioned, God gave humans a higher reason and emotional capabilities not entirely instinctual (i.e., God gave humans the capability to conform their emotions and actions according to the natural law and revealed truth).  I believe he expects us to use those capabilities, but we always have Free Will, which the animal kingdom does not.  As part of that I believe that God expects we humans to use our higher reason and intellect to employ our powers of observation and the scientific method to recognize that there is a natural (i.e. God created) symbiosis between humans, the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom, and the physical earth of soils, water bodies and streams, topography, and climate.  When humans fail to use their God given intellect to understand this … “Hey, I’m MAN, I’ll pee and poo in the river, clear cut the forests, plow under the vegetation and slaughter (whether by purpose or by degradation of their God created environment) everything that “creepeth, flyeth, or swimith” on the earth” … maybe they are missing a clue.
     


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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Is an animal as important as a human being?
    « Reply #29 on: October 15, 2022, 12:32:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on October 15, 2022, 10:25:41 AM
    To give clarification to what some might think have been my “cranky” remarks on this thread, certainly humans are a unique creation of God with two attributes not possessed by any other critter: an immortal soul and higher reason.  I describe the latter as “higher reason” as anyone who has ever worked with animals knows that they have some (albeit very limited) capability to learn from experience (or even training, which is experience based), to have their habits conformed by their environment, to communicate in a limited way within their species, and even to show emotion in a limited way at times (though I think that is instinctual rather by formation).  These traits were given them by their creator, Almighty God, and scientific observation informs us that these traits are related to their survivability.  Another way of describing this is that humans have Free Will and animals don’t; their actions are dictated by their instinctual reaction to their environment which is programed by their genetic code, which was given them by God.
     
    In Genesis Chapter 1 verses 24-26 we read:
    24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.
    25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and cattle, and every thing that creepeth on the earth after its kind. And God saw that it was good.
    26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

    There is a distinction to be made, in my humble but not uninformed opinion, between “God gave mankind authority to rape and pillage the earth and its plants and animals and fields and streams as he (mankind) sees fit” and the attitude of “Save the baby whales but it is okay to kill the baby humans”.  As I already mentioned, God gave humans a higher reason and emotional capabilities not entirely instinctual (i.e., God gave humans the capability to conform their emotions and actions according to the natural law and revealed truth).  I believe he expects us to use those capabilities, but we always have Free Will, which the animal kingdom does not.  As part of that I believe that God expects we humans to use our higher reason and intellect to employ our powers of observation and the scientific method to recognize that there is a natural (i.e. God created) symbiosis between humans, the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom, and the physical earth of soils, water bodies and streams, topography, and climate.  When humans fail to use their God given intellect to understand this … “Hey, I’m MAN, I’ll pee and poo in the river, clear cut the forests, plow under the vegetation and slaughter (whether by purpose or by degradation of their God created environment) everything that “creepeth, flyeth, or swimith” on the earth” … maybe they are missing a clue.
     

    Well put Moneil, deserves a thumb up.
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